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Lets revive Atmas

Critmaster Garen··91 votes·6,148 views

since its removal there has been a certain hole in itemization. first of all, infinity edge is now the only item that grants critical strike chance without attack speed attached. there is also no item anymore that grants a stat combination of armor and ad for fighters. even though it was a nieche item, in some situations it was still nice that it existed.

here are my 2 takes on the matter:

option 1) - the old item with a slight change

the main problem with the original item was the midgame power spike it granted. it was incredibly cost effective even without health items to synergize with it, due to how the passive scaled off base health. so the solution should be rather obvious. have it scale with bonus health instead of total health to shift its effectiveness more into lategame, after the user has actually built some health items.

item 1031 + item 1018 = http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090010/leagueoflegends/images/3/3b/Atma%27s_Impaler_item.png

  • 45 armor
  • 18% critical strike chance Unique passive : You gain attack damage equal to 3,5% of your bonus health.

(up to 70 ad on a 4k health champion. comparable to item 3156 )

this would roughly amount to the same ad value as the 2% maximum health passive used to grant with the same amount of health items, while it would grant very little to no extra damage with the item alone. meaning an atmas rush wouldnt have the same effect as it used to have, while it kept its lategame effectiveness.

option 2) - same stat combination, new item

this is one idea i rather like. one of the main concerns, that made atmas such a nieche item in the past was, that while a lot of fighters would like the ad and armor combination on the item, they had little use for the critical strike chance, as the amount was not high enough to be reliable. so instead we could build wicked hatchet into the item. in principle, this would mean that even with an overall low critical stike chance, the item would still be effective. you would only need enough crit % to crit once in 3 seconds, to gain the full advantage of the passive. larger amounts of crit wont necessarily make the item work better. this means it would remain a good fighter item even with the crit chance attached.

item 3122 + item 3093 + item 1031 = http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090010/leagueoflegends/images/3/3b/Atma%27s_Impaler_item.png

  • 45 attack damage
  • 45 Armor
  • 20% critical strike chance

Unique Passive: Critical strikes causes your target to bleed for an additional 120 magic damage over 3 seconds.

(possibly level scaling of the passive similar to sunfire cape instead)

this would also create a pretty good synergy with item 3078 bringing fighters up to a total of 30% crit chance. which should be enough to make full use of its passive.

155 Comments

CrazedPorcupine30 votes

And this would bring about the rise of the old Frozen Trinity Atmogs metagolem again.

There's a reason Atmogs was nerfed to hell. It synergized too well with other bruiser items.

With the rise of Cinderhulk, this is a terrible idea.

BEHOLD THE NEW METAGOLEM! item 3717 item 3022 item 3078 item 3083 "ATMAS" item 3111

Overall an average of about +2500 bonus HP, Slow on auto, haste on auto, about 30% crit chance, and close to 150 (if not more) of each resistance at level 18 with melee fighters with armor and scaling MR/lvl runes.

I'm sorry, but I'd much rather NOT deal with fighters that can do that again.

Critmaster Garen5 votes

{quoted}

And this would bring about the rise of the old Frozen Trinity Atmogs metagolem again.

There's a reason Atmogs was nerfed to hell. It synergized too well with other bruiser items.

With the rise of Cinderhulk, this is a terrible idea.

BEHOLD THE NEW METAGOLEM! item 3717 item 3022 item 3078 item 3083 "ATMAS" item 3111

Overall an average of about +2500 bonus HP, Slow on auto, haste on auto, about 30% crit chance, and close to 150 (if not more) of each resistance at level 18 with melee fighters with armor and scaling MR/lvl runes.

I'm sorry, but I'd much rather NOT deal with fighters that can do that again.

since then, warmorgs lost about 400 health. and there is this item 3153

since the introduction of liandries and bork, health stacking alone isnt really an option anymore.

[{quoted}](name=Icy Auron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvMktx4E,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-18T19:10:34.970+0000)

The passive alone gave ~50 AD at full build. Having this on top of the 30-40 provided from a pickaxe would make it at least as strong as IE, which would be absurd for a defensive item.

it wasnt purely a defensive item. think of it as a counterpart to item 3156 with a time scaling ad value. similar to how rod of ages becomes stronger over the course of the game.

the endgame stats of the item never caused a problem. it was mainly the midgame power spike the item gave. since it scaled off base health, upon buying it was already incredibly cost effective. having it scale with bonus health instead would make an atmas rush not a viable option anymore.

and with the existence of bork the old meta golem wouldnt be nearly as effective anymore.

CrazedPorcupine4 votes

yeah well, with the armor from runes/masteries and Atma's that still close to 60% or higher physical damage reduction. And BotRK won't help you when the enemy fighter can close the gap, and slow you 100% of the time and haste themselves.

Unless your entire team starts focusing down the fighter (which is hard when they have nearly 4.5k HP and moderate resistances along with crap tons of bonus AD and crits) You're going to die, and die fast.

With that build above, Atma's would grant close to 90 AD. The rest of the items would grant another 60 AD.

That's 150 BONUS AD. That's HUGE.

Level 18, 4.5k HP, 165 of each resistance, Vi decides to come ULTING Into you. There is NOTHING you can do to burst her down. her Ult is going to deal close to 800 damage, her Q's+Sheen Procs are going to deal even MORE damage. Now, with the autos, she's moving faster, and You're slowed by a crapton. Even if you BotRK her, she's still able to charge up her dash and get to you and kill you. Unless your team uses all of their CC on her and kills her, you are going to die and there's nothing you can do about it.

Now imagine J4. He E-Qs in and Ults. That's a huge burst of damage, he shields for a sheen proc and manages to crit you dealing dealing close to 700 damage because of sheen+Crit auto. You must now flash away if you want to live, but by that time, the rest of the enemy team has focused down the rest of your team.

This is why fighters were so broken back in season 2. The Meta-golem was so gamebreakingly OP that you absolutely could not beat those champs.

LordGeovanni3 votes

that is really small amout of damage and resistance for almost any thing current

Akesgeroth2 votes

Except the game has changed a lot since. Armor penetration has gotten far more effective.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Except the game has changed a lot since. Armor penetration has gotten far more effective.

both, armor penetration and % health damage are much more common. thats why i think even something like the old metagolem wouldnt be problematic.

even the phage passive (on triforce) itself changed, granting movement speed instead of slowing the target. a build that involves massive health stacking right now profits the adc more than the tank, as he can lifesteal a crazy amount off the tank.

the existence of bork itself will probably prevent over the top health + atmas builds.

doublelift fg7 votes

people keep upvoting post like this when liandry is becoming a monster and bloodrazor became item 3153

EDIT: YOU DIDNT UNDERSTAND, BLOODRAZOR COST 4200 GOLD WHILE BRK COSTS NOW 3200 and it applies lifesteal, HAVE AN AMIZING ACTIVE and it is physical

It Hertz When IP3 votes

Bloodrazor scaled off % of target's MAX hp... having a % curr. hp isn't as bad.

Critmaster Garen13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvMktx4E,comment-id=000200020001,timestamp=2015-06-18T22:09:03.797+0000)

Bloodrazor scaled off % of target's MAX hp... having a % curr. hp isn't as bad.

bloodrazor dealt 5% max health magic damage and didnt apply lifesteal.

{quoted}

Easily the worst idea I've seen so far. At 4k health (Which is average for a tank) you'd be receiving 140 bonus damage. I thought the trade off with being a tank was that you lost damage. If you give a tank damage then we might as well eliminate Bruisers and just bring tanks instead. At 3000k you're still looking at a nice fat 105 bonus damage. You're essentially getting two free BF swords for no cost. You get to be ludicrously tanky and deal lots of damage.

Within release all AD scaling Tank/Bruisers would become unstoppable. Hello JarvanIV Vi Meta, and a nice welcome to Darius Hecarim Aatrox DrMundo Nasus Shyvana Trundle Sion Udyr XinZhao Yorick Zac

Who will not be near impossible to kill, and still retain massive amounts of damage.

please people, read carefully.

BONUS hp. not TOTAL hp. huge difference. i even pointed it out in the op. 4k health which only very few champs manage to reach with 4 items would amount to an absolute maxiumum of 70 ad from the atmas. you have about 2k base health, so only the 2k health from items, runes, masteries factor into the passive.

this is not crazier than getting a maw, as a 5th item on a tank, which grants 60 attack damage and 40 mr without the shield or the addition ad from the passive alone.

OyddAWqJ5r8 votes

Doesn't matter. Offensive stat boosts that scale with defensive stats are simply broken. They cannot be introduced in any form other than underpowered. Just look at any stat conversion passive in the game that involves a defensive stat becoming offense. They are all so miniscule that it hardly matters. It's just enough to make it not a bad choice to build a certain way or to force the champion to buy health to perform optimally.

Build damage to get damage. Build Defense to get defense. This is how it should always be.

Critmaster Garen10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvMktx4E,comment-id=00020002000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-18T23:22:37.360+0000)

Doesn't matter. Offensive stat boosts that scale with defensive stats are simply broken. They cannot be introduced in any form other than underpowered. Just look at any stat conversion passive in the game that involves a defensive stat becoming offense. They are all so miniscule that it hardly matters. It's just enough to make it not a bad choice to build a certain way or to force the champion to buy health to perform optimally.

Build damage to get damage. Build Defense to get defense. This is how it should always be.

you still dont get it.

i bet, if there were just 60 ad attached to the item directly, people wouldnt be flipping tables as much as with the %health passive. even though it would do exactly the same thing in the end.

please tell me how an item granting up to 70 ad, 45 armor, and 18% crit is more op than maw. the only effect that the % health passive has, is that you dont get the ad right off the bat, and that it restricts it to a specific group of champions who are waeving health items into their builds. you start out with something like 30 (or close to 0 if the scaling is with bonus hp) and only end up with a comparable ad value to maw after like 35 minutes when youve built some health items.

this is why the endgame stats of the item were never a problem. only atma rushes were, due to the scaling off base health. which made the item one of the most cost effective in the game by 20 minutes. if you changed it to scale off bonus health, atmas rushes would be as ineffective as lichbane rushes before it had base damage in the passive.

OyddAWqJ5r9 votes

No, you don't get it.

If there were just 60 AD on it then ofcourse noone would flip tables because it'd be accessible to everyone and not just tanks and off-tanks. It wouldn't do the exact same thing because now the person that simply wants AD and Armor can get it without having to stack health.

And then please tell me this: When did I ever say your Atma's suggestion was OP? I didn't. I said defense -> offense conversions are broken.

The Atma's you are suggesting is downright worthless. It's completely underpowered to the point where it would never be worth getting ever. Atma's is also far less binary when it scales off base HP because if you are ahead you can buy health faster which means you are getting damage faster as well. Which is pretty BS. But ofcourse like I said before, on your version of it even if you did get ahead and stack health faster the rate at which you are gaining AD from this it is so miniscule that it makes it downright worthless unless it's extremely cheap to build.

doublelift fg4 votes

60 AD THE HORROR

Meeks0112 votes

Look at Painted Celt's idea, Ruin King and Liandry's would be a massive counter and the bonus is quite useless at low health.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Then it becomes an absolutely worthless pick. Why pick up an item that becomes worse when you get low. If Atma's get's put in like that, the AD bonus at 100% hp would need to be so outrageously high to be worth picking up, that any AD champ that would build it, would basically wait for an opening, then dive in, unload everything and hope they killed the target.

I mean, Vi would wait for an opening, Ult in, and hope to blow you up before you could reduce her HP low enough that Atma's wasn't useful. If it ends up being too low, then poke comps ruin the item and make the item useless because of poking around teamfights and objectives.

Overall, Defensive-Offensive stats will always be either completely bonkers OP, or so weak that noone wants them.

Meeks0114 votes

Why pick up Blade of the Ruin King if it gets worse as your enemy's get low?

Overall, Defensive-Offensive stats will always be either completely bonkers OP, or so weak that noone wants them.

Lifesteal is essentially defensive. It scales extremely well with offensive (AD) and makes you really fucking hard to kill. I was a Volibear at full build attacking a Tristana and she was healing back more health than I was dealing damage. It's like defensive stats but a hell of a lot better.

CrazedPorcupine2 votes

Then you should've build Thornmail. There are ways to counter lifesteal, and it's pretty easy. Lifesteal scales with AD, but is reduced by the target's armor. Thornmail does 30% of the target's damage before reduction by resistances back to the target, essentially negating all lifesteal under 30%.

Meeks0113 votes

The base magic resist of everyone reduces the damage return to around 22%, so they're still healing 8% or 80 health per attack. Also, their Blade of the Ruin King lifesteals from the current health damage and that ISN'T affected by thornmail. So that's like 200 average extra damage per hit before armor that isn't affected by thornmail and is also lifestolen. Building tanky is actually a bad thing because you're just there to get them a nice large health pool to heal from.

CrazedPorcupine2 votes

actually, Thornmail will return damage from almost all on-hit effects. this includes Sheen procs and BotRK %current HP damage. since Thornmail gives 100 Armor, and most melee champs can hit 200 Armor easy with runes/masteries/base armor + Thornmail, this means that they'll take minimal damage from BotRK passive, and also reduce the lifestealing of the opponent.

Thornmail damage return is calculated BEFORE resistances, so it will return 30% of the damage that would be done to a minion, and Lifesteal only applies AFTER resistances are calculated, so a target with 200 armor will take 75% damage reduction from all physical sources, cutting the amount of HP gained from a single auto by a sizable chunk.

Meeks0113 votes

Then how am I taking 3000 damage in 10 seconds with 400 armor whenever I'm fighting the ADC?

DeusVult4 votes

Yes, but that build costs a TON of money and only really becomes effecient for Atmas after about 5-6K of items. Also, the lack of any resistances in that build makes it balanced by item 3153 item 3151.

The only 2 champs that that is even somewhat viable on are Volibear and Shyvana

WolfBV3 votes

%HP Damage. item 3151 item 3153

Amumu Brand DrMundo Ekko Evelynn Fizz Gnar Gragas Kalista KogMaw Mordekaiser Poppy Sejuani Shyvana Sion Trundle Varus Vayne Vi Zac

And other champs that can build the Liandrys, BotRK and champs that do damage based on enemy health that I may have missed. Don't think all that hp should be too much of a problem.

Painted Celt9 votes

I would also like to see Atma's make a return. I mained Sion back before his rework and had Atma's as the core of my tank/bruiser build.

Just a thought, what if the passive gave attack damage based on current health? Sort of like a reverse Maw of Malmortus passive. It would provide an incentive to attack a tank carrying Atma's in order to cut down their damage output. That would be especially useful on champions like MundoDrMundo and GarenGaren , who lack tools beyond their damage to draw enemy focus while tanking. It would also make %currentHP damage, like Liandry's and BotRK, an especially strong countermeasure to Atma's bonus.

Atma's Impaler http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090010/leagueoflegends/images/3/3b/Atma%27s_Impaler_item.png "Mini Impaler Item" (Read below; 1,600g) + item 3093 (800g) + 900g Total Cost: 3,300g (100g more than Maw of Malmortus)

+40 Attack Damage +50 Armor +20% Critical Chance

UNIQUE Passive: You gain attack damage equal to 1% of your **current **health. UNIQUE Passive - Executioner's Calling: Critically striking an enemy champion inflicts Grievous Wounds for 2 seconds. (Grievous Wounds reduces incoming healing and regeneration effects by 50%.)

That would scale pretty nicely with a high health build, but you would start losing AD as soon as you began to take damage. With the effects/stats shown above, this would also be a sort of simultaneous reintroduction of the Executioner's Calling item.

If Atma's were supposed to be some sort of parallel item to Malmortus, I could also imagine Riot adding some sort of "mini impaler" to match Hexdrinker.

"Mini Impaler Item" item 1037 (875g) + item 1029 (300g) + 425g Total Cost: 1,600g (150g more than Hexdrinker)

+30 Attack Damage +20 Armor

UNIQUE Passive: You gain attack damage equal to 0.75% of your **current **health.

Meeks0114 votes

Yes, this is a brilliant idea. People can't complain about no counter and it's a really solid item. Would be really nice to help tanks with farming, as they're the only ones who can't instantly clear waves with one ability.

Also, Volibear has a large amount of attack speed but you're supposed to build full tank so the attack speed is mostly wasted. Atma's would make a few abilities more viable.

BluePolarizer2 votes

That's a great idea. I'd actually make it a core item on Hecarim Garen JarvanIV Vi Shyvana and bruiser builds of Rengar Fiora MonkeyKing

doublelift fg2 votes

most amazing idea, it solves the problem to counterplay; but i think it's already ok, brk is better than bloodrazor because it has an active,applies lifesteal and it is physical, but your idea is good

MadDoughnutz3 votes

The main issue with Atma's is that it gave damage for building tank, something that Riot has said explicitly in the past that they do not like and don't think can be balanced healthily(This includes Vlad, who Riot have admitted is one of their worst designed champions). Not because it had crit chance. Anybody remember league of Atmogs and Frozen Mallet?

Some could argue that this is the same with Jax Ult and Riven E, but both of those are temporary effects and give tank for building damage.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

The main issue with Atma's is that it gave damage for building tank, something that Riot has said explicitly in the past that they do not like and don't think can be balanced healthily(This includes Vlad, who Riot have admitted is one of their worst designed champions). Not because it had crit chance. Anybody remember league of Atmogs and Frozen Mallet?

Some could argue that this is the same with Jax Ult and Riven E, but both of those are temporary effects and give tank for building damage.

nope. that was never an issue.

all the problems with the item came from an early atmas rush. riot said, the item was so cost effective very early on in the game, that it basically countered itself. the only way to beat a bruiser with atmas in lane was to get atmas yourself. this is easily fixed by having it scale with bonus health instead of already granting ad off base health.

the thing with the defense scaling was a problem of the community. and it was misguided. if you ignore the health scaling of the passive, all the item ever did was grant a stat combination of ad, crit and armor. and the ad value increased over the course of the game, as the champion gained health/lvl and built health items. thats not much different from rod of ages passive, or archangels passive.

you migh aswell have replaced the health scaling ad with time scaling ad, reaching 60 ad over the course of 10 minutes and it would barely have made a difference. the total values into lategame werent actually the problem. it was just too effective by 20 minutes already on its own.

doublelift fg3 votes

that was in s2 when we had really nothing to fight them. bloodrazor used to cost 4200 gold, and liandry didn't exist

Khell DarkWolf3 votes

The 2nd option looks better.

It should be a crit chance + armor item with an unique passive that doesn't involve getting AD from Health.

So the wicked hatchet passive sounds better as in a step in the right direction, but still it might be picked up on ADC's.

What if the passive was more defensive oriented with the base stats more half and half but offensive based like before?

Example: What if your crit chance gave bonus armor.

Or your bonus HP gave bonus armor? Or your bonus armor gave extra crit chance?

Shield Villain3 votes

Easily the worst idea I've seen so far. At 4k health (Which is average for a tank) you'd be receiving 140 bonus damage. I thought the trade off with being a tank was that you lost damage. If you give a tank damage then we might as well eliminate Bruisers and just bring tanks instead. At 3000k you're still looking at a nice fat 105 bonus damage. You're essentially getting two free BF swords for no cost. You get to be ludicrously tanky and deal lots of damage.

Within release all AD scaling Tank/Bruisers would become unstoppable. Hello JarvanIV Vi Meta, and a nice welcome to Darius Hecarim Aatrox DrMundo Nasus Shyvana Trundle Sion Udyr XinZhao Yorick Zac

Who will not be near impossible to kill, and still retain massive amounts of damage.

Sasogwa6 votes

{quoted}

Easily the worst idea I've seen so far. At 4k health (Which is average for a tank) you'd be receiving 140 bonus damage. I thought the trade off with being a tank was that you lost damage. If you give a tank damage then we might as well eliminate Bruisers and just bring tanks instead. At 3000k you're still looking at a nice fat 105 bonus damage. You're essentially getting two free BF swords for no cost. You get to be ludicrously tanky and deal lots of damage.

Within release all AD scaling Tank/Bruisers would become unstoppable. Hello JarvanIV Vi Meta, and a nice welcome to Darius Hecarim Aatrox DrMundo Nasus Shyvana Trundle Sion Udyr XinZhao Yorick Zac

Who will not be near impossible to kill, and still retain massive amounts of damage.

At lvl 18, your base health is around 2k. Having 4k health means you have 2k bonus health. That makes 70 bonus AD assuming Atma gives AD based on 3.5% bonus health. Now let's say you have item 3153 and you hit a 4k HP target. Wait it's current health, ok so let's say in average he'll have 2k HP. You deal 160 bonus dmg/auto, lifesteal off it and have bonus attack speed. You don't get 45 armor but well, the trade off isn't that bad, is it? 45 armor seems a bit weak there. Even if you hit a carry with half that, you still have more damage than with atma's.

Champion Skin4 votes

Zac? Really? He would never build Atma's because he has no AD scalings and his E and R prevents him from auto attacking....

Jingerbeardman3 votes

I do think some kind of armor AD item should be reintroduced to the game but anything like atmas is not the answer.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvMktx4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-06-18T18:40:23.024+0000)

item 3122 + item 3093 + item 1031 = http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090010/leagueoflegends/images/3/3b/Atma%27s_Impaler_item.png

  • 45 attack damage
  • 45 Armor
  • 20% critical strike chance

Unique Passive: Critical strikes causes your target to bleed for an additional 120 magic damage over 3 seconds.

** Critical strikes causes your target to bleed for an additional 120 magic damage**

Garen : !!!

Judgment can critically strike

Garen : !!!!!!!!

120 magic damage

Garen : I! AM! A WIZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/2miSqpc.jpg

Icy Auron2 votes

The entire problem with Atma's previously was that it gave crit chance. Fighters don't want this stat at all. It needs to take a pickaxe and a cloth armor, and be done with it. Throw a nerfed version of the old passive back on it and call it a day.

It's all about target audience.

NazZomLord3 votes

Gangplank

Wînter Fox2 votes

All they have to do is gives us AD + Armor and slap a new non-scaling passive on that bad boy. I suggested grevious wounds but got downvoted to oblivion- probably by Mundo mains

SmolButSas3y2 votes

What i think would be awsome is if atmas worked for ap, imagine who good it could be on vlad

Silents4292 votes

At about 3000 HP the AD you got from the item surpasses a BF sword. Add this with the tanky stats and you have a very unhealthy item for this game.

And you want to buff it's passive along with it? Seriously?

Critmaster Garen5 votes

{quoted}

At about 3000 HP the AD you got from the item surpasses a BF sword. Add this with the tanky stats and you have a very unhealthy item for this game.

And you want to buff it's passive along with it? Seriously?

check again. the difference is that it doesnt scale off base health anymore.

at 3000 hp at lvl 18, that would mean you have roughly 1000 hp from items and other sources. which means this version of atmas would grant 35 ad. and only after youve built health items.

Silents4291 votes

Which is still a hefty amount, adding on to the other stats, along with 3000 being low for some bruisers, while tanks commonly surpass 4500HP late game. A tank with 4000 HP like Sejuani for example would get 70 AD from this item.

This item is simply can't be balanced with a passive like that.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Which is still a hefty amount, adding on to the other stats, along with 3000 being low for some bruisers, while tanks commonly surpass 4500HP late game.

This item is simply can't be balanced with a passive like that.

tanks only surpass 4500 health with actual 5 health items. and 3000 health isnt low for bruisers. 3000 to 3500 is common. that is again, minus the slot for the atmas itself.

BiggestNoob3ver6 votes

??? Why would you go Atmas Sejuani. Do you go Maw of Malmortius Sejuani because it can give up to 60+35 AD and decent MR(40)? Not to mention the shield. Is it broken for making you tanky and giving you a lot of resistance to magic damage through the shield + 40MR?

Yes Atmas would have high potential AD but you'd have to buy it on someone who wants AD for it to be worthwhile. Not many full tanks want AD. There are a few of course. (like perhaps a full tank J4, Sion or Rek Sai)

Technically it could be balanced, but the amount of effort might not be worthwhile.

Hawkefire2 votes

I like Option 2 the most. Would give a lot of fighters some more variety for their builds and allows them to actually have some crit chance. I also don't think that the item iteration proposed would work very well on ADCs (which is one of the chief fears associated with atmas), and also since it doesn't have the %max hp as additional AD then it reduces the chance that metagolem can arise again (although even if it did, it wouldn't work very well given the massive amount of %HP damage that has been introduced into the game in the form of itemizations (which btw, item 3151 is getting buffed on the PBE) and skill reworks to make them that way.

Nilok2 votes

Sion "Let's do it!"

Snakezzy1 votes

Doesnt youmuus give crit without attack speed?

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

Doesnt youmuus give crit without attack speed?

yes and no. the attack speed is attached to the active.

{quoted}

Then it becomes an absolutely worthless pick. Why pick up an item that becomes worse when you get low. If Atma's get's put in like that, the AD bonus at 100% hp would need to be so outrageously high to be worth picking up, that any AD champ that would build it, would basically wait for an opening, then dive in, unload everything and hope they killed the target.

I mean, Vi would wait for an opening, Ult in, and hope to blow you up before you could reduce her HP low enough that Atma's wasn't useful. If it ends up being too low, then poke comps ruin the item and make the item useless because of poking around teamfights and objectives.

Overall, Defensive-Offensive stats will always be either completely bonkers OP, or so weak that noone wants them.

you misunderstand.

bonus hp. not current hp. you dotn lose damage, as you lose hp. the ad value would be calculated off how much health you have from other sources than your base health. it doest matter if you took damage or if youre at full health. what factors into the calculation is the sum of your bonus health.

if you had 1000 base health and built a warmorgs for a total of 1800, those 800 health from warmorgs would always grant 28 ad. but the 1000 base health would not factor into the calculation.

{quoted}

That's the problem, Bruisers LOVE this item because then they can stack tanky defensive items and get loads of damage. It's what gave rise to the metagolem in the first place. And didn't you check my math? 2500 bonus HP gives 90 AD, even just 2000 HP gives around 75 AD. That's outright nuts. Honestly, Fighters are the ones that want any sort of defensive stat -> Offensive stat item. You give that to them, and they will abuse the living hell out of it.

Back in Season 2, you had Metagolems running around with 3-4 per game.

Imagine current meta where smite is taken for access to Cinderhulk. Skirmishers saber plus Frozen Mallet, Plus Trinity Force + your atmas gives SO MUCH FREAKING offensive power. The problem is, if Atma's is ever strong, it ends up warping the game around mobile, bursty auto heavy bruisers (J4, Irelia, Jax, Vi, Yi, Nocturne) that It pushes literally EVERY other option out.

i dont want to repeat myself. please read back. getting an atmas on a bruiser is not much different than getting a maw. switch the atmas for any big ad item and you end up with the same values. the % health scaling is misleading. all it does is restrict the item to bruisers and make it useless for squishy carry type champions, and have the ad value slowly ramp up over the game instead of granting it instantly.

this is literally the only effect the passive has. gaining 70 ad from an atmas is not different than gaining 60 to 90 ad from a maw. its an item that requires its own item slot, and not like a 7th item.

Stand in my X1 votes

Tl;Dr?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Tl;Dr?

too bad.

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