Dot abilities would be broken if they applied the full 40% rylai slow for their entire duration

TeemoXNidalee·Oct 5, 2016·88 votes·5,142 views

But an ability with a half second cooldown (that is pretty much a dot) applying it fully is fine.

96 Comments

Sahn UzalOct 5, 201655 votes

'course it is.

Did you seriously think Melees should get a chance to play the game?

Malicious MetalOct 5, 201618 votes

I always thought Rylais on Morde seems a bit unfair.

Then I realized he's melee, needs to get into 175 range to really do stuff and has no other forms of cc or mobility in his kit.

Seriously though, I hate going against a Cassio, there are better things to ban and she's not played that often but seriously, I don't want her anywhere near my gaming experience.

Especially not top lane!

TheHurricaneGamrOct 5, 20164 votes

Sounds like a item 3116 rather than a Cassiopeia issue.

Malicious MetalOct 5, 201616 votes

There's a difference between Champions who need rylais and those who wouldn't need it in order for their kit to function properly

Raid Boss MordeOct 5, 20167 votes

This ^

A lot of people don't understand that most of the meta champions that are using Rylai's don't NEED it.

Cassiopeia is ranged and has her strong AoE slow field with grounded, her Q gives her movement speed, and her ult is an AoE stun

Malzahar is ranged, has a silence, and a suppress.

AurelionSol has an AoE stun, and a knock back for peel (which pushes them into your passive W)

Viktor has his AoE slow/stun to keep them in his ult and E detonation, and movement speed burst on his Q

Rumble has a short CD slow, a strong slow on his AoE ult, and a burst of movement speed

Other champions who use Rylai's:

has a stun and a slow on his ult (situational)

Fiddlesticks has his Fear and Silence, and his passive movement speed (kind of)

Swain has his AoE root and a slow on his Q

Obviously not every champion is listed, but the ones here use Rylai's frequently but don't NEED it. They have other means to catch up and/or keep in enemies in place, while some champions (SOME, but you know who) need the item to function.

Baron PerenoldeOct 6, 20162 votes

I'd argue that Rylai's is core on Brand. Sorc, Liandry's and Rylai's has always been my go-to rush on Brand for a long time now.

Raid Boss MordeOct 6, 20162 votes

The thing is, he doesn't need it. That was the whole point of my post. He already has a stun and now a slow, even if situational. He is completely fine without it.

magic poleOct 6, 20161 votes

he is squishy and has no escape,

his only CC is an unreliable skillshot that needs to first be activated via his other abilities, the ideal activation being his other unreliable skillshot.

He needs the HP since he is easy to kill and needs the slow since he has little CC and is immobile.

TyrekGoldenspearOct 7, 20161 votes

THIS.

I am so glad I found another Brand main on the boards.

Tell me, what runes do you run? Have you considered a CDR build?

As in delaying the Torment to buy a Morrellos, then getting the hourglass to get 40% CDR with 10% from runes?

magic poleOct 7, 20161 votes

haha Im a jungle main. Although I've been discovering mid is actually probably my strongest role :/ so I think i should switch over maybe.

I have played a bit of brand jungle actually. It's totally viable and actually pretty fucking decent. You can be vulnerable to invades, but his clear is effortless once you pick up your smite item (not even the enchant). And his ganks...well he usually brings more damage than the player he is ganking for :D of course you are often subjected to the lamentations of your teammates for picking brand jungle.

that passive though...you start 1 shotting camps pretty early on and the jungle enchant keeps your mana decent, still need a RoA or morello though probably

anyway, my mids I just AP quint/ magic pen reds/ scaling HP or armor yellow depending/ and then typically 6 scaling cdr blues with 3 scaling AP blues...since I will often pick up early MR via item 3001 ...if I'm not getting abyssal and need MR (vs. Leblanc Syndra ), then i need the flat MR blues.

my builds are pretty variable tbh. Some games ill build item 3027 if i get an early need, or if i just need the survivability against a high damage comp.

But ya, item 3165 is probably the item i would buy most often. I think CDR is strong on brand, even if you only hit 20 or 30%. And of course the mana. It just lacks the HP brand desperately needs imo so it is a definite trade off you need to think about. Perhaps start with your Rylai instead of rushing morello.

though 10% runes, item 3001 item 3157 item 3158 would get you the 40 too. I think i'd prefer the morello though, since brand is all about DAMAGE

TyrekGoldenspearOct 7, 20161 votes

You know i really want to try Brand Jungle now...

magic poleOct 7, 20161 votes

first clear is pretty tough but after that it's not hard. gets straight ez after an item or 2

ap quint / attack speed red / armor yellow / ap blue

item 1410 > item 3027 > item 3158

;)

TheHurricaneGamrOct 6, 201615 votes

As a person who plays AurelionSol , he needs that item 3116 . Even if it gave only 40 AP, he'd still want it, just on account of how drastically his playstyle changes after he picks up that item.

Raid Boss MordeOct 6, 20164 votes

He's one of the few there that I will agree with that needs it. I feel like they could balance him a lot better if Rylai's wasn't in the game, because right now, they're balancing champions (like Aurelion) around this item. I know if they were to remove Rylai's (which I highly doubt), they would compensate Sol drastically.

Supreme Senpai69Oct 6, 20164 votes

Aurelion Sol is useless until he gets it lol. Swain needs it because he builds off tank and needs the AP/HP, and the slows help when he builds a Liandry's. Same with Brand. Pretty core items on them I'd argue.

Civet10Oct 6, 20161 votes

I think that malz, sol, viktor, and brand definitely need it. Malz lets his e slow so his voidlings can stick to them, sol doesnt really need explaining, viktors slow has a long cooldown and is only really for going all in, and brand can constantly reapply it with passive, making his combo, including his stun, much easier to hit.

Baron of BreadOct 6, 20161 votes

Malzahar doesn't really need the slow for his voidlings. They have a 451 move speed and get 100% bonus move speed when moving towards enemies marked by Malefic Visions or Nether Grasp. I won't say it isn't core for him, he really wants it otherwise his kiting is a lot harder and he kind of needs the health, but I don't think he needs Rylai's.

Raid Boss MordeOct 6, 20161 votes

My main, besides Morde (so secondary?) is Malz. I rarely built Rylai's on him, because he never really needed it. Before his rework, all you needed was your ult to keep them in place while they died to the rest of your skills. Now that he's a lot weaker (damage-wise), Rylai's is better for sticking to enemies. However, it's still not really necessary as long as you have your ult.

Rylai's just makes Malz overbearing now.

Bouncemaster ZacOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EFpZifPJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-05T18:12:58.727+0000)

I always thought Rylais on Morde seems a bit unfair.

Then I realized he's melee, needs to get into 175 range to really do stuff and has no other forms of cc or mobility in his kit.

Seriously though, I hate going against a Cassio, there are better things to ban and she's not played that often but seriously, I don't want her anywhere near my gaming experience.

Especially not top lane!

Also consider though: His ult applies it for... what, 30 full seconds? And then his ghosts which scale with both his stats and the enemies' stats also apply it when they auto. Consider: a full build Caitlyn applying a 40% slow 2.1 times per second at 600 range because it's "single target spell" damage. And then there's the dragon.

Malicious MetalOct 6, 20161 votes

10 seconds actually

And it's coded as a summon meaning it only slows for 20%

Bouncemaster ZacOct 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EFpZifPJ,comment-id=0000000000030001,timestamp=2016-10-06T09:08:59.984+0000)

10 seconds actually

And it's coded as a summon meaning it only slows for 20%

That makes more sense. Still, when an adc is applying that slow it's effectively permanent. As a tank main, feelsbadman.

FortisDominusOct 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EFpZifPJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-05T18:12:58.727+0000)

I always thought Rylais on Morde seems a bit unfair.

Then I realized he's melee, needs to get into 175 range to really do stuff and has no other forms of cc or mobility in his kit.

Seriously though, I hate going against a Cassio, there are better things to ban and she's not played that often but seriously, I don't want her anywhere near my gaming experience.

Especially not top lane!

Im a little bit of a sadist, I like playing shit like kennen and cass top. I also main rengar in the jungle and I played a shit ton of ryze before his most recent rework. Does wanting to tilt the enemy team as hard as possible with the most frustrating champions for the laughs make me look like an asshole?

Civet10Oct 6, 20162 votes

A little bit, but to be fair i also love kennen and cass so i cant talk :P

RalanrOct 6, 20162 votes

Yeah, but you're honest about it.

LovelleOct 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EFpZifPJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-05T15:07:26.902+0000)

'course it is.

Did you seriously think Melees should get a chance to play the game?

Riven, Yasuo, and Ekko do not care about Rylai's slow. It's champs like Udyr, Trundle, and Garen that are hurt the most.

Malicious MetalOct 5, 20167 votes

Udyr less so than the other two though

GhostOfShrimpmasOct 5, 20163 votes

Sure, as long as they have multiple dashes.

Ariel the CruelOct 5, 20162 votes

Akali Blitzcrank Diana Ekko Fizz LeeSin MasterYi Olaf Riven Shaco

All Melee. All have a way around Rylai's. At least Cass doesn't get a free dash with every Auto Attack and a slow. Kalista

Raid Boss MordeOct 5, 20161 votes

Mordekaiser Chogath Illaoi Yorick Nasus Not all!

crippler38Oct 6, 20161 votes

I'm fairly certain that ariel was mentioning some melees that don't have a problem with slows. Juggernauts and other immobile melees are of course exceptions to this.

Ariel the CruelOct 6, 20161 votes

Specifically, I was mentioning melees that have a way around them. Not necessarily ones who can ignore them (Just Yi and Olaf).

crippler38Oct 6, 20161 votes

isn't that dash effected by slows?

Ariel the CruelOct 6, 20161 votes

Yes and no. Frequency is determined by AS. Length is determined by boots. Duration is determined by MS.

crippler38Oct 6, 20161 votes

doesn't that technically mean her attack speed is slowed by normal slows since she has to dash for longer?

TeCoolMageOct 6, 20161 votes

fairly certain she can interrupt her dash with more autos, but it end up covering less distance

crippler38Oct 6, 20161 votes

I dunno I heard more attack speed means she finishes her dash faster since it's part of the windup and slows worsen this since she does her wind-down slower, I might just be insane since I suck at her (tried her a few games since her kit looks fun, did terrible and I'm bad enough at adc)

Ariel the CruelOct 6, 20161 votes

Short version: Kalista's passive is complicated.

KeìronOct 6, 20162 votes

master yi is really vulnerable to rilay.

RalanrOct 6, 20161 votes

Outside of his ult, yes. But then so is Olaf.

kile147Oct 6, 20162 votes

If Yi gets into a fight without his ult he deserves to die.

Ariel the CruelOct 6, 20161 votes

Ult.

Civet10Oct 6, 20161 votes

I wouldnt count kallistas slow as one of her strengths, as if shes playing kallista right shell only rend to kill/last hit, except some specific situations, so the slow doesnt really affect TOO much

Ariel the CruelOct 6, 20161 votes

I admit: It's more icing than cake.

SlntReaperOct 5, 20168 votes

What is up with the Cass circlejerk?

DrCyanideOct 5, 201624 votes

Combination of things.

The hate for item 3116 is strong, but not many mage players want the item dumpstered back to never seen status. They'd rather pin the problems on the champions best able to abuse it, which are those who can rapidly apply spell effects, such as Azir and Cassiopeia . Since Azir is already dead to most players, the blame defaults to the next contestant, .

Add to that a high Worlds pick rate, and you've got the perfect scapegoat.

Baron PerenoldeOct 6, 20162 votes

Both could use work, but it should start with Rylai's before anything happens to Cass. Otherwise, it's the same cycle; both get nerfed, then everybody realizes that the item was the main problem but Cass gets no compensation and returns to the gutter.

kile147Oct 6, 20162 votes

The issue is that Riot specifically lowered AP across the board with the justification that AP items will give more utility. Rylais is too ubiquitous on mages right now, but if you just nerf it or make it worse on mages they end up worse off than before Riot touched them in the first place.

Any changed to Rylais would have to be coupled with other itemization changes. Maybe they will finally do something about Liandries

AeszarckOct 5, 20161 votes

To be fair, Karthus can do this too and his spell counts as single target.

Is anyone complaining about Karthus?