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Riot, you can't make games shorter

Barcid··227 votes·7,710 views

Or I suppose I should say "shouldn't", as making games shorter in League means that each game just ends in one side curbstomping the other by 20-25 minutes with no ability to fight back besides the enemies themselves doing stupid shit. And that's how it is right now: either curbstomping or painstakingly long to the point of exhausting its welcome.

So for those wondering why this can't be the case in League for the game to be healthy, the answer's actually simple:

League's not built for it. It is actually impossible for this to be healthy.

All MOBA's following League's build tend to take the same amount of time when they're well balanced: 30-40 minutes average. So in order to achieve the shorter game times, we'll have to look at one of the very few examples in which games commonly end in half the time, and that's HotS.

So here's how HotS plays out every game:

You spawn, you wait 30 seconds to be able to head to lane while everyone prepares.

In the first actual minute, there is a teamfight.

After this, the players spread out to soak lanes for about 3-4 minutes with 1-2 players roaming between each lane. On two-lane maps there's instead a solo and a quad lane and roaming's minimal.

This ends once the first objective point becomes activated in which case the rest of the game is basically League's endgame: teamfights on teamfights on teamfights on brief breaks to clear before teamfighting again. Then the game ends after this occurs enough times.

League can't do this. League can't do this because you work on an item/laning system. It takes 10 minutes to get halfway to a game phase where a HotS game has already gotten to, and that's just how your game is built. Plain and simple. League is not made to be short, and when it is it's a fucking mess. Trying to make shorter times healthy for your game would just transform it into another game altogether.

That's the foundation you have set up. So please try to focus on making those 30-40 minute games as balanced and enjoyable as possible and stop fretting over length.

163 Comments

Niaphim79 votes

I have the same feeling. In an attempt to shorten games it is possible to reach such extremes that one single teamfight would decide the entire game (and we are not exactly far from that situation).

I picked up League in season 3 and liked it because of how it had multiple layers and components, and now some of them are being trivialized. One of examples is long laning phase with trading that I enjoyed so much as a support player. Currently it is transformed into a 4-5 man bot fiesta that ends shortly after 10 minute mark. Remember when we had a "200 cs at 20 minutes" mark to achieve? Good luck getting this score in the current meta. I get that farming for 20 minutes may sound like a chore, but in the meantime it allowed for some strategic planning for both junglers and laners.

Divewing31 votes

Funny thing is, we "are" in a tank meta.

Azir Ryze Vayne Velkoz Jinx should be top tier picks.

They can't because to be top tier right now they also need to be stronger early, which completely breaks them (shit vayne deals with squishies better than tanks right now by IE-Shiv 3 shotting them off huge AD+empowered autos)

Arc Atlas13 votes

Why would Ryze be strong in a tank meta? A tank Meta makes Ryze incredibly easy to lock down with CC and burst him. His range isn't good enough, at least Azir could truly stay on the back line.

JustSmileGuys1 votes

[deleted]

Knoyle7 votes

The difference is Ryze has to be in the thick of it to really do much and that means he is as vulnerable as the frontliners while being squishier. meanwhile champs like jinx and vel can sit in the back and still contribute quite a bit. The only reason I would put Vayne in this list is her max% hp true damage.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

I feel like Jinx IS a top tier adc right now.

Sure she isn't the limelight like Twitch right now, but at least in my games I am having wild success with her right now.

Divewing2 votes

I have a 50% win rate on Azir, doesn't mean he's balanced

Sraeg20136 votes

We are in "that situation" already.

A misplaced teamfight around 15 minute mark is enough to lose an entire lane worth of towers and an inhibitor depending on intervals in which the enemy players were killed.

The reason games reach 30 minute mark is because people dick around dancing around baron or dragon, where they could simply zerg rush a different lane just like they did the first one, except easier, because somebody HAS to defend from supers.

Not to mention this utterly retarded minion pushing mechanic basically preventing the losing team from creating any pressure without manually and physically dragging minions to the enemy tower.

"But it helps the losing team to get more gold!"

I don't fucking need gold when the enemy team is raping my inhibitor for fuck's sake.

the weeaboo38 votes

I love long games. The back and forth. The small mistakes making the game. 40 minutes with the final 10 being the tense shit. I live for it. Too bad I get one of those maybe one in 30 games.

salty testi16 votes

[deleted]

Wildlife13 votes

Any sport gets boring when you already know the outcome before had, and the LCS is like that now. Used to watch it 2 years ago, but since last year everything became predictable and got boring. That's just killing the dead, at this point.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

Like predicting SKT winning so fucking much.

Melledoneus14 votes

I disagree with one thing.

In the beginning of a League game, there IS a teamfight. It's the potential teamfight that comes from an invade. Well, by LCS strategic terms, anyway.

Besides that tiny, miniscule, almost non-related detail, this is true. Making games by default shorter makes Summoner's Rift, a map that is big because things NEED to be slower, not much different than a game of Blood Moon in pace.

Before we used to say it was funny to end a game that short after a massive snowball. Now it's become the norm and it undermines the value of strategy and defence.

Teridax6813 votes

I agree with the conclusion here. Structurally, League is not built for short games, and currently Riot's way of accelerating them has come at a major cost in fairness, as matches are much more snowbally and often feel one-sided as a result. The only way to accelerate the game in a healthy manner would be to alter more fundamental systems, i.e. structures, leveling, itemization, etc., all of which I think could use an update, but which could require a vast amount of work and would be very risky. The better move in the meantime I feel should be to accelerate other game modes, namely TT, ARAM, and the RGM set, so that they offer bite-sized fun in contrast to Summoner's Rift's full-course meal. There currently is a bit of a time difference, but I'm not sure it's significant enough, particularly in ARAM where matches can drag on for too long in certain phases.

Wildlife15 votes

ARAM's are way worse than SR in the moment. The game is decided in the first 3 minutes and they end before minute 15, it is just not fun anymore, they are too short to strategize and they arent fun cause its just about the snowball all the time

PaladinNO2 votes

ARAM's are way worse than SR in the moment.

You can thank this one for that:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ou8FmdQG-aram-changes-for-710

Wildlife13 votes

I know, i have reduced my time in League since that. I hated the changes, sometimes i spend more time in the queue than in game. There is no feeling of fighting back or close matches, its just boring.

Only waiting for URF and One-for-All, and that will be the only game modes ill play, until they break the game too much and those game modes become unplayable too.

FakeGravity12 votes

Well look at aram. Beside the clear annoying cases where one team have a clear advantage or the other just have terrible champions, there are some good games where poke comps beat the tanks or were the tanks just deathball the other team For those games that actually reach the end game it is often one teamfight that till the balance

But normal games can get there so fast due gold limitations and increasing gold might make some champions that are only good because everyone else is horrible early start to suck because now they have very little time to get an advantage

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

no one but the try hard aram accounts take aram seriously plus its clearly isn't balanced because it clearly favors ranged poke comps

Breaku12 votes

hard engage counters poke comps, even in aram :)

FilDaFunk12 votes

Yeah, short games don't allow for catchup.

StarGuardianWeeb10 votes

I also find HOTS is waaayyy easier. Like once I learned the individual champs (or heroes for accuracy) it was a cakewalk getting the nexus challenge stuff.

But agreed stop worrying about length rito and buff those dang towers already. Freaking jenga blocks.

Wildlife18 votes

Even Jenga blocks protect me more than these feeble twigs they call towers

StarGuardianWeeb4 votes

good point when jenga blocks fall people actually feel pressure lmao

hotarse8 votes

I am one of those holdouts from season 1. I watched a lot of professional play. Never before has it been so ridiculous than it is now. You can take a Bo3 between two teams who are tied in the standings and end up with one sided game after one sided game. Both teams take turns getting early advantage and end up wipping the other around for 25 more minutes after that. Usually it's worthless to watch the game past the 10 minute mark because most of the time by then, the winner is already decided. I can't stand what LoL became. Somewhere along the way they got rid of whoever was making the game great and brought in the jackasses who gave us what it turned into.

3TWarrior2 votes

sometime in season 5, the decisions stopped making sense

Thilmer5 votes

Rigth now every game is obviosuly win or lose in the first 10 minutes. I'm seeing an alarming number of surrenders at minute 15 because the match is decided and people don't want to waste another five minutes while the enemy team boost their KDAs.

This has been the worst season in that department.

GentlemanGhidora5 votes

So...is THIS why I saw a feedback box (with checkboxes strongly agree to strongly disagree) after a game last night, asking me if my game (which lasted 18 minutes) was longer than an hour?

Please, don't make them shorter. You would need to ramp up the power level and overall value of everything to the point where the game is, unlike the naysayers exaggerations, WOULD be "over" in as little as champion select.

The 14th Angel4 votes

i blame rift herald.

Weasel Kensei2 votes

Rift Herald is just part of the problem. In most cases its just a win more mechanic to reward the winning team.

Its kind of like Call of Duty where you beat a bunch of guys asses so you get a helicopter to call in to help you beat some more asses... WINNING!? WIN MOAR!

Aside from it being a win more device, the game is pretty snowbally already, it will probably just kill 1 tower and damage another in most cases, and it kills a tower about as fast as an ADC will 10 minutes later. Sure it shortens games, but its just a portion of the overall problem.

Breaku11 votes

Win more?

It's to give you something to do when your top side is your strong side, other than tping your top down to bot to go for dragon

LXII3 votes

I think you just described exactly what they said though? Your top is already doing well, so now you get a free Giant Scuttler to help them do even better!

I think as a mechanic it's not too bad, and I certainly love using it, but their point still stands.

Hexs Fortune3 votes

I see more comparisons to Heroes of the Storm than to Dota 2. It feels like Dota 2 is becoming less relevant.

The Stabby Tabby5 votes

Not really, Dota is just vastly different to every other MOBA right now, the game is still the most popular steam title by a longshot.

In Dota2 the games consistently last over 40 minutes, which puts it in a league of its own.

LunSeiSleidee3 votes

I'll be blunt.

The longer the match, the less I play the game.

Not everyone always has 1 hour+ of time to fully dedicate to a videogame. In fact, if you can constantly find a hour to absolutely dedicate to a match, it means you're doing something wrong with your life and you should stop and consider how come you can always find so much time for ONE videogame match.

I love League, but match length is a big turnoff.

After the match clocks at 30+ minutes, I start to get a little frisky. At 40+ minutes I just want it to be over.

I understand this is a game mostly played by an underage demographic who still has not acquired the concept of time. When you're so young, it often feels like you have all the time of the world, and hanging out with people or studying always seem like stuff you can do later.

So I'm expecting downvotes on this comment. But what can I say. Riot will ultimately do as they see fit, but there is a reason why Blizzard and other modern mobas are honing the length of the match so it doesn't feel like a chore.

UpDownLeftRightAB35 votes

You'd die if you knew that in beta, games lasted 60-90 minutes on average and were fun for it's entirety. Each game was like an hour long RPG rather than a 20 minute kill fest. It sounds like you would enjoy Bloodline Champions or whatever it's current remake is called, those games are over in minutes. Saying people are doing something wrong with their life by finding time to play a video game, I'd say they are more in control of their lives. It's your time, spend it how you want, but league was not designed to be fast and the catering to this more...casual play-style has hurt the games longevity, in my opinion.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

So, a game is "casual" if it lasts less than 30 minutes? You seem to confuse complexity with sheer tedious length.

GGLineaR17 votes

Flawless rebuttal. You really just systematically dismantled his entire argument by picking that one line out of context.

Really, well done, sir.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

{quoted}

Flawless rebuttal. You really just systematically dismantled his entire argument by picking that one line out of context.

Really, well done, sir.

That "line" was his entire argument. But wait, this is turned into a witch hunt and I'm the witch, isn't it?

UpDownLeftRightAB13 votes

You seem to have missed a point, quite frankly, the point. The games were more fun for the regular player when they were longer. I talked nothing of complexity being game length, the game is fairly simple and straightforward, most obscure or complex thinking has been taken out over the years. That came more from how riot chose to balance the game around a meta, rather than letting players discover new meta. But the point I was making, was this, compacting of the game, has made it less fun and more of a...chore, as you say. That is a very tedious 20 minutes, with more pressure rather than fun heaped into it.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

If fun is the problem, shouldn't they focus on fixing the fun factor rather than the length factor?

I haven't noticed any difference of fun, if anything, there was a period some months ago when games would always end around the 25 minute mark and that made the game funnier for me because it didn't feel like it was dragging on.

And how did you decide that the majority of the players prefers longer matches? There's a reason Riot tried to decrease the length. Unless you think an internet forum represents a majority.

UpDownLeftRightAB6 votes

Well, the game has...changed, I wouldn't say improved over the years. For anyone who played it initially it's gotten weirder, everyone I know from beta has quit because of the changes to experience, towers, kill gold, comebacks, items, etc. Talking to other people around the game, it's been a general consensus as far as I've seen, people miss when there were longer games, when comebacks were possible. It all just felt more..skillful, fair? The depth of knowledge to hold off a push and turtle was necessary to solo climb, as opposed to the current state, where Riot has made closing out a game quickly a priority vs the slower more methodical methods of playing the game. It's like playing chess, there are those who like the long thinking man's game, or those who like blitz chess. Each caters to it's own player-base, some are better at one style, some the other. It's just here, we can't exactly go back and play the version that the older players liked and competed in. Instead, we have this, compacted version of the same game, which lost some of the more subtle interaction and fun of having a game fully play out every time.

IGotScuttleCrabs11 votes

Idk man. My life seems to be on a good track. Got a great paying job in data and security and I run my own job sites. Looking to start a side business as well. Live with my gf of 5 years. Kid on the way. Got pets. Live in the chaos of new Jersey and work in the madhouse of New York. It takes me up to two hours to get to work. I'm only 29 so I don't know what you consider being an adult. But I still manage 15+ games a week and have plenty to of free time to study and teach myself 3d design. And down in low elo, games still last at least 30 minutes and I wish they'd last longer.

But hey, if all that means I'm doing something wrong with my life then fucking up feels pretty good. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

LunSeiSleidee3 votes

Just a pro tip: people who describe in detail how much their life is good and they totally have everything they want...... are usually people who are only trying to convince themselves.

IGotScuttleCrabs3 votes

Pro pro tip. Telling people that they're doing something wrong with their life usually means you're not satisfied with your own and just want to bring others down to tour level. And I'll gladly counter your opinion that wanting long games or playing for a long period of time means you're doing something wrong with your life.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

Yeah, I'm not satisfied with my life..... but thankfully I'm not as pathetic as to make up tales about how great things are going. Look, buddy, I'm sorry, but it shows that you're really pushing it to show how lucky you are. Which means you aren't lucky, and can't accept it.

Now to get back on topic, facts are facts: game length requires more time, not everyone has always has 1 hour of constant time for a single videogame match.

IGotScuttleCrabs2 votes

¯_(ツ)_/¯ Whatever dude. You enjoy your life if you can and I'll enjoy mine.

inplane4 votes

{quoted}

I'll be blunt.

The longer the match, the less I play the game.

Not everyone always has 1 hour+ of time to fully dedicate to a videogame. In fact, if you can constantly find a hour to absolutely dedicate to a match, it means you're doing something wrong with your life and you should stop and consider how come you can always find so much time for ONE videogame match.

I love League, but match length is a big turnoff.

After the match clocks at 30+ minutes, I start to get a little frisky. At 40+ minutes I just want it to be over.

I understand this is a game mostly played by an underage demographic who still has not acquired the concept of time. When you're so young, it often feels like you have all the time of the world, and hanging out with people or studying always seem like stuff you can do later.

So I'm expecting downvotes on this comment. But what can I say. Riot will ultimately do as they see fit, but there is a reason why Blizzard and other modern mobas are honing the length of the match so it doesn't feel like a chore.

Well, that's a MOBA for you lol. If you don't like long match times, don't play MOBAs. It's clear that it isn't your cup of tea.Play arena shooters like Overwatch. They usually last less than 15 minutes and half an hour at most.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

You haven't played many mobas, isn't it? Only DotA2 and League have long match times. Other mobas don't go past the 20/30 minutes mark often.

inplane3 votes

{quoted}

You haven't played many mobas, isn't it? Only DotA2 and League have long match times. Other mobas don't go past the 20/30 minutes mark often.

Look back at the very first few MOBAs to be created. The ones that stem from a Warcraft mod and took at least an hour to finish one game. Those defined what a MOBA is supposed to be. Games like Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, and Starcraft are also MOBAs and they take at least an hour to complete a match because that's what makes them fun.

The ones you see that don't go past 20/30 minutes are victims of the 20-minute-MOBA craze. MOBAs that are made to finish in a small amount of time because people demand it. Some people don't like long games because it's simply not their interest, but they play it anyways because it's popular ala League of Legends and MOBAs being the next big hit right now. League games only began to become shorter when its Esports scene began to pick up, thus the game becoming more popular. People demanded the game to become more flashy and less boring, so Riot did that and created insane burst metas and awful matchmaking in Season 5 and 6 to quicken match times.

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