Increasing Vlad's healing will not fix his issues.

WoonStruck·May 11, 2016·157 votes·5,984 views

You're only pushing him closer to the black and white overbearing or useless scenarios.

Vlad has general usability and impact issues. Not issues staying alive.

When he does stay alive, his impact is null against anyone that's smart enough to invest in a single MR item, even with Void Staff.

Increasing his ult's healing does not address any of his issues, especially since most of his issues come from teamfighting.

His E needs to have more guaranteed impact when he manages to land it, considering all of the factors going against him. Bonus MR penetration, like GP's barrel, when he fully charges E would be a great place to look.

Another option is increasing his general usability by tweaking his huge cast animation times and delays, specifically tail end of W and his Q/Q healing particle. He cannot function in the situations he should excel in (low HP, close fights) because its nearly a full second after you try to cast Q that you get your healing. Around 2 seconds you're waiting after W ends before you get your heal if you cast Q immediately when it lets you.

Please consider fixing his unintended issues first, then look to buff if he's still weak.

148 Comments

XanitMay 11, 201633 votes

Why are people downvoting this already? He's right -- the heal on his ult is useless, and increasing it will just make for more feast-or-famine moments. The rich need to stop getting richer, and Riot needs to rely on more healthy game mechanics that actually accentuate player skill.

I personally think he's in a pretty good spot right now, but some people seem to think he needs a buff... I don't have a suggestion for WHAT to buff, because I'm enjoying his kit as it is, but I'd like to see ideas.

WoonStruckMay 11, 201618 votes

The only areas I think he needs buffs are QoL buffs, which would be relatively minor, and something to assist his general impact.

For QoL, namely reducing the period after W before you can use Q, and reducing the cast animation/heal particle delay on Q. Its nearly 2 full seconds from the moment you're vulnerable after W until you finally get your Q heal. This means scenarios he should excel in (low HP/close fights), are actually some of his worse situations. Fixing that would be a huge step towards pushing him in the right direction.

As far as his impact goes, all he has to offer his team is damage, yet he's largely useless considering how he's pseudo-burst, with no effective DPS now. He has no mobility, which makes this even worse. What use is living via sustain if you have little-to-no impact with it? The moment someone buys MR, the efficiency of E plummets, even with Void Staff, and it starts out inefficient either way due to base MR. If E were guaranteed to have impact, via % bonus MR penetration (possibly even total MR, but that's pushing it) on fully charged Es, he would be alot better, although he'd probably need further tweaking, like GP did.

Battlecast SonaMay 12, 20161 votes

his E is on like a 2 second CD? How is that not DPS...?

CynikaMay 12, 20162 votes

Well you also need to channel it for it to do any real damage, which leaves you opened to be cc'ed, them walk away, etc.

His new e works a lot more (realistically) as a burst damage spell.

Also spamming e will kill you faster than you kill them

Battlecast SonaMay 12, 20161 votes

I guess I just haven't really experienced that problem. Granted, I haven't played a lot of Vladimir since the change (I don't play solo lane often) but when I have played him he felt a lot better overall. I did feel a DPS decrease without the E but I also didn't feel like I had to constantly keep it at 4 stacks - it was this hard to track buff that you could only see on your buff bar, no visual indicator... And now full charge E has a slow. I think if they increased the duration of the slow as you ranked the skill up or something it would go a long way to closing some of the gaps, since reliable CC has always been something Vlad has lacked in his kit (And it would also make full charge E feel more impactful).

WoonStruckMay 12, 20165 votes

Rylai's is core on him. The slow is literally useless.

He needs guaranteed impact with his E, considering all of the things going against him for casting it. Currently, the damage doesn't cut it, since MR invalidates the skill, hence why I suggest % bonus magic pen on a full charge.

shabingiMay 11, 201611 votes

He is absolute garbage vs good players. All riot did was increase the counterplay in his kit while keeping his overall numbers about the same. He was already a weak champion before, rarely played in high elo. He has a 41% win rate in diamond, good for 4th worst in the game. This is also much lower than before the garbage rework.

WoonStruckMay 11, 20165 votes

His numbers are not about the same. They are objectively lower, with the exception of CR heal when low on HP, and the upfront damage on E (with way lower DPS, though).

BloodyTomponMay 11, 20161 votes

(Assuming you guys are talking about the PBE changes - If not ignore me )

Actually the way they have done it makes him less feast or famine. They increased the low of hitting one champ and reduced the gap between the low and high use case. Reducing his variance makes Vlad less feast or famine, not more.

WoonStruckMay 11, 20163 votes

Situations where he'd use his ult are not his issue though.

He has general gameplay issues holding him back, not issues with his all-ins/disengages. If he does have issues with his all-ins/disengages, or even teamfighting, its not because of his ult. Its because of glaring issues with his kit. Besides, 175 more healing at level 16 isn't going to save me in any situation the ult wouldn't have already saved me.

Making it so Vlad can actually function without having an unintended aspect of his kit hold him back would help a lot more.

WoonStruckMay 11, 201611 votes

Bump to get a red to commit to some Vlad follow-up.

JESUSSAYSNOMay 12, 201610 votes

-PASSIVE SPELLVAMP BEFORE MR ON HIS ULT 5% PER RANK -REMOVE SELF AND ENEMY SLOWS AND RANGE IDICATOR, ADD 50% PENETRATION BEYOND FIRST TARGET (zed Q style) ON E -AVERAGE OUT Q HEALING AND DAMAGE, REMOVE CRIMSON RUSH BAR -FIX W BUGS

boom, vlad's fixed.

CowboyNinjaMay 12, 20165 votes

Hahaha, if only it were so easy. No, no, no. First we must buff his numbers 3 times. 2 times small buffs, then 1 huge buff. Then let him be OP broken for 2 weeks so you can one shot carries with a single E, then 1 big giant nerf into the ground so even less people play him than before (Morde). Then several very tiny buffs and bug fixes over a couple years until he's pretty decent in the hands of the people who have mastered him, but subpar winrate overall for most people who try to pick him up and play him casually. Then we'll promise a rework for another year. Then we'll finally rework him again, in pretty much the opposite way all the Vlad mains asked for. And we start the process all over.

That's how we balance champions!

bourbonownsMay 11, 20168 votes

I agree with OP. Don't get me wrong, I am having both success and fun with new Vlad, I typically go Swift boots (works on self slows like your E btw), Rylias, Visage, Warmogs, 12/0/18 with Strength of Ages.

It's a lot of fun building tons of HP and having huge Tides of Blood damage, but I would trade some of this damage for a smoother, less clunky playstyle. Crimson Rush does tons of damage when you can hit it, but the speed boost is meaningless most of the time and the move is far too telegraphed. I would trade some power in other areas to have Crimson Rush speed boost for more. His unboosted Qs are also underwhelming, I pretty much only use them for Rylias slows. I would prefer if they did a slight amount more damage and if the Crimson Rush bonus damage was between 70-80% boosted damage instead of 100%.

The self slowing on his E is really annoying against skilled players. Like I said earlier, I get Swifts with offset the self slow somewhat and help me hit it, especially with Rylia's Qs to help, but I would trade damage or nerfing the E slow in exchange for having a lower health cost and no self slow.

Anyway I think new Vlad is fun but his weaknesses are too obvious, and his strengths are over the top against bad players.

Over InnsmouthMay 11, 20167 votes

I actually really like the sound of E having innate MagicPen. I don't think it should be quite as much as GP's barrels since Tides of Blood will be up to use far more often and (while very telegraphed) it's not as telegraphed as the barrels.

Still, it's a really good idea, step in the right direction since I think most people see Vlad's Q as healing and his E as damage.

Adding on, what if fully charged E's went through all units in range, rather than just the first ones hit.

WoonStruckMay 11, 201610 votes

Adding on, what if fully charged E's went through all units in range, rather than just the first ones hit.

Its a large part of the intended 'counterplay' Riot decided to add, so idk how likely that would be.

Honestly, I'd rather have the range indicator on E removed. It makes it far too easy to 'outplay' him. There's already a huge visual indicator over his head that encourages people to move away. The current range indicator encourages them to skirt the edges so they can dive in the moment its done and chunk him (with a bonus 10% max HP true damage! :D) without getting punished. Vlad's kit essentially outplays itself.

Same deal with the Q. There's a significant audio and visual queue for blood rush already. Why does there have to be a visible bar for the enemy on top of it that almost ensures you won't land it against anyone with half a brain?

WitchQueen AnnieMay 12, 20167 votes

It doesn't matter how much On Paper damage you give him if most of it can't be used.

His E is too telegraphed and clunky to land, and way too much information if given on his Q procs to the enemy and the window and the movement speed buff is a joke

Most of his damage can't be landed reliably

IN LANE: The opponent watches your yellow bar, moves back whenever it comes close to charging. Dodges 100% of your Crimson Rushes unless you burn Flash in a Gank.

Your E can't be used because they just have to hide behind minions.

TEAM FIGHTS: The opponent walks away whenever they see you charging E or they dash away at the last possible moment. Most of your Es miss, yet 100% of them chunk your own health.

Your empowered Qs are only useful if you have Hextech Belt and even then, the timing is wonky and unreliable.

Conclusion: Most of his damage is just way too reliable, you can up the numbers all you want but its fundamentally a mechanics issue

WoonStruckMay 12, 20165 votes

Someone actually got a red to comment on the telegraphing issue on Q inside the Annie stun indicator thread. They said they were gunna throw around the idea of getting rid of it. We may be able to get the same response on E, if we try hard enough.

There's no reason he deserves to be the most telegraphed champion in the game.

WitchQueen AnnieMay 12, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Someone actually got a red to comment on the telegraphing issue on Q inside the Annie stun indicator thread. They said they were gunna throw around the idea of getting rid of it. We may be able to get the same response on E, if we try hard enough.

There's no reason he deserves to be the most telegraphed champion in the game.

You know... other than the fact that the rework seems to have focused on

''How can we make it easier for enemies to beat Vlad''

with very little regards for, ''How can we make it more fun to play Vlad while keeping things fair''

WoonStruckMay 12, 20163 votes

If the indicators were removed, it would be a giant step forward for this rework, though. You have to admit that.

CowboyNinjaMay 12, 20164 votes

This is what I keep saying, but I feel like Vlad is up there with Teemo and Shaco among hated champions. Most people are happy he's even further in the gutter than he was.

CowboyNinjaMay 12, 20164 votes

Woonstruck. I believe in you. You're so vocal and for some reason people upvote you for saying the stuff all of us Vlad mains keep yelling but getting downvoted for.

With you I know we can make Vladimir great again!

woonstruckforpresident2016

Meep ManMay 11, 20166 votes

Can we also increase the Q Crimson Rush duration and reduce the W health cost? With the Q Crimson Rush duration, I often feel like I have to determine fights heavily in advance while also putting myself at risk by moving into Q range. I have to time my Qs, which themselves punish me, for 2.5 seconds of decent damage from my Q and (I have to admit) great healing. His W health cost, at least to me, is just too much right now. While his E cost is high, it has a high impact when you hit it (which is another problem in and of itself). His W damage got reduced in the rework and his health recovery (healing) was also overall reduced. Can the health cost be adjusted to help compensate on these healing reductions?

DarthSpectrumMay 12, 20166 votes

Vlad doesn't feel any healthier after the rework. Riot just implemented a bunch of gimmicks in his kit to make him less binary, but he still essentially does the same thing.

Vlad is still a nuisance against melee champions who can't kite, and he still struggles against ranged champions who can kite him. His Q didn't really change except with the power more focused on the third cast. But it is so telegraphed that unless your lane opponent is a minion, you are not going to land it. Crimson Rush needs to last longer, or at least it shouldn't decay in like 2 seconds. Enemies just walk out of range for that time and wait for it to expire.

His E is arguably worse than before. It does decent damage, but all the enemy has to do is hide behind one minion. Just one. His E honestly feels like the AP version of a weaker Darius decimate. Vlad is slowed when he fully charges the E and his opponent can just take that opportunity to walk away or get cover. At least Darius's Q actually does solid damage and Darius can slow or pull the champions back after.

His ultimate healing is just unnecessary. If anything, distribute it so he heals from landing abilities on champions or something.

Vlad is probably really strong if he plays against a computer and lands everything. However, now most people just walks away. Before the rework, Vlad is difficult to deal with because he can quickly Q E and either just walk out or pool. He can tower dive with R Q E , W, and then Q E again. Now Vlad needs to get his Crimson Rush and charge up his E to poke. His actions are so obvious the only time Vlad will get close enough to land his combo is if the enemy laner is baiting him for a gank.

Champion SkinMay 12, 20166 votes

Vlad E is also useless in duels (like laning) as it costs Vlad 10% of his max HP and only deals 10% of his max HP before MR.... which means he will likely deal more damage to himself then he does to the enemy

He also lost spell vamp and the useful healing increase on his E

ZT XperimentorMay 12, 20163 votes

If anything I'd say vlad feels more frail since his rework; with 2 abilities he chunks himself for 30% of his max health, but doesn't even do 1/4 of an enemy's health. He's way too choreographed and delayed to have any impact, ontop of all his bases being nerfed!

Baron of BreadMay 12, 20166 votes

I want to see more of what his new E was supposed to be: if I want I can pay lots of health to do lots of damage. I think this could be done by increasing the potential charge of Vlad's E and reducing it's cooldown. This would let me be cautious and just tap on cooldown for low health loss and low dps without prohibiting me from going into a big one when I see an opportunity to blast a squishy. I think (and could be easily wrong) that this would make Vlad feel less like a cooldown-centric mage and actually focus his play around his management of health.

If we don't want to get as drastic as my idea, I think the % MPen would be good. If I can't hit past tanks I should at least hit them hard.

J EevoMay 12, 20166 votes

This, so much. I've had a game where I went 2/0 in the early game, then the toplane opponent bought a maw and my E suddenly did more to me than to him. for the amount of life spent and special circumstance needed to land the E the payout is RIDICULOUSLY LOW. the slow doesn't help to land other abilites, it's just there, and the damage done in relation to the 10% life spent is way too small. I felt like I had a dead spell when facing an opponent with mres, electing not to use it because using it hurt me more than just ignoring it and spamming Q instead.

Pierce The VealMay 11, 20165 votes

His old E, while perhaps not as cool, was much stronger than his current one.

WoonStruckMay 11, 20164 votes

That is correct.

This is why I believe his E needs a change to increase its impact. Its simply too inefficient and weak against targets with MR, and adding bonus MR penetration on a full charge would help with that a lot without making him too overbearing.

BorsalinoMay 12, 20165 votes

I just want old Vlad back.

CynikaMay 12, 20162 votes

I miss old vlad as well, but new vlad does have potential.

They just need to focus more on QoL buffs instead of straight number buffs.

WoonStruckMay 12, 20165 votes

They don't put any effort into tuning champions anymore, if the current meta is any standard.

Its very unlikely they'll give him the QoL buffs he'll need, but that's why I made this thread, after all.

CowboyNinjaMay 12, 20161 votes

I don't think this is the case though. Everything in his new kit is designed around helping his opnonents out play him. Literally nothing helps him outplay his opnonents.

Even if the numbers were good it still feels like Riot strapped lead weights around his ankles in terms of movement and out-thinking and out positioning his oponents.

That proto-belt micro-dash should have been given to Vlad on his pool, E should not slow Vlad and should slow his enemies for 3s on full charge so if they are bad enough to get caught in it with all the freaking Mobility in the game, they are stuck with him. E self damage should be heavily mitigated if he succeeds in landing on a champion.

And Q probably a 3rd or 4th charge hold similar to Annie.

CynikaMay 12, 20162 votes

I know for a fact they won't increase CR buff duration,let alone have it hold charge (they said as much during their play tester live stream).

I'm just hoping they get rid or CR bar q CD tell, reduce health cost of e or give it bonus MPen on full charge, get rid e range indicator, and speed up healing from q/fix the buggy w interaction with it. Here's to hoping.

Cowgirl EdMay 12, 20165 votes

+1 Also, when we had Spellvamp part of his heal was actually instantaneous and that helped a lot. Reduce the Q particle time it's ridicolous

MTRXIMay 12, 20165 votes

Vlad was a fighter mage that excels at quick guaranteed damage in exchange for having no cc. The current Vlad has no guaranteed damage but marginally higher numbers in terms of damage. His higher cool down also took away a lot of his "fighter" aspect and made him more like a over bloated blood balloon that bursts every 4.5 seconds or so. My main beef is the inconsistencies of his damage output and his struggle to reach high priority targets.

His E should still allow the use of items while charging. So that he has the option to charge while dashing with his fancy new protobelt.
His E should not break his W
There should be no Crimson Rush bar to indicate Crimson Rush.
There should be no speed reduction penalty on Vlad for fully charging E
Leave his damage as is.

These proposed changes are to promote Vlad mechanics. Increasing his heal doesn't have any impact on team fights. It doesn't matter how long you survive if you can't bring anything on the table with that time being alive. Rather than making him straight up higher in numbers, lets give him better mechanics to work with.

WoonStruckMay 12, 20165 votes

Vlad was a fighter mage that excels at quick guaranteed damage in exchange for having no cc.

And my biggest beef with the rework, personally, is that he doesn't have any positive trade-offs for having low range and low CC now. He's just going to generally be an inferior champion with the direction of the rework. Range and CC are two VERY big deals on champions. Damage is another, and they practically removed the damage aspect of Vlad that made him function with his levels of range/cc.

But that's another issue aside from the goals of this thread.

The current Vlad has no guaranteed damage but marginally higher numbers in terms of damage.

He actually does less damage now. Its a little more upfront burst, but the DPS is pathetic to what it was. At least 2/3 of what it was.

His E should still allow the use of items while charging. So that he has the option to charge while dashing with his fancy new protobelt.

Agreed

His E should not break his W

Agreed

There should be no Crimson Rush bar to indicate Crimson Rush.

Agreed

There should be no speed reduction penalty on Vlad for fully charging E

Remove the slow as well; its pointless due to Rylai's being so obviously core on him and only eats up of some of Riot's magical 'power-budget' we hear about so much on anything that isn't an ADC.

Leave his damage as is.

Increase his burst via E innate magic pen, or increase his DPS via CDs and base damages (specifically Q). His low DPS right now is part of what stops him from being successful as well, as there's no benefit that's really felt for staying alive (outside of simply not being dead), despite your entire kit being focused around it now.

But again, this thread is about what's stopping him from being successful on a fundamental level. I want those issues addressed first and foremost.

Rather than making him straight up higher in numbers, lets give him better mechanics to work with.

% Magic pen on fully charged E, anyone? How about making Vlad's increased MS on Q a real mechanic that scales throughout the game (amount and duration), rather than just being useful level 1-3?

MTRXIMay 13, 20162 votes

When I said he has higher damage I meant initial burst is higher. Consequent damage afterwards got nerfed because it is nearly impossible to hit all 5 opponents now.

Also with point 5, I was taking into account of all the other changes I proposed. We want to fix Vlad. Not to break him to the opposite spectrum. But I do agree as is, Vlad gets crapped on hard by tanks.

My proposed changes were to highlight 1 thing: To actually be able to reach high priority targets. His main problem is when tanks take the hit, Vlad can't get to back row to make himself remotely useful with his current damage. So what ends up happening is Vlad will just ackwardly dip in and out of fights due to cooldowns (currently).

DtMayoMay 11, 20163 votes

I miss his old e already.

WoonStruckMay 11, 20165 votes

I'm honestly fine with the direction of his current E.

It just needs to made more efficient than it is without making its base numbers too high. You deal ~80% of the listed damage to any target, meaning it starts out inefficient for the HP you're paying. This only gets worse as people get MR, including scaling runes.

I'd like it if the range indicator were removed, since him charging is already extremely obvious, but I doubt Riot will remove that, despite it preventing him from functioning at decent MMRs.

bloodmothMay 11, 20163 votes

Here is an idea that may not be super popular

Bonus damage from E deals true damage.

Think of it, the health cost is effectively dealing 10% hp true damage to yourself, with 100mr you will pay 10% hp to deal 5% damage to your foe, thats pretty crappy!

Or perhaps it just has 100% magic penetration but is still AP damage, just so that he still scales from magic pen...

Champion SkinMay 12, 20161 votes

100% magic pen = true damage unless damage reduction...like alistar ult or Vlad gets exhausted... or damage increase like Vlad ult

And honestly that would be way too strong as it is an AoE ability which can hit up to 5 enemy champions

bloodmothMay 12, 20165 votes

Not exactly, as you said, damage reduction/amplification still affect it and so would MR, thats why i suggested that instead of true damage, as abyssal should still be a strong item on him.

To hit 5 he needs to play very well and get into the perfect position, at which point he deserves a cookie for his actions. And just to qualify, its only the 10% of his HP part of the spell that would penetrate magic resist, the rest is reduced, so it only increases when he hurts himself.

Not saying that with these numbers that its the perfect solution, but health costs against enemies with damage reduction feel like shit, especially when you can end up dealing more damage to yourself than your opponent!, this is to ensure that the reward is always worth the risk.

Champion SkinMay 12, 20162 votes

abyssal MR reduction wouldnt have any affect If the target has 100 MR..it will get reduced to 75 MR by abyssal and then Vladimir hits the target with E which has 100% magic pen so it is as if they have 0 MR (Magic pen cant lower MR below 0 so any magic pen would have no effect)

WoonStruckMay 12, 20163 votes

If he got MR penetration, I doubt it'd be a full 100%. AT MOST, and this is extremely unlikely, it would be 70% bonus magic resist.

If it were total, I can't imagine it going over 40-50%.

FovereMay 11, 20163 votes

I think OP has a good overall assessment of Vlad.

Increasing healing in R isn't going to affect him much at all.

His problems are putting all his Q power into a steroid with a 2.5 second window, and the risk/reward on usage of E.

Champion SkinMay 12, 20165 votes

There is no reward in using E in lane unless you want to push Why? Well because paying 10% of your max hp to deal 10% of your max HP before MR means you will likely lose more hp then you deal damage (especially if the target has built some MR)

Mr TickleMay 11, 20161 votes

they decided to rework all my champs :D cuz i like those umm battle mages .... swain... vladimir xD juggernauts got a buff, marksmans got a buff :D mages got a nerf :P at least some of them. now i dont know what champ to play in ranked top mid xD cuz all of my are top #10 lowest winrate in statistic.. tested them out and yea xD shitty

bloodmothMay 12, 20165 votes

I honestly thought his new gameplay was really sweet and that he felt strong, i think players need to adjust first, but he could still use a few love taps, but he gets countered by magic resist a little too hard thanks to his E cost