There seems to be extreme misconceptions about Zoe still

Subject 5··8 votes·725 views
  1. People think that Zoe is super duper mobile. A: If Zoe is super duper mobile, then so is Rammus % Hecarim although they have capabilities to move in their kits, they aren't actually that mobile at all and can easily be outplayed. In Zoes case though, she has no gap closer that snares her in place . . . no dashing and no, saying that: "She's mobile because she just picked up a TP!" does not make her a mobile champion, that's up to the mid laner to call it out. That's like, you know, nothing new to this game at all.

  2. People think that Zoe has access to a billion of her W's in lane. A: Most of EVERYBODY beats the fuck out of Zoe in lane, and she struggles to push it out against many match-ups. Most times I'm jungling I see a Zoe desperately trying to get that power up for her W but can't get to it because if she does, then she dies. Most times I'm forced to come mid and help her get that power-up if I think it is worth it. So no, even if she did have access to a billion W's it doesn't matter - it matters out of laning phase though. Which is an entirely different game.

  3. People aren't aware of her combos, so they don't know what she can or can not do. They just think that she needs to land a COUGH COUGH super easy E and then land a Q. A: Zoe has a lot of combos, using her Q requires 2 points of thought. She could also use her Q then flash to expand the distance, or she could Q, ultimate E and then use her Q or she could throw Q back and then W for something like item 3152 then flash and then ultimate to gain more distance. There's a ton of things to do with Zoe that nobody is taking into account for though . . . like:

  4. People think that because she has massive range, that you can always use that range on the enemy team. A: Okay, you have artillery - but what good is this artillery against a well position team? Did you land an E? Well Nautilus just popped W and stood in front of your target. Is your laner standing behind minions and you can't do anything even if you landed E? Give up on your combo or risk death. Zoe's worst nightmare is collission with the unintended target, unless of course she's dangerously fed - at that point though, ADC Soraka can even blow a hole through Nautilus. The fact is that she does have insane damage - duh. So does everybody else, literally EVERYBODY can 1 shot you in this game that takes mid currently. But what the fucks good is that damage and range if the intended target can't be hit?

  5. People seem to lack this idea that she can't be ganked. A. I don't know why . . . but why has nobody mentioned this? Zoe, a champion with absolutely no fucking escape isn't being spoken about how she is required to instant flash to get away from any competent jungler. She can't just 'magic up' a W to run away and her E is pretty easy to predict - that ultimate does no good because it's an instant death wish. Do as you would to a Xerath Brand mid and just camp them due to lack of gap closer.

Obviously there is more - but I think these should be addressed. Bonus points:

BONUS POINT: Streamers are a major influence, and I'd say, a very DUMB influence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6zuBXP9YBk&feature=em-uploademail

"Literally can't help his jungler for 7 seconds or so until Rammus is nearly dead, pops W and uses passive, does a little smidget of damage that is absolutely laughable" = "Wow Zoe is soooooo OP - look how I just did like 150 damage with my passive and W combined."

The rest of the game turns out to be a stomp, so while he's ahead he is somehow surprised that he's bursting people on a burst mage that is meant to burst people down with burst damage. Hello? Anybody out there? I get that it's clickbait but jesus . . . why don't other people see this as clickbait?

6 Comments

Teridax682 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqYkix7j,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-05T14:17:04.835+0000)

  1. People think that Zoe is super duper mobile. A: If Zoe is super duper mobile, then so is Rammus % Hecarim although they have capabilities to move in their kits

Except both Rammus and Hecarim are notoriously mobile, even though Rammus himself has no dash. The whole notion that movement speed boosts somehow do not constitute mobility is itself a misconception, one that turns completely ridiculous with precisely those examples. Part of Zoe's mobility comes from the fact that everybody has Flash, too, which means she is pretty much guaranteed to use Flash far more frequently than her opponents, simply because she gets to steal it from others. In addition, even though her double blink brings her to her original location, it still transports her around, and still operates as mobility: if it were to be discounted, then LeBlanc, whose dash-blink combo is integral to how she plays, wouldn't be mobile either.

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqYkix7j,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-05T14:17:04.835+0000)

  1. People think that Zoe has access to a billion of her W's in lane.

It doesn't really take "a billion" Ws so much as a single lucky spell for her to completely turn a lane around. Summoner spells are powerful tools, and she gets to use them much more often than anyone else, whether or not that constitutes a literal billion in lane.

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqYkix7j,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-05T14:17:04.835+0000)

  1. People aren't aware of her combos, so they don't know what she can or can not do. They just think that she needs to land a COUGH COUGH super easy E and then land a Q.

The problem with Zoe's combo is that, if she lands her E, whether or not she lands her Q is completely out of your hands. If Zoe misses, that's her own fault, because during that time you're unable to move or act. People also criticize her E because, unlike most skillshots, it can still affect people even if the projectile hits nothing on its travel. In order to miss her E, she needs to not only miss the skillshot, but also have nobody go into the pretty wide area it leaves behind, which itself has a collision radius that doesn't quite match its graphic. It may not be the easiest ability around, but it's certainly not one of the most difficult, which means there isn't all that much interaction to her combo, which is enough to singlehandedly kill most targets.

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqYkix7j,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-05T14:17:04.835+0000)

  1. People think that because she has massive range, that you can always use that range on the enemy team.

The problem isn't that she can always use her range against the enemy team, it's that she can use that range on the enemy team whenever she likes. If Zoe misses her E or lands it on the wrong champion, she can just wait a few seconds and try again from a long distance. The same thing applies to her R and Q. Her W is her only real resource that she can waste, and even then, she can always go fish for another summoner spell or item active by killing a minion. There is effectively very little that can be done to punish Zoe if she misplays, unless she somehow walks all the way into the enemy team instead of ulting in.

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqYkix7j,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-05T14:17:04.835+0000)

  1. People seem to lack this idea that she can't be ganked.

Any champion can be ganked to some extent, but Zoe is definitely among the harder champions to gank. She doesn't have a guaranteed escape (unless she picks up Flash with W), but she does have hard crowd control, and if you try to follow her she can hit you pretty hard with just one Q. Post-6, her ult can be used to stall significantly, and can outright kill an unwary jungler in the process. If either the laner or the jungler uses a summoner spell, Zoe can also fire it right back against them, meaning players end up with fewer viable tools to affect her.

Built to Tylt1 votes

Yeah, I never thought she was broken. I do still ban her in games, though, because I don't trust my team to be able to play around her.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

I've probably seen more Zoes do poorly than do well. Whether that's due to her difficulty, her newness or what is unclear, but I definitely agree that she's not as strong as people think. Biggest reason is you play against her the same way you counterplay most Burst Mages: they aren't mobile at all. Sure, it's possible she might have two flashes, but you know what? Her health bar announces to the world what W spell she has. If it has Ignite, or nothing at all, she's as much of a sitting duck as Veigar or Annie. She's got her own flash, some CC, and that's it. No escape.

And people are like "landing skillshots on her is pointless, she will go back to where she ulted from no matter what and be CC'd there instead." But you know what? They know exactly where she will go back and she WILL BE CC'D. Her R should be thought of more as a glorified range extender and occasional dodge. I think people are overthinking her ult's usefulness.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

It seems like you haven't read most of the Zoe complaints on the boards. About 80% of them are some variation of: her E is overloaded/way too strong/can't be Black Shielded/has almost no CD since it has a refund/is basically a guaranteed death if she lands it on you.

I will grant that the other 20% are "OMG that W RNG is so bad because one time she got 3 TPs in a row/2 redemptions!"

Subject 51 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqYkix7j,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-05T18:35:58.065+0000)

It seems like you haven't read most of the Zoe complaints on the boards. About 80% of them are some variation of: her E is overloaded/way too strong/can't be Black Shielded/has almost no CD since it has a refund/is basically a guaranteed death if she lands it on you.

I will grant that the other 20% are "OMG that W RNG is so bad because one time she got 3 TPs in a row/2 redemptions!"

It isn't a guaranteed death, the counter was posted above - it is guaranteed though if you're alone and likely in the jungle to begin with.

At this point though, every champion that is popular is pretty much overloaded - I gave up on that argument like some time ago because of the new champion roster. This argument applies to a mega-wad-fuck-ton of champions in this game, not just Zoe. But this forum concerns the misconceptions of Zoes power - she has a lot of set-backs that prevent her from actually excelling in the game. Without her current strength or even minor nerfs, honestly, I don't see her being as good as a straight forward burst mage who requires 1 button press to kill you Syndra with reliable CC.

Both champions serve different purposes, however, one has wildly clear weaknesses that the other just doesn't have . . .

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Are a lot of champs overloaded? Eh, not really. Ivern, for example, isn't particularly overloaded. Nor is Syndra. They both do 1 or 2 things well, and each of their skills and passives does one or two things.

Zoe's overloaded in general (her W does like 3 different things), but her E is easily the single most overloaded skill in the game. And by overloaded what I mean is, it has a ton of passives and extra features that other skills just don't get:

  • Gives a significant cooldown refund on hit
  • Has extended range when thrown through walls
  • Leaves a large trap on the ground if it doesn't hit
  • Slows for 2.2 seconds followed by 2 more seconds of sleep (4+ second CCs aren't unheard of but they aren't common)
  • Deals respectable damage when it hits, and also adds up to 600 true damage to the next hit you take

That's a LOT for one skill to do. And I'm not sure why it NEEDS all these features.

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