The new Rylai's is absolute shit and Riot handled it horribly.

WoonStruck·Dec 7, 2016·6 votes·1,489 views

The Rylai's adjustments were a cop-out.

Yes, it needed to be nerfed, but if you leave it as-is, remove it as an item. Might as well, since it'll never get used.

29 Comments

TyrekGoldenspearDec 7, 20163 votes

Dude Rylais is meant to be niche, it's not for everyone.

WoonStruckDec 7, 20163 votes

It was niche before they buffed it.

If Riot weren't run by idiots, they'd just revert the buffs.

TyrekGoldenspearDec 7, 20165 votes

And it is now niche again.

I don't see the problem.

Also calling Riot idiots doesn't help your case.

I would do a side-by-side comparison of prebuff Rylais and this Rylais but I can't find the patch notes.

SwiftKitten88Dec 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

And it is now niche again.

I don't see the problem.

Also calling Riot idiots doesn't help your case.

I would do a side-by-side comparison of prebuff Rylais and this Rylais but I can't find the patch notes.

the issue is many champ got it becuase it was the only viable hp and AP option and NOT because of the slow

most AP champ DO NOT wanty to be anywhere close to the enemy and therefore the active of item 3030 is worthless and bsially means your paying for a stat that you can never use

item 3027 is good if you can scale decently

but for AP champs that are early game champ, who need AP and HP and CAN'T afford to wait 10 min for item 3027 to become efficient and who don't want to be in melee range.

which is like .. pretty much EVERY AP CHAMP

item 3116 was the only option

and for AP junglers its even worse.. becuase AP mid can get item 3027 first item to at least make it fully stacked at between 15 and 25 min

you want an AP jungler? you NEED to finish item 1410 and at least t1 boots before you can even THINK of getting another item..

item 3116 was CORE on my main Nidalee ... and i didn't give a damn about the slow, i can throw 1 spear every 6 seconds... the slow wont help me land a spear... i get movement speed running towards a hunted target.. i don't need a slow to reach them. i don't give a damn about the slow... but nid DESPERATELY needs hp and AP item 3030 sucks because of the active... even when you pounce for a trade and pounce out. trying to use that active is just goign to get you killed. item 3027 WOULD be great. IF i could stack it early enough but because i NEED to finish item 1410 AND item 3158 before i can even COSIDER buying a 3rd item.. and if i HAVE the gold to complete early enough for it to stack in time for it to be useful. going item 3100 as a 3rd item would be a MUCH more efficient power-spike anyways you normally go item 3116 3rd but if you DO get a lead you get an early 3rd instead of 4th.

so again... there ARE no other options..

TyrekGoldenspearDec 7, 20161 votes

Okay, that is a much better explanation of who is hurt by the rylais nerfs.

I see your pain, and I suppose this means it's high time we get another HP/AP item.

Liandries got the price reduced. Think it's an ok sub until we get another item?

SwiftKitten88Dec 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Okay, that is a much better explanation of who is hurt by the rylais nerfs.

I see your pain, and I suppose this means it's high time we get another HP/AP item.

Liandries got the price reduced. Think it's an ok sub until we get another item?

it would be fine if it didnt pretty much require you to have a slowing CC ability.. which again Nidalee doesn't

Asayake 5150glowDec 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

the issue is many champ got it becuase it was the only viable hp and AP option and NOT because of the slow

most AP champ DO NOT wanty to be anywhere close to the enemy and therefore the active of is worthless and bsially means your paying for a stat that you can never use

is good if you can scale decently

but for AP champs that are early game champ, who need AP and HP and CAN'T afford to wait 10 min for to become efficient and who don't want to be in melee range.

which is like .. pretty much EVERY AP CHAMP

was the only option

and for AP junglers its even worse.. becuase AP mid can get first item to at least make it fully stacked at between 15 and 25 min

you want an AP jungler? you NEED to finish and at least t1 boots before you can even THINK of getting another item..

was CORE on my main ... and i didn't give a damn about the slow, i can throw 1 spear every 6 seconds... the slow wont help me land a spear... i get movement speed running towards a hunted target.. i don't need a slow to reach them. i don't give a damn about the slow... but nid DESPERATELY needs hp and AP sucks because of the active... even when you pounce for a trade and pounce out. trying to use that active is just goign to get you killed. WOULD be great. IF i could stack it early enough but because i NEED to finish AND before i can even COSIDER buying a 3rd item.. and if i HAVE the gold to complete early enough for it to stack in time for it to be useful. going as a 3rd item would be a MUCH more efficient power-spike anyways you normally go 3rd but if you DO get a lead you get an early 3rd instead of 4th.

so again... there ARE no other options..

Try protobelt dude.

SwiftKitten88Dec 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Try protobelt dude.

item 3152 kinda of has the same issue item 3030 has

nidalee already has a gap closer, she is already extremely mobile, she does not need another dash to go in.. i mean if anything she would use protobelt to try to get OUT because they completly gutted her pounce reset for her escape, so that COULD be useful. but the same issue is still there, not enough AP ...not enough HP

i mean nidalee donest GET a lot of ap anymore

back when she could lane she got at lot more ap.

now?

item 1410 60 ap item 3158 0 ap

those are your first two items.. no exceptions other than item 2055 and item 3364

3rd and 4th used to be between item 3116 for most game and item 3100 if you got a crazy lead

if they were very heavy AD you might get item 3157 as 3rd or 4th or very heavy AP you would get item 3001 late game you would 90% of the time get item 3135 but if they are _all _ really squishy you might get item 3089

but either way what is that 60 from item 1410 0 from item 3158 80 item 3100 70 or 80 from item 3157 or item 3001 80 from item 3135 as your last item (but by that time your already going to be worthless as nidalee)

and then we USED to have 100 AP item 3116

60+80+100+80+80 is 400 AP COMPLETE BUILD nidalee

she DOESN'T get much ap.

Big LincolnDec 7, 20163 votes

rylai's should be removed for the health of the game

EschetonDec 7, 20163 votes

Before it was the OP stat-stick must-have. This is prettymuch what it was. Used to be a utility item. Now it is again.

WoonStruckDec 7, 20162 votes

Except it has 1/2 the utility, 2/3 the duration, and 3/4 the stats.

If the utility were still decent, I could accept the stat drop.

Its simply not worth buying on anyone except DoT champs like Zyra, Brand, etc now. That's not niche. That's bad design.

Current Rylai's is a lot worse than the old Rylai's before it was buffed to be a huge stat-stick.

EedatDec 8, 20162 votes

Your kind of neglecting that the price dropped to reflect the stats

WoonStruckDec 8, 20162 votes

It should have dropped further due to the gutting the passive took. All that needed to be nerfed was AoE/DoT.

Cass specifically needed to have her E changed to be considered AoE for the purpose of spellvamp/rylai's again.

Mig89Dec 8, 20162 votes

It is an amazing support item for ap champs. This is coming from a zyra main however so I may be a little biased but I love the change. I always bought it for the slow and now I can get it sooner

AstôlfoDec 7, 20162 votes

Well, mage supports can abuse it better now. Ugh.

Mig89Dec 8, 20161 votes

Yes 😁 Lol just noticed you commented on my post about it being good for supports and called it cancer. What's wrong with supports having one cancer item while adc have like 3, tanks have a couple, assassins have a ton, and fighters having some

AstôlfoDec 8, 20161 votes

Just because there might be some for others doesn't justify more. It justifies fixing the pre-existing ones or removing/reworking them altogether.

And what other items do you consider cancer?

Mig89Dec 8, 20161 votes

item 3022 item 3025 item 3156 item 3046 item 3085 Soraka They're not all abusive on all champs but can be abused. Same as new rylais. Soraka was a joke. She's just annoying

AstôlfoDec 8, 20161 votes

Mallet, yes.

Iceborn is fine except for Ezreal abusing it.

Maw/Hexdrinker are a bit too strong in their shield strength.

Dancer, yes.

Runaan's, yes.

Mig89Dec 8, 20161 votes

My point. Finally we have a cheap item we AP support champs can get to stay relevant in combat

AstôlfoDec 8, 20161 votes

Morello's and that Sighstone upgrade are both fairly cheap and offer decent AP. Rylai's is hideously horrible design because it gives massive CC and permanent application to every single AP user, many of which are SPECIFICALLY BALANCED AROUND not having that kind of level of CC.

Mig89Dec 8, 20161 votes

Gnar was balanced around not having mallet. Ez was balanced without IBG Everyone is balanced without maw or hexdrinker in mind ^ same for PD Cait and twitch were balanced without runaans. The point is items give much more benefit to some champs than others. With the stat decreases, rylais isnt going to be bought as often by your heavy hitting mana users. Its really only going to be abused by supports and a few special cases. Eye of the watcher and Frost queens do not give decent AP. Theyre bought for their actives. Morellos is nice but theres no utility to it.

JbelsDec 7, 20162 votes

yeah, it doesn't seem worth it to get it when it only provides the meager stats it provides, and the slow seems super gimped. Maybe turn it into a support item

SwiftKitten88Dec 7, 20162 votes

the sad part is there were at least 5 good suggestions on how to properly nerf it...

the best one being.. just add a freaking cooldown to the damn slow mechanic on a target. the issue rylias has and the only issue it has EVER had.. its PERMA slow

if rylias slowed you for 1.5 seconds like it SAID and like it was DESIGNED to do.. it would be FINE

the issue is when you just slowed for like 9 seconds until you die becuase certain mages and reapplied the slow endlessly before it can ever end it becomes broken..

its balanced around 1.5 second slow.. not "you hit the enemy once and they're slowed until they die"

SOOO just add a 2-3 second cooldown between when the slow wear off and when it can be reapplied.. literally ALL they had to do...

WoonStruckDec 7, 20161 votes

Riot's fine with the people that consistently slow. They're not fine with the amount of utility, damage, and tankiness it adds to champions that don't need the utility and tankiness.

Which is why its stupid that they gutted the slow, duration, health, AND AP all at the same time.

SGT Dingle BerryDec 7, 20161 votes

Huh, I actually like the changes. Don't get me wrong I liked it pre nerf too but now it fits well with AP supports and Evelynn. I know the biggest argument is it no longer being slot efficient and that may hold true for longer 6 item games, but most end at 3 or 4. Now with the lower cost I'm excited to see how it'll change Viktor, who excels with full upgrade and Lich bane which feels like forever until I've farmed enough for all 3.

UnpaladinDec 7, 20161 votes

It needed to stop being the second strongest AP item in the game while also being the best utility item in the game. Riot went the extra stop to stop toxic permaslows, and I don't see the what the big deal is since it accomplishes the same goal but with in a more acceptable manner and has had a huge cost reduction because of it.

I'm sure those who say it was ruined and say it almost immediately after the patch happen to be those who play champions who abuse the permaslow functionality where opponent is crippled for 5 hours for getting hit by one spell. That was fantastic gameplay tbh and I can see why they want that kept in the game, having another LCS "Graves is literally unkillable!" balance moment is always something fun to look forward to.

WoonStruckDec 7, 20161 votes

Everyone just wanted it nerfed back to what it was before they buffed it, with possible AP drop to go alongside the other AP item nerfs that came with the MYMU.

Instead, Riot guts the passive so its basically only useful on DoT champions, and cuts the stats by 25%. The goal of the update was not to stop perma-slows. It was to stop people that didn't need the utility, damage, and tankiness all at the same time from getting an extra mile out of it.

FYI, only champions who can abuse Rylai's can make good use of it now. That is to say Cass and DoT champions. However, most won't buy it because its stats are so bad now.

Anyone that actually relied on it to function, rather than simply abusing it when it was not needed, is fucked atm.

Stats are so bad that those that make good use of the passive won't use it.

Passive so bad that those that need it won't use it.

VivaLaKittenDec 8, 20161 votes

I don't like all these new cheap items that don't build into anything late game ;-; especially how the supports ones don't, supports still use non support items because support items are so weak right now </3