@Meddler What are your thoughts on Lulu right now?

A Dizzy Lulu·Nov 6, 2016·48 votes·2,537 views

I don't know, she seems like she's in a really awkward state. Her support is subpar and her mid/top are basically nonexistent now.

84 Comments

JbelsNov 6, 20165 votes

Pust 'em, Dix

manbearswineNov 7, 20164 votes

How the hell did you get this past the bruiser circlejerk?

I call hacks, and smurfs, and xj9.

A Dizzy LuluNov 9, 20161 votes

Because they know that I'm not bronze or silver

manbearswineNov 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2016-11-09T00:40:26.355+0000)

Because they know that I'm not bronze or silver

Are you implying that they know you by name? or that they actually bothered checking you on lolking? Cause both sound equally unlikely.

A Dizzy LuluNov 9, 20161 votes

You'd be surprised how many people bother to op.gg someone. It's always for rank shaming. Especially if you're posting against a circlejerk.

manbearswineNov 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=000e000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T00:45:04.972+0000)

You'd be surprised how many people bother to op.gg someone. It's always for rank shaming.

I can't blame them really. The arrogance coming from the lower elos here deserves nothing else.

Especially if you're posting against a circlejerk.

Doesn't seem to help me though.

GULAG 4 UNov 9, 20161 votes

I didn't know XJ9 was still alive

manbearswineNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I didn't know XJ9 was still alive

How else would you explain a "buff lulu" thread going past the bruiser circlejerk? It's the most logical option left...I think...

GULAG 4 UNov 9, 20161 votes

Idk, where is the mention of the bruisers r bad thingy here?

manbearswineNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Idk, where is the mention of the bruisers r bad thingy here?

Because the moment lulu is mentioned, they get ptsd flashbacks from the time she was strong in top lane, and oppose anything which might have the sligthest chance of her going back there.

Mind you most range bullies which were/are meta are probably even more obnoxious than lulu when equally strong, while generally being more popular, but it's the bruiser ciclejerk, they aren't known for being sensible.

GULAG 4 UNov 9, 20161 votes

Most circlejerks around here aren't sensible lol.

manbearswineNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Most circlejerks around here aren't sensible lol.

Well, the bruiser circlejerk is one of the more senseless ones, also one of the bigger ones, so they are particularly annoying.

stay hardstuckNov 7, 20163 votes

She is outclassed by every other support, but mostly by Janna.

Janna's shields are better, her peel is better, her healing is better, but her damage is worse. Okay, damage... Why would you pick Lulu over Janna for a bit more damage. If you want an aggressive support then just pick Zyra, who is better in damage in every possible way.

The only thing that Lulu is better at compared to Janna, is her shutdown CC. Her 2.5 secs complete shutdown Whimsey is a very very strong skill against carry type champions. But even that gets countered by QSS. You cant counter Janna's Knock Up or push back, so building QSS is not an option.

Lulu is simply a horrible support relatively to others. She needs buffs if she is supposed to be a Support. Otherwise, buff her in a way that she can whether play Top and Mid again or another role (I main her in the Jungle and I think she is quite strong that way).

420 StylishNov 7, 20163 votes

I've got around 700k total mastery points on Zed (across 4 accounts) and, from my experience, Lulu is the most difficult lane for Zed. Kayle and Zilean are close behind but ZIlean isn't near as bad a lane for Zed after his rework. Come late game they all nullify Zed's existence equally well though.

Although assassins are frustrating for other players they still have things that beat and frustrate their players at the same time.

It's not good when anything isn't meta. I'd prefer it if everything could be viable at any given time.

I was simply stating that Lulu triggers me, and I think that goes for majority of top and mid laners that have had to deal with her in those lanes in high elo and even the LCS when she used to be a popular safety pick. I'm not at all saying she doesn't need some help, I'd just prefer it if her 'help' strengthened her support and made her laning (mid & top) a bit less frustrating and manageable.

GrReaper96Nov 7, 20161 votes

I agree. I was perfectly happy playing Lulu support when her mid/top meta came and she was nerfed to the ground.

420 StylishNov 7, 20162 votes

Lulu triggers me. As a Zed main laning against that little shit mid gives me nightmares.

Pandemic PunchNov 7, 20163 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XysDv7v0KeA

420 StylishNov 7, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=I mute all of U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-11-07T09:09:14.421+0000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XysDv7v0KeA

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/7/79/Zed.laugh1.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20130717184711

manbearswineNov 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Give Zed head,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-11-07T08:48:14.825+0000)

Lulu triggers me. As a Zed main laning against that little shit mid gives me nightmares.

In contrast to what laning against zed does to 99% of people.

I just don't feel like assassins have the right to complain about anything at this point, no offense.

420 StylishNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

In contrast to what laning against zed does to 99% of people.

I just don't feel like assassins have the right to complain about anything at this point, no offense.

Well, I can still hate a champion. And seeing as Lulu is, in my opinion, the most difficult champion to lane against as Zed it feels like it makes sense.

SpoofghoulNov 7, 20162 votes

try laning vs sion or yorick with zed thats way more fun then lulu ^^

Pukla Kupli KippNov 7, 20162 votes

I think there are a few small changes she could use to really help her out in the support role. I'll focus on ideas that are mainly involved with her allies.

Some ideas:

Let **Windspeaker's Blessing work with her Wild Growth (R) **
Let +Heal & Shield Power stats affect her Wild Growth (R)
Add an AP Ratio to her Whimsy (W) Attack Speed boost
Normalize her Help, Pix! (E) Shield AP Ratio to 70% from 60% to match shields
**Increase the AP Ratio on Wild Growth (R)? ** Mantra E has a 1.1 AP Ratio. Wild Growth has 50%.

RisenDarkKnightNov 7, 20161 votes

Agreed about the Wild Growth ideas. It feels bad to build Ardent Censor/Mikael's when it doesn't work on the ult.

Athenes LuluNov 7, 20161 votes

Actually, the attackspeed boost does scale off AP.

Though I'd nerf her E enemy cast completely as a tradeoff for stronger shields, and that Lulu's current ult is fine right now.

Don't forget to change her Q to deal 30% less damage on minions and remove the "less damage on multi target". Shit's confusing to players and especially her ADCs.

Ale non è maleNov 7, 20162 votes

Her problem in support role is not much that she is weak, she is decent even now, but she is outclassed in specific needs...

...but not by Janna or Soraka like people are saying, lol, where do people get that idea? Janna and Soraka always outclassed her in the disengage/healing class but Lulu was still strong and as much viable as them, if not better at certain points

Lulu problem is that at the moment with the return of high damage supports like Zyra or Brand she is losing her support niche, because her best attribute as support outside of the istant heal + knockup on ulti, was her damage and right now the support role is full of viable champs of any kind and Lulu doesn't shine even against generalistic champs

I mean, with Nami general comeback earlier in the season, and the Sona buffs that had to be toned down you can't even gave her the surefire upper hand among the generalistic early-mid game poke supports (and this without even considering the insane amount of love people give to Karma despite her being lackluster tbh) given that her damage advantage isn't nearly enough

chipndip1Nov 7, 20161 votes

She was out of the role before Zyra came back in, you know?

Ale non è maleNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She was out of the role before Zyra came back in, you know?

Briefly before Zyra came in Nami and Sona were in their best spot in the season (Nami had a lot of favourable matchup vs the meta champs and Sona had just received changes/buff that made her OP and got then toned down), and when they got nerfed new champs like Zyra popped out

So she wasn't at any point except maybe very few weeks or so the best choice among generalistic poke supports, so it was not a matter of power with her, but the fact that at any point you could argue there was a better champ in her niche that was stronger

Friendly RamNov 6, 20161 votes

Does her support really feel subpar? I quite enjoy her as an agressive support.

A Dizzy LuluNov 6, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Honker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-06T22:06:52.745+0000)

Does her support really feel subpar? I quite enjoy her as an agressive support.

yah, ask any lulu main

(I did, and they all agreed that she was weak)

My sample size isn't the greatest but they're all high ranking lulu mains, so I take their word for it.

MEMEME670Nov 7, 20163 votes

I mean, she is a little weak, but I think you should at least wait for the preseason before making concrete judgements. Lulu doesn't like to build locket, she wants to be building Athenes-esque items (and REALLY benefits from early mana regen). But building like that simply isn't good at the moment, because locket is much too strong.

Thus, I expect Lulu will gain some strength from the preseason, and possibly even more now that assassins burst patterns are changed (Janna is good at peeling all in one instant, Lulu is comparably better at peeling over a longer period of time, and is very good at dealing with assassin style tricks with her ult and e.)

SpecterVonBarenNov 7, 20166 votes

Won't matter. Unless they reduce the amount of burst damage in bot lane right now and give her the ability to poke more safely, she's never going to be able to function bot lane as anything other than a passive snore fest lane praying they survive till late game.

manbearswineNov 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

she's never going to be able to function bot lane as anything other than a passive snore fest lane praying they survive till late game.

You forgot adding "Which janna and soraka are better at in every way".

manbearswineNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean, she is a little weak, but I think you should at least wait for the preseason before making concrete judgements. Lulu doesn't like to build locket,

Lulu loves locket.

she wants to be building Athenes-esque items (and REALLY benefits from early mana regen).

Athene's has no place on a support, as to her mana reliance, it depends on build.(q>w>e isn't too mana heavy, e>w>q is)

Thus, I expect Lulu will gain some strength from the preseason, and possibly even more now that assassins burst patterns are changed (Janna is good at peeling all in one instant, Lulu is comparably better at peeling over a longer period of time, and is very good at dealing with assassin style tricks with her ult and e.)

Lulu's greatest strength is "peeling in an instant", I don't know what you are talking about(ult+w the diver). Doubt preseason would help her much, new itemization feels subpar on her, locket is being replaced by knight's vow(which is probably even more overpowered), which has reduced effects on ranged champions.

SpecterVonBarenNov 7, 20162 votes

You realize Athene's was turned into a support item during the mage update right?

manbearswineNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You realize Athene's was turned into a support item during the mage update right?

It was turned into a supportive item, not a support item, that would be mikael's.

It's something for things like solo lane lulu/karma, not for support lulu(karma is a bit of an exception, but I still wouldn't suggest it).

Sad that people are so bad they can't see that.

SpecterVonBarenNov 7, 20161 votes

Uh... no. There's absolutely no reason a dedicated support can't or shouldn't buy it if they have a heal or shield. The price, utility and stats are all things a support would want, there's no reason for it to be a purely solo laner item.

manbearswineNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Uh... no. There's absolutely no reason a dedicated support can't or shouldn't buy it if they have a heal or shield. The price, utility and stats are all things a support would want, there's no reason for it to be a purely solo laner item.

You're kidding right?

It will generally overshoot your cdr, as all support items have cdr on them, hell eye of the watchers+locket+Athenes=40 cdr, so no mikaels, no ardent censer, no zekes, no lucidity boots, all of that loses a lot of stats as overshooting cdr tends to do that. It will generally overshoot mana regen as well, due to it again, being very common on support items.

Oh and finally, to make use of the unique passive, you'll actually have to be dealing damage(unmitigated, but still), e>w>q max lulu doesn't deal damage, hell after the nerfs even the q max lulu doesn't deal enough damage to justify getting it, janna same thing, soraka same thing, it sorta make sense on karma but due to reasons I've mentioned before, you're still better off not getting it.

But keep downvoting me noobs, just shows you don't know shit.

MEMEME670Nov 8, 20162 votes

Lulu loves locket.

What are you talking about? Lulu buys it currently because it's just the best item in the game. If all stats were equally balanced and that was the only thing you were buying items for, Lulu would want mregen, ap, cdr, and movespeed primarily. Those are the stats she would like to be getting on her core items, although it may not always work out that way. Locket provides none of that.

Athene's has no place on a support, as to her mana reliance, it depends on build.(q>w>e isn't too mana heavy, e>w>q is)

Athene's is perfectly fine on supports in theory. Currently in the meta it tends to have no place, but that's not relevant in this discussion.

Also, assuming you're using Q to poke as often as possible (assuming it's a decent time to use it, of course, not just spamming it on cooldown because you can) Q max does also eat your mana fairly quickly.

Lulu's greatest strength is "peeling in an instant", I don't know what you are talking about(ult+w the diver).

That is good peel, but it's nothing insane. Being able to make use of E's true sight on enemies (vs akali, vayne, etc) and the ult's passive slow field are both over-time things. I said comparably because Janna is the current lulu-esque support in the meta, although her lane phase is very different. And the fact that ult gives max hp as opposed to just a shield (meaning whoever you ult can heal back up to that amount after taking damage), has a passive slow field, the fact that her Q is on a low cooldown, and the fact that her E gives true sight, ALL lend her more power in a more drawn out engagement. She's not bad at peeling in an instant, but she's just worse than Janna overall.

manbearswineNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What are you talking about? Lulu buys it currently because it's just the best item in the game. If all stats were equally balanced and that was the only thing you were buying items for, Lulu would want mregen, ap, cdr, and movespeed primarily. Those are the stats she would like to be getting on her core items, although it may not always work out that way. Locket provides none of that.

q>w>e lulu focuses on her cc and her polymorph, she's also not very mana reliant either, she favors cdr, hp, and magic resist(and flat mana to a lesser extent) so she could polymorph enemies without getting melted by aoe, so as I've said, she loves locket.

e>w>q lulu doesn't deal any damage, so why would she buy athene's?

Athene's is perfectly fine on supports in theory.

In what theory? A theory where supports items don't don't give a shit ton of cdr and mana regen, and where the shielding/healing supports deal damage?

Currently in the meta it tends to have no place, but that's not relevant in this discussion.

That's utter BS, the way current items and champions work and will continue to work for a very long time is 100% relevant to this discussion, it's imaginary crap like your statement which has no room here.

Also, assuming you're using Q to poke as often as possible (assuming it's a decent time to use it, of course, not just spamming it on cooldown because you can) Q max does also eat your mana fairly quickly.

Well don't play like shit then? if there's a 10% chance you'll hit your ability don't use it,if you keep spamming and hitting it the enemy will be dead before your mana runs out, so that's fine too.

That is good peel, but it's nothing insane.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Assassin jumps on carry-> huge hp boost on carry-> 3(0.75 sec knockup, 2.25 sec poly) sec hard cc(well the target can move...slowly)-> "good peel, not insane"-> ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Lulu's instant fuck you to assassins and divers IS one of the best in game, easily on par with janna/zilean/kayle.

Being able to make use of E's true sight on enemies (vs akali, vayne, etc) and the ult's passive slow field are both over-time things.

Wait, you wanna go near these guys while focusing on ap/cdr? Good luck with that. And guess what? janna has w, zilean has e, they also slow over time.

I said comparably because Janna is the current lulu-esque support in the meta, although her lane phase is very different.

Well, it depends. q>w>e lulu is very different from janna, throughout both laning and the rest of the game. e>w>q lulu is very similar to janna, in laning phase as well, and is definetly weaker, she is also unfortunately stronger than q>w>e lulu as well, so as this thread has pointed out "lulu isn't good".

And the fact that ult gives max hp as opposed to just a shield (meaning whoever you ult can heal back up to that amount after taking damage), has a passive slow field, the fact that her Q is on a low cooldown, and the fact that her E gives true sight, ALL lend her more power in a more drawn out engagement.

Tell that to janna's ad boost, which is the better steroid, oh and and e as a true sight tool is extremely situational(for starters, because it's only relevant vs a few champions, and even less of those who it's actually good against) and generally isn't worth doing if you max e first.

She's not bad at peeling in an instant,

She's not just "not bad", she's one of the best.

but she's just worse than Janna overall.

Well, using her stronger build, yes. Using her q>w>e, she's different, but still bad.

MEMEME670Nov 8, 20161 votes

q>w>e lulu focuses on her cc and her polymorph, she's also not very mana reliant either, she favors cdr, hp, and magic resist(and flat mana to a lesser extent) so she could polymorph enemies without getting melted by aoe, so as I've said, she loves locket.

e>w>q lulu doesn't deal any damage, so why would she buy athene's?

I don't agree that q max isn't very mana reliant. Additionally, imo if you position well, and are actually doing your job (meaning peeling divers) you're fine without too many defensive stats. Particularly because you can do your job while standing behind your teams damage dealers, as you only really need to be in range of whoever you're peeling to E them, q off of that, W whoever dives them, and ult them.

E max does way less damage, yes, so athenes is a less likely buy.

In what theory? A theory where supports items don't don't give a shit ton of cdr and mana regen, and where the shielding/healing supports deal damage?

Something like that. It's worth noting that a good portion of that might be coming sooner rather than later, with the chalice change.

That's utter BS, the way current items and champions work and will continue to work for a very long time is 100% relevant to this discussion, it's imaginary crap like your statement which has no room here.

Really? Because I was talking about the stats she wants, not really the unique passives. Hence why I'm saying discussion about the specific viablity of Athene's (which is based more on the powerlevel of its unique passive than the stats it gives) is on a tangent here.

Well don't play like shit then? if there's a 10% chance you'll hit your ability don't use it,if you keep spamming and hitting it the enemy will be dead before your mana runs out, so that's fine too.

Did you read what I wrote? Specifically...

(assuming it's a decent time to use it, of course, not just spamming it on cooldown because you can) because it seems like you didn't.

Also, against someone with sustain//shielding, it does happen where your mana to run out before their hp does, even if you are hitting a fairly big majority of your q's.

Tell that to janna's ad boost, which is the better steroid, oh and and e as a true sight tool is extremely situational(for starters, because it's only relevant vs a few champions, and even less of those who it's actually good against) and generally isn't worth doing if you max e first.

Steroids are good in dps-race scenarios primarily. (Meaning adc vs adc or adc vs tank, in general). Also, e as a true sight tool isn't going to be useful every time, but it is worth mentioning.

Well, using her stronger build, yes. Using her q>w>e, she's different, but still bad.

So, my original quote was...

(Janna is good at peeling all in one instant, Lulu is comparably better at peeling over a longer period of time

You'll note that I used comparably better, meaning all I was saying is that Lulu is better than Janna at peeling over time and worse than Janna at peeling all in one instant. We agree on this, yes? And if so, why are you disputing me so?

manbearswineNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't agree that q max isn't very mana reliant.

It's like saying zyra is mana reliant. q>w>e lulu won't be spamming her e on her ally all the time, she'll be using q strictly in fights, and only when something can be hit with it, whereas e max lulu will try to maintaing her e 100% of the time on the adc, her q is 80 mana, which is typical, in contrast to her base mana regen which is high, this isn't a question of opinions, she's just not very mana reliant, period, eye of the watchers+ zeke's/censer will solve your mana issues.

Additionally, imo if you position well, and are actually doing your job (meaning peeling divers) you're fine without too many defensive stats. Particularly because you can do your job while standing behind your teams damage dealers, as you only really need to be in range of whoever you're peeling to E them, q off of that, W whoever dives them, and ult them.

The main strength of the q>w>e max is playing as a disabler, and that's using your w to shut down enemies, that means you don't just sit back and play as if you're janna. You can do that, don't get me wrong, it's just bad play.

Something like that. It's worth noting that a good portion of that might be coming sooner rather than later, with the chalice change.

It just seems like something which will just end up being used by mid laners like orianna/karma then, it just overshoots the support stats too hard to be good on them.

Really? Because I was talking about the stats she wants, not really the unique passives. Hence why I'm saying discussion about the specific viablity of Athene's (which is based more on the powerlevel of its unique passive than the stats it gives) is on a tangent here.

It's just that no matter what she builds the combination of overshooting mana regen and cdr+the rest of the stats being suboptimal that I just don't see this item ever being good on support lulu(unless ofc its overbuffed at some point).

Also, against someone with sustain//shielding, it does happen where your mana to run out before their hp does, even if you are hitting a fairly big majority of your q's.

That's why you also have thunderlords, autoattacks, and your passive. Anyway, shields/heals cost more mana than your q, so you are winning anyway. But even if you have those issue during laning, there are other items you need to finish first(eye of the watchers), and by the time you finish them laning will be over and what athenes could've done irrelevant.

Steroids are good in dps-race scenarios primarily. (Meaning adc vs adc or adc vs tank, in general). Also, e as a true sight tool isn't going to be useful every time, but it is worth mentioning.

Dps shines in prolonged fights, burst shines in those that end fast.

You'll note that I used comparably better, meaning all I was saying is that Lulu is better than Janna at peeling over time and worse than Janna at peeling all in one instant. We agree on this, yes? And if so, why are you disputing me so?

We definitely disagree on it. Janna is better at an instant, and also at prolonged fights, but pretty much to the same extent, janna does the same things e>w>q lulu does, but better: better instant peel, better steroids for her adc, better prolonged peel, safer warding, safer and stronger laning, less skill requirement+room to mess up.

MEMEME670Nov 8, 20161 votes

It's like saying zyra is mana reliant. q>w>e lulu won't be spamming her e on her ally all the time, she'll be using q strictly in fights, and only when something can be hit with it, whereas e max lulu will try to maintaing her e 100% of the time on the adc, her q is 80 mana, which is typical, in contrast to her base mana regen which is high, this isn't a question of opinions, she's just not very mana reliant, period, eye of the watchers+ zeke's/censer will solve your mana issues.

Two things. 1) The playstyle you mentioned seems extremely conservative, as if you're playing around your mana pool in order to avoid going oom. This is of course, generally optimal assuming you have to do so, but more freedom can be allowed if you had more mana regen (or a larger mana pool). Freedom such as putting e on your ally more, poking with Q prefight, etc.

Sure, she won't have mana issues after 2 items. The mana problems I'm talking about I typically experience in lane phase and just after it's ended, where you won't have both those items finished yet.

The main strength of the q>w>e max is playing as a disabler, and that's using your w to shut down enemies, that means you don't just sit back and play as if you're janna. You can do that, don't get me wrong, it's just bad play.

Q max and E max both have the same amount of power in their w...

Also, playing back vs an akali or something is completely fine. You're still going to be able to peel her all the same once she goes in, and it's not like she's throwing nidalee spears from long range while you can't do anything to her. She can't be useful unless she goes in, so you playing back has minimal downsides, while keeping you extremely safe.

It's just that no matter what she builds the combination of overshooting mana regen and cdr+the rest of the stats being suboptimal that I just don't see this item ever being good on support lulu(unless ofc its overbuffed at some point).

That's why you also have thunderlords, autoattacks, and your passive. Anyway, shields/heals cost more mana than your q, so you are winning anyway. But even if you have those issue during laning, there are other items you need to finish first(eye of the watchers), and by the time you finish them laning will be over and what athenes could've done irrelevant.

Would you please read what I'm saying? I don't intend to be rude but it seems like you're just reading what you want to.

I'm talking about the STATS. The STATS, NOT the passive. These stats are given by a ton of different items, in different quantities, I just chose athenes as it was the first one to pop up in my head. Whether or not she buys the item has nothing to do with my point here.

Dps shines in prolonged fights, burst shines in those that end fast.

I don't follow your point here. Jannas steroid is dps. Lulu's is as well, just stronger in early game or some specialized scenarios.

We definitely disagree on it. Janna is better at an instant, and also at prolonged fights, but pretty much to the same extent, janna does the same things e>w>q lulu does, but better: better instant peel, better steroids for her adc, better prolonged peel, safer warding, safer and stronger laning, less skill requirement+room to mess up.

Why have you waited so long to bring this up? This is a much more substantial topic.

But, I think that this is true in part because of the locket meta and how assassins burst patterns are at the moment. I think that Lulu has better prolonged peel (once janna QWR's she has really long cooldowns, and Q isn't insanely good once the diver has already gotten in).

manbearswineNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Two things. 1) The playstyle you mentioned seems extremely conservative, as if you're playing around your mana pool in order to avoid going oom. This is of course, generally optimal assuming you have to do so, but more freedom can be allowed if you had more mana regen (or a larger mana pool). Freedom such as putting e on your ally more, poking with Q prefight, etc.

With the range and damage on q, just isn't worth it.

Sure, she won't have mana issues after 2 items. The mana problems I'm talking about I typically experience in lane phase and just after it's ended, where you won't have both those items finished yet.

I mean I can argue about it, but it won't matter, you're not gonna get athene's before watchers so this is just irrelevant.

Q max and E max both have the same amount of power in their w...

No, they don't. E lulu will take windspeakers, then go for things like ardent censer to maximize her shielding, but it will also make her too squishy to do anything not defensive, q max lulu won't go for these items and will instead use e to maximize her q, to amplify that she will build cdr and defensive items which will allow her to focus on polymorphing too.

Also, playing back vs an akali or something is completely fine. You're still going to be able to peel her all the same once she goes in, and it's not like she's throwing nidalee spears from long range while you can't do anything to her. She can't be useful unless she goes in, so you playing back has minimal downsides, while keeping you extremely safe.

You won't be safe, the moment poly is down you're dead, and maxing e you would be forced to choose between shielding your ally, or keeping it to reveal akali, crippling your effectiveness. (also akali isn't very good, and you're going to need to defensive items to get near most meta assassins or damage dealers)

Would you please read what I'm saying? I don't intend to be rude but it seems like you're just reading what you want to.

I think the problem is that you just don't understand the situation, or the relevance of athene's to it.

I'm talking about the STATS. The STATS, NOT the passive. These stats are given by a ton of different items, in different quantities, I just chose athenes as it was the first one to pop up in my head. Whether or not she buys the item has nothing to do with my point here.

You can't just ignore passives or actives like that, they are a reason that items costs as much as it costs, it's part of the stats it gives.

I don't follow your point here. Jannas steroid is dps. Lulu's is as well, just stronger in early game or some specialized scenarios.

Yes, but janna's is better.

Why have you waited so long to bring this up? This is a much more substantial topic.

Because this is all about athene's, and the locket blame. Locket for q>w>e lulu is absolutely great, it gives her exactly what she wants(though not all of it).

But, I think that this is true in part because of the locket meta and how assassins burst patterns are at the moment. I think that Lulu has better prolonged peel (once janna QWR's she has really long cooldowns, and Q isn't insanely good once the diver has already gotten in).

Q is still very good, so is her passive, and so is her shield.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 7, 20161 votes

Does she really need any changes other than a minor buff? she has some pretty nice anti assassination utility with her ult, a nice attack speed steroid, tons of utility in general really.

somexotherxguyNov 7, 20161 votes

I can add to your sample size. Overall Lulu is on the weak side but she has her strengths. I almost pick her in every solo ranked game whether its mid or support and do well. If Lulu is played well she can dominate lane or at the very least pacify the enemy lane.

Athenes LuluNov 6, 20163 votes

If players don't have brains yes.

With half of a brain and teammates willing to work with you, not as much.

Though she's more of something not worth learning and trying to get better at and climb with when you can play Janna/Karma and do similar jobs but easier.

A Dizzy LuluNov 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-11-06T23:04:21.703+0000)

If players don't have brains yes.

With half of a brain and teammates willing to work with you, not as much.

Though she's more of something not worth learning and trying to get better at and climb with when you can play Janna/Karma and do similar jobs but easier.

You also forgot to mention that those champions do better jobs than she does at basically everything.

Athenes LuluNov 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vuiT8nga,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-11-07T13:44:50.087+0000)

You also forgot to mention that those champions do better jobs than she does at basically everything.

Let's get real here, one of the only reasons anyone should try even learning to play Lulu right now is because they want to be hipsters of the game instead of picking the "best and easy" stuff to win.

A Swiss Army Knife isn't the sharpest or most dangerous tool out there, but pretty handy. Gotta keep it fairly blunt so that it can retain its portability but still do what you hope it could do.

SpecterVonBarenNov 7, 20162 votes

Not when any meta ADC can chunk her down to 0 in one rotation. Lucian, Jhin, Cait, they all just destroy you with their burst damage and outrange you with said burst damage, add to this an all in engage support who can help them kill you, or a Soraka or Janna to negate your pitiful poke damage and she's just trash as an aggressive support. All you can do is just sit back like a Janna and just hit E whenever your ADC will take damage but without the big AD that can add to your ADC's burst, instead it needing to be applied in a long trade.

She's just trash, she can't use her autos for poke so all she can do is burn through her mana with Q's and that STILL won't be enough unless you're just building straight AP.

Sassmast3rNov 7, 20161 votes

Am I the only one who doesn't play Lulu because of how strange her W and E ranges feel? I would love to play Lulu, but if her Q ain't gonna do any damage on it's own and is relatively hard to hit, why are her W and E abilities set at like, 400 range? It just feels so out of place; with Karma I can cast my shield from, gosh, 650ish units away, whereas Lulu's W and E can be cast from almost half of that. I feel like I need to buy mobi's not for the sake of fast warding, but just so I can actually walk close enough to my team before they get killed and I wasn't able to support them with anything but a distant ultimate and a glitterlance.