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It's a 4v5. It's been a 4v5 for 15 minutes. We have lost twice as many turrets as taken.

Barcid··85 votes·17,142 views

At this point the AFK is 10 levels behind and a good 7k gold behind.

Surrender. The fucking. Game.

Don't tell me "I want to try", drag the game out for 20 more minutes while the enemy slow-bleeds all of our objectives out from us, and try to say you're "just being positive".

You're being delusional and a dick.

If our team already consists of Cho/Tahm with both of us already going tank and you're a Lee Sin (oh, just for a hypothetical example, not naming any names of morons here) going fucking Cinderhulk/Warmog's and our only source of real damage is a fucking Zed - stop. Just stop. You are like a gambling addict who fails 9 times and says "NO, THIS TIME WE GOT IT. THIS TIME IT'LL GO BETTER!"

Learn to cut your losses, especially when half the rest of your team has to deal with this shit. If they don't want to, why do you insist on torturing them? You lose nothing more checking out now than losing it 10 minutes from now, and you actually fucking save time - you could move on and go do a new game! You could go do chores or something. Study homework. Literally anything with ten extra minutes to spare rather than grind out a horrible slow burn into a loss that you should damn well know isn't going to pay off.

So before this gets downvoted into oblivion by the "NEVER SURRENDER EVERYTHING WILL WORK OUT YAY HURRAY ALL DAY" crowd, I want you to realize something - oh don't worry, you won't actually realize it and you'll probably scoff it off and not learn a thing, but I'll say it anyway - "toxic optimism" is a thing. It's where you keep thinking everything will work out just right in the end despite ever-mounting problems, and you just ignore those. So when people try to point out the problem, your "blinding optimism" basically stomps out all ability for them to reason with you or even express their own feelings against you.

Nope. You just sit there with a shit-eating grin dragging us through the mud with you as you spout off how at the end there's a rainbow of skittles waiting for us even when we know we're just going to get beheaded.

You make everyone's time worse by being "optimistic" when you actually mean "balls to wall batshit delusional". Not only do I start hating you for dragging the game out when it's torturous as is, but I start hating you for trying to justify yourself.

Fuck you.

107 Comments

abca9851 votes

Imagine a bus right about to fall off a cliff. The brakes are only activated when 4 people agree to push a button. There are 5 passengers int he bus: one is in a coma, 3 are frenetically pressing their button, and the fifth one is chilling, thinking, "there's a chance the bus will magically grow wings and we will not die a painful and slow death". That's how I imagine this kind of people.

Illuminatra4 votes

not really how i imagine it.

what i see is just one lowlife thinking of a way to make other people feel his suffering and pressing no in hopes everyone gets as depressed as he/she/it feels all the time.

people that delay sure losses are in need of a perma ban but this is riot we are talking about so trolls will always make it past untouched .

sucks i cant tell him how i feel tho :)

floo3 votes

Eh.. tbf there is a different intention behind people that say no to make others suffer and people who think they can actually win.

Minimac20002 votes

{quoted}

Imagine a bus right about to fall off a cliff. The breaks are only activated when 4 people agree to push a button. There are 5 passengers int he bus: one is in a coma, 3 are frenetically pressing their button, and the fifth one is chilling, thinking, "there's a chance the bus will magically grow wings and we will not die a painful and slow death". That's how I imagine this kind of people.

Actually, if you fall off a cliff in a bus, you are quite likely to not die a painful and slow death so that guy is partially right. You will, however, hit the ground and probably all die instantly. Just fyi about your analogy :))))

Barcid2 votes

I dunno. I've heard time slows down during a disaster. Probably seems like an eternity while you're falling.

Herlgar1 votes

My god, dude. You're playing a game here. I'd surrender a 4v5, but you're losing like 10 minutes you were already ready to surrender by the time you started the match. No one's going to die.

Eleshakai1 votes

Except... there's literally no actual harm done to you if someone doesn't push the 'yes' button in League. Only a perception of 'wasted time'.

abca981 votes

{quoted}

Except... there's literally no actual harm done to you if someone doesn't push the 'yes' button in League. Only a perception of 'wasted time'.

Sure.

Eleshakai1 votes

That reeks of a sarcastic reply... so kindly tell me, if someone doesn't surrender and you have to play 10 minutes longer than you'd have otherwise had to... what harm is being done to you?

Environmentalist12 votes

I have won 4v5's before, in both norms and ranked, but yeah, there are unwinnable games for sure.

Barcid17 votes

I've won 4v5's as well before, but usually it's with something like a Veigar or a Kayn or somebody who does a lot of damage in an area and can basically hyper-carry if they're not countered or if they get so far ahead that there's basically no remedy.

2 actual tanks, a "tank", and a single target assassin fit literally none of those classifications. People are so up their own ass with the idea that "Nah, if I just play well and do this" that they forget that a massive chunk of the game is team comp, strategy, and building correctly. And they completely ignore when they've failed in all three of those other things and think that if they juuuuuuuust play it well...

Like going to a gun fight with a pool noodle and thinking "If I just guide the bullet into one end of the noodle and then have it travel through it and out the other end into the person shooting at me, I'll win."

The Anivia OTP2 votes

yeah , cho is .... a tank he deals ... no damages i guess, and do not scale onto lategame...

Herlgar1 votes

He has infinitely scaling health, true damage that scales with his max hp and % max hp damage. Cho can deal a surprising amount of damage and does scale into late game.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

r/woosh

Herlgar1 votes

oh whoops i stupid

Barcid1 votes

As a tank, sure. Tahm also does a good amount of damage for a tank.

You don't expect the tank to carry your damage, though, and his infinite scaling health is on champion kills and epic monsters after 6 stacks. You really need to put that little asterisk next to that point when you talk Cho because it's not Sion-esque - Cho can't just freely stack health on a whim from beginning to end.

ez mental boom10 votes

Wow, I've won a 3v5 before! Crazy! Outstanding! That was also when I was a 20/6 teemo with a 16/2 Yi

Losing a single player drops your chances of winning from 45-55% to the single digits. There's no point in trying if you don't have multiple team members who are ridiculously far ahead.

Aeszarck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vgbVQWOP,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-11-04T22:22:15.085+0000)

Wow, I've won a 3v5 before! Crazy! Outstanding! That was also when I was a 20/6 teemo with a 16/2 Yi

Losing a single player drops your chances of winning from 45-55% to the single digits. There's no point in trying if you don't have multiple team members who are ridiculously far ahead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/90vete/040_cleanse_ghost_nunu_and_135_tp_ghost_rammus_in/ This game where an Amumu, Brand, and Ekko won in Diamond V with two inters on their team has got to be the neatest thing I've seen. They weren't even that far ahead just looking at kills.

Barcid1 votes

Eh, people will get the wrong idea about that game.

One time a guy crashed into a lake and because he couldn't get his seat belt off in time (it was jammed from the impact), he drowned and died. He was still buckled in when they recovered the body.

So by that logic all seat belts are dangerous and you should never wear them ever, right?

People take freak occurrences - just complete outliers that have no reasonable expectation of happening and basically require all the stars and planets to align in order to occur - and go "SEE!? THIS IS PROOF! THIS PROVES MY POINT 100%!"

It's like finding the one study that says vaccines cause autism and using it amidst the near-toppling mountains of records showing otherwise.

EpicClam1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vgbVQWOP,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-11-04T22:22:15.085+0000)

Wow, I've won a 3v5 before! Crazy! Outstanding! That was also when I was a 20/6 teemo with a 16/2 Yi

Losing a single player drops your chances of winning from 45-55% to the single digits. There's no point in trying if you don't have multiple team members who are ridiculously far ahead.

I've won a 2v5 once but I really didn't contribte because I wasn't a good singed. I watched the Xin demolish everyone on the other team and won lol

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

I have won 4v5's before, in both norms and ranked, but yeah, there are unwinnable games for sure.

But it's actually a 3v5 because one of the people DC'd, and the other one is clearly braindead for voting no.

dragfin127 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vgbVQWOP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-04T21:21:41.074+0000)

At this point the AFK is 10 levels behind and a good 7k gold behind.

Surrender. The fucking. Game.

Don't tell me "I want to try", drag the game out for 20 more minutes while the enemy slow-bleeds all of our objectives out from us, and try to say you're "just being positive".

You're being delusional and a dick.

If our team already consists of Cho/Tahm with both of us already going tank and you're a Lee Sin (oh, just for a hypothetical example, not naming any names of morons here) going fucking Cinderhulk/Warmog's and our only source of real damage is a fucking Zed - stop. Just stop. You are like a gambling addict who fails 9 times and says "NO, THIS TIME WE GOT IT. THIS TIME IT'LL GO BETTER!"

Learn to cut your losses, especially when half the rest of your team has to deal with this shit. If they don't want to, why do you insist on torturing them? You lose nothing more checking out now than losing it 10 minutes from now, and you actually fucking save time - you could move on and go do a new game! You could go do chores or something. Study homework. Literally anything with ten extra minutes to spare rather than grind out a horrible slow burn into a loss that you should damn well know isn't going to pay off.

So before this gets downvoted into oblivion by the "NEVER SURRENDER EVERYTHING WILL WORK OUT YAY HURRAY ALL DAY" crowd, I want you to realize something - oh don't worry, you won't actually realize it and you'll probably scoff it off and not learn a thing, but I'll say it anyway - "toxic optimism" is a thing. It's where you keep thinking everything will work out just right in the end despite ever-mounting problems, and you just ignore those. So when people try to point out the problem, your "blinding optimism" basically stomps out all ability for them to reason with you or even express their own feelings against you.

Nope. You just sit there with a shit-eating grin dragging us through the mud with you as you spout off how at the end there's a rainbow of skittles waiting for us even when we know we're just going to get beheaded.

You make everyone's time worse by being "optimistic" when you actually mean "balls to wall batshit delusional". Not only do I start hating you for dragging the game out when it's torturous as is, but I start hating you for trying to justify yourself.

Fuck you.

Until RIOT decides to pull their heads out and start banning the most toxic offense in online gaming instead of giving them a timeout like they do then we all have to deal with this bullshit.

OneMustFall6 votes

Don't. Play. Ranked.

I have won so many 4v5s it's not even funny. Stop telling other people to surrender when you signed up to play a 40 minute game with a team. They have a right to expect their team to stay competitive until the end.

God the fucking sportsmanship in the League community is absolute shit.

ninjaroxas3 votes

{quoted}

Don't. Play. Ranked.

I have won so many 4v5s it's not even funny. Stop telling other people to surrender when you signed up to play a 40 minute game with a team. They have a right to expect their team to stay competitive until the end.

God the fucking sportsmanship in the League community is absolute shit.

I'm sure you've lost many 4v5s as well. Games im sure were clear losses that you dragged out anyways. Never surrendering doesnt make you a good sportsman at all, you are just part of the problem while acting like you have some kind of moral high ground Also you "sign up" to play a 5v5 game, not a 4v5.

OneMustFall2 votes

{quoted}

I'm sure you've lost many 4v5s as well. Games im sure were clear losses that you dragged out anyways. Never surrendering doesnt make you a good sportsman at all, you are just part of the problem while acting like you have some kind of moral high ground Also you "sign up" to play a 5v5 game, not a 4v5.

You don't understand the concept of sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is not quitting the second you feel the odds are against you. Sportsmanship is showing grace in defeat and playing out a lost game even though you know your chance of coming back is very slim.

ninjaroxas1 votes

{quoted}

You don't understand the concept of sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is not quitting the second you feel the odds are against you. Sportsmanship is showing grace in defeat and playing out a lost game even though you know your chance of coming back is very slim.

I never said give up at the slightest set back. But when a game is clearly over rather then bet on that 1% chance you'll win you should just ff and let everyone move on to the next game. Let me tell you something, when you are forcing people to stay in a game. No one in it gives two twigs about how "sportsman" you are but you. Your team just hates you and the enemy team doesn't give a damn if you ff or not

OneMustFall1 votes

{quoted}

I never said give up at the slightest set back. But when a game is clearly over rather then bet on that 1% chance you'll win you should just ff and let everyone move on to the next game. Let me tell you something, when you are forcing people to stay in a game. No one in it gives two twigs about how "sportsman" you are but you. Your team just hates you and the enemy team doesn't give a damn if you ff or not

Who cares if a bunch of quitters don't like you? I don't like them, they're soft. And I'm sure the enemy team wants a win but I don't think anyone wants to win in 15 minutes. It takes almost that long just to get into the game. The whole point is to play the game and now everyone has to wait another ten minutes just to play again? Sounds like a good time.

ninjaroxas1 votes

{quoted}

Who cares if a bunch of quitters don't like you? I don't like them, they're soft. And I'm sure the enemy team wants a win but I don't think anyone wants to win in 15 minutes. It takes almost that long just to get into the game. The whole point is to play the game and now everyone has to wait another ten minutes just to play again? Sounds like a good time.

So you're just selfish then. Complete disregard for others that don't agree with you to the point of insulting them for so. If a team is trying to ff at 15 mins they are most likely getting stomped and I can assure you the other team enjoys it

Stupafly1 votes

People say "the he is clearly over" ALL the time... Alot of the time I do not agree.

Let me tell you something when you are demanding people to surrender. I can decide for myself.

Barcid3 votes

Sportsman: a person who exhibits qualities especially esteemed in those who engage in sports, as fairness, courtesy, good temper, etc.

So what you're trying to argue against us is that we should have good temper. Which all right.

However, on the flip side, what you completely lack is courtesy, I.E. consideration for your fellow team members and realizing that it is not just all about you but about the other teammates as well. A courtesy would be ending the game early and not dragging out a lost game that would cause every other person on the team frustration and stress. Believe it or not, fairness also falls into this as 3 (or 4 for that matter) people should not pay the price of 1 person's wants.

So, my good sir. You know absolutely nothing about sportsmanship and are doing no less than regurgitating buzz words that you've heard over and over again without any actual understanding. You are actually the definition of hypocritical by trying to use this argument in this instance.

Dracocrash5 votes

"someone made me stay in a game for 5 minutes longer than i should have, and I'm too much of a baby to handle it so ill go on boards and make a whole hate post about that person"

In Borke Veritas1 votes

{quoted}

"someone made me stay in a game for 5 minutes longer than i should have, and I'm too much of a baby to handle it so ill go on boards and make a whole hate post about that person"

Well he has to make that post here because say one meanie-weenie word about/to them in the actual game and Riot with their wussy little hate-brigade of aforementioned toxic optimists will banhammer his damn arse faster than you can press no on a surrender vote to waste people's time some more.

Dracocrash1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yoru No Ikimono,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vgbVQWOP,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2018-11-05T13:55:31.665+0000)

Well he has to make that post here because say one meanie-weenie word about/to them in the actual game and Riot with their wussy little hate-brigade of aforementioned toxic optimists will banhammer his damn arse faster than you can press no on a surrender vote to waste people's time some more.

I think the point I'm trying to make is: at what point can you justify playing a game if it negatively impacts your mental health to such an extent that you want to call every person who doesn't want to surrender a "delusional torturer" just because they want to play the game they que'd up for to the end? xd

Barcid2 votes

Because you're generalizing. The game mentioned was a game lost by all reasonable extent save the legendary "every person on the enemy team disconnects" - which usually results in loss prevented (since that's basically a server-wide issue) and a total of 10 LP gain tops when it occurs, so pretty much a piss in the wind to begin with.

Everyone (assumedly) queue'd up for the game until the very end - that's the point of joining the game. But that argument literally doesn't apply here since the end can be introduced earlier via a surrender button to begin with and the game was in all realism decided by that point - you can't win with a single target assassin trying to do two people's worth of damage on top of trying to carry 3 tanks in damage. That is beyond the scope of realistic expectation.

So when somebody says "I believe we can totally win" when anyone with the mental capacity of a braindead frog could tell that the game is by all accounts decided, that is called a delusion - and dragging 3 other people along for the ride because you feel in your huggy wuggy heart that oh it'll all go swell is you basically holding the game hostage. That's you. You're the only one that wants to stay and you are willing in your selfishness to make several other people completely miserable.

The fact that you legitimately can't comprehend how one person forcing the continuation of a blood-letting is just dickish is telling of what you're like. How about considering your teammates over just yourself sometimes?

Oleandervine2 votes

{quoted}

"someone made me stay in a game for 5 minutes longer than i should have, and I'm too much of a baby to handle it so ill go on boards and make a whole hate post about that person"

Let's say there are 6 games in your history. 3 are losses. Let's say in those 3 games, your surrender vote was delayed by 5 minutes each because someone chose not to surrender. Let's say in your 3 wins, your opponent's surrender votes were delayed by 5 minutes each by someone on their team. Of 6 games, each with 5 minute delays on surrender votes, that's an extra 30 minutes WASTED because people don't man up and surrender. That's about an entire new game's worth of time thrown to the wind because of a die hard "NEVER GIVE UP NEVER SURRENDER UNLESS I DIE AT THE KEYBOARD." Don't waste people's time, because that's more time they could have in a new game.

Dracocrash1 votes

{quoted}

Let's say there are 6 games in your history. 3 are losses. Let's say in those 3 games, your surrender vote was delayed by 5 minutes each because someone chose not to surrender. Let's say in your 3 wins, your opponent's surrender votes were delayed by 5 minutes each by someone on their team. Of 6 games, each with 5 minute delays on surrender votes, that's an extra 30 minutes WASTED because people don't man up and surrender. That's about an entire new game's worth of time thrown to the wind because of a die hard "NEVER GIVE UP NEVER SURRENDER UNLESS I DIE AT THE KEYBOARD." Don't waste people's time, because that's more time they could have in a new game.

Conversly, you could save 180 minutes of your time by not playing any league games at all ! :D

stone the blacks3 votes

i have the fun motto of if someone is toxic you may not surrender if your gonna be an ass hat don't expect pity from me

and besides playing from behind gives good practice as mistakes are punished much harder so you learn to avoid them

Inkling Commando2 votes

[deleted]

Illuminatra12 votes

why would i ever risk getting a leaver buster because riot has no clue how to make votes actually realistic?

Inkling Commando1 votes

so you aren't held hostage in a game. there is always a way out but people never take it. they just demand people say yes to a ff when they dont want to or they threaten them with a report.

Illuminatra7 votes

Get punished out of game > get punished in game

What a great solution

ez mental boom19 votes

Being forced to choose between wasting 10-20 extra minutes waiting for the game to end, or waste ONE HUNDRED MINUTES waiting for leaverbuster queues?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Sounds like a hostage situation to me

Raiyza2 votes

It is always possible.

But I agree tho. unless I'm in a promo series, just don't waste my time. Especially in gold/silver elo when players really don't know how to make a comeback.

SobeDragon2 votes

There are always going to be outliers to the situation he is painting, FYI. The problem is some players don't see that. They think all games are winnable, even when they are massively far behind and die 10 times, they think it's positioning or op champ. Did you ever just consider the game is over?

In other sports they call it.

When you play football and you lose a quarterback, and your down 30 points and there's only a quarter left to play and you haven't scored more than a field goal since the first quarter, wouldn't you want to leave that game?

Riot gives you the opportunity to wash that game, and move on, TAKE IT. Sometimes when you feed an akali 3 kills before ten minutes, the game can be over. It happens. Moving on actually increases your ability to move up in ELO. If you are better, a larger pool of games will cause your rank to rise. 3 games in two hours where you lose 2 doesn't generate as much as if you won 3 but surrendered 2 in that same two hours. That's why people want to surrender.

OneMustFall4 votes

{quoted}

There are always going to be outliers to the situation he is painting, FYI. The problem is some players don't see that. They think all games are winnable, even when they are massively far behind and die 10 times, they think it's positioning or op champ. Did you ever just consider the game is over?

In other sports they call it.

When you play football and you lose a quarterback, and your down 30 points and there's only a quarter left to play and you haven't scored more than a field goal since the first quarter, wouldn't you want to leave that game?

Riot gives you the opportunity to wash that game, and move on, TAKE IT. Sometimes when you feed an akali 3 kills before ten minutes, the game can be over. It happens. Moving on actually increases your ability to move up in ELO. If you are better, a larger pool of games will cause your rank to rise. 3 games in two hours where you lose 2 doesn't generate as much as if you won 3 but surrendered 2 in that same two hours. That's why people want to surrender.

No you're wrong. In other sports there are no surrenders. There are historic comebacks. In football, teams have come back from down 35-0. People who quit and stop playing in football when down are kicked off the team. Same with any sport. This whole idea of surrendering is weakness and should be abolished.

Baby Ghoul2 votes

I hate when people hold the game hostage like this.

zaxscat1 votes

What if surrender votes stacked, like the first is 3/yes1no/1afk then the second one is 3yes2no (afk comes back and vtoes no) and the system adds the scond and the first vote together and drops the afk vote making it 6yes 3 no out of ten there for surrendering the game.

Barcid2 votes

I mean, I like the intention, but if I had to try keeping track of that and doing the math on the fly in the middle of a game I'd probably burn out mentally.

zaxscat1 votes

Then make it just the first two two votes and drop it after . I was thinking hopefully some thing is done tho.

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