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Spear of Shojin is a testament to the utterly idiotic balancing in this game

Barcid·2/7/2019, 1:45:22 PM·112 votes·32,245 views

While most champs have to balance out CDR and mana costs together, the champs this item excels on are those purely balanced around their CDRs. So while you can help to mitigate the problem that mana can cause (IE being completely unable to attack with spells) with items, no item besides the tear items really completely remove that weakness, and the tear items take significant time to build up.

The spear on the other hand completely mitigates the CDR weakness - simply auto and voila, 25% of your cooldowns are gone. Unless you are stunlocked for a literal 6 seconds, you will spike your power immensely with this item. There's no build-up, there's no ramping into this item - it's purchase and done.

Now we can argue that ER did the same thing and nobody was truly broken with that item - but the thing is that ER granted no bulk and restored mana on hit, meaning half of the stats and effects the item gave out were utterly wasted one these champs. To go ER rush would mean you were squishier than all hell, so viably if you were stunlocked during your ER ragefest, you would actually die.

Spear throws that idea out the window. Now it's a bruiser item mitigating all of a bruiser's weaknesses immediately on buy - it may be expensive, but you cover all your early game bases with the item: health for your early bulk, AD to do damage, and your cooldowns are effectively rendered irrelevant. It has the effective power of Triforce with less cost.

This item should never have existed and yet you're insistent on putting it in. Like, why the hell don't you realize that giving an item the ability to mitigate an entire class' weaknesses is completely unhealthy?

99 Comments

kingDeDeDarius2/7/2019, 1:54:15 PM71 votes

I just hate essence flare and think it's a completely unfair active against anyone who can't abuse it.

ValyrianBlade2/7/2019, 4:12:47 PM14 votes

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Now we can argue that ER did the same thing and nobody was truly broken with that item - but the thing is that ER granted no bulk and restored mana on hit, meaning half of the stats and effects the item gave out were utterly wasted one these champs.

Spear throws that idea out the window. Now it's a bruiser item mitigating all of a bruiser's weaknesses immediately on buy - it may be expensive, but you cover all your early game bases with the item: health for your early bulk, AD to do damage, and your cooldowns are effectively rendered irrelevant.

I largely thought the same at first, but a closer inspection proves this wrong.

Old essence reaver cost 3000g New spear of shojin costs 3400g

Further, old essence reaver gave 75AD. New spear gives 60AD.

Finally, old ER gave 0 health New spear gives 250 health

So even if we entirely ignore the mana aspect of old essence reaver: Gold cost is up 400 Ad value is down 525 Health value is up 667

Net effect: 400+525-667= 258

That's to say, if AD and Health are valued equally and mana is worth nothing, the item was nerfed by 258g.

Further: Since the new item costs more, it will delay your completion of it (longer downtime before the Champions become super powered), and it will delay the completion of every other complete item in their build (if they rush it, they'll get Trinity 400g later, they'll get their defensive items 400g later, etc...).

However since it's more slot efficient (250hp is worth more than 15AD, especially on these Champions) they will be stronger at full build. This is the only real argument to have against the change.

Now with all of that said: essence reaver was indeed beyond busted on these guys, and spear will remain busted on them. It is a problem and needs to be addressed. However don't act like this made it worse - it is a nerf to the item so the balance team aren't complete idiots. They're moving in the right direction.

Hayaishi22/7/2019, 6:13:00 PM12 votes

This game will never change, the main problem in this game is how r%%%%%ed CDR is. Everyone who can't run 40% CDR is garbage.

AgentBlack2/7/2019, 2:41:38 PM7 votes

Unless you are stunlocked for a literal 6 seconds, you will spike your power immensely with this item.

You'll spike after you find 3400 gold to build it. That's an expensive rush.

It gives mediocre health with no resistances, so users can be bursted down if they don't build any bulk first. They can be CCd or kited, and the value of the active is ruined if they're not constantly auto-attacking in those first 6 seconds. They also need their ult to get any value at all, which gives them windows of vulnerability.

Let's see how it settles.

IP Masquerena2/7/2019, 7:58:30 PM6 votes

I have a question:

If people cry "damage is too high that even tanks can't tank", then how is it that 250 HP from the Spear is "too much bulk"?

Like, those things contradict each other.

Jesus is Savior2/8/2019, 12:36:42 AM5 votes

Can I just point out that this item is, without a doubt, worse than the old version. No question.

They removed 525 gold worth of AD (15) and added 666 gold worth of health (250). Excluding the mana they removed, this is a net gain of 141 gold worth of stats. But they made the item cost 400 gold MORE than before. So you're essentially paying 400 extra gold for 141 gold worth of stats, as well as delaying your powerspike. And this is just on manaless champions. People like Jax or Master Yi actually liked and utilized the mana.

Now this may not seem like a lot. But it really is. At a 3400g price point there are so many better items I can buy that offer a similar powerspike. Death's Dance is a way better item and costs 3500g. This is actually how I decided which item to buy in the past. If I won a teamfight and backed with 3000g, I would buy essence reaver. If I backed with 3500g, I would pick up Death's Dance because it's a way better item. With spear of shojin costing 3400g I don't see any scenarios where I will ever want to pick up this item. Even if I back with 3400 gold, 100 gold away from Death's Dance, and "needed something right now for an immediate powerspike and couldn't wait a single second longer" I'd still pick up a Frozen Heart or Spirit Visage instead of the spear, because they offer way more value for the money. And just for completion's sake, I'll justify that with some gold values:

  • Death's Dance is 115% gold efficient, costing 3500g and being worth 4041g in stats not including its passive. Even if you remove "spell vamp" entirely (since it overlaps with lifesteal), it's still worth 3629g (104% gold efificient)
  • Frozen Heart is 114% gold efficient without its passive. It costs 2700g and gives 3093g worth of stats. Even if you remove the mana, it still gives 2533g worth of stats and is 94% gold efficient without its passive. Which isn't very good, but it's cheap (and since it's cheap you're usually building it at a point in the game where you still have slight mana issues).
  • Spirit Visage is 105% gold efficient without its passive, costing 2800g and giving you 2936 worth of stats. It also has an amazing passive, especially if you plan on eventually building deaths dance (or have lifesteal runes)
  • Spear of Shojin is 97% gold efficient without its passive, costing 3400g for 3300g worth of stats. For context, old Essence Reaver was 105% gold efficient not including the mana.

So you seem to think this new item is an issue, but the old one was not? When the new item is only 97% gold efficient without its passive, and the old one was 105% gold efficient even without the mana?

The only time this item has been "buffed" (and the only time I will actually build it in a game) is if you literally build it last, and the game lasts long enough for you to do it. "Oh I actually have enough gold to stick this in my last item slot? Sure, why not."

I also noticed you were arguing with someone else that the hp on the item makes you "tankier" when you complete it than old essence reaver. This is only slightly correct. Since it costs 400g more than old essence reaver, you can't just compare "completing ER" to "completing spear." That extra 400g could buy you a cloth armor or ruby crystal. So a more fair comparison would be "completing ER and also buying a ruby crystal" vs "completing spear" in which case you are only 100hp tankier for the money, and not 250hp. So unless you're going full glass cannon with no hp items (or somehow reach full build in a one-shot meta), you're not actually that much tankier with the new spear than you would have been with the old ER.

Is the passive a problem? Maybe.

Is the new item gamebreaking compared to the old one? No. It's nerfed. Nerfed to the point where I don't even build it anymore (because if I do, I usually lose the game, because I could have bought something better)

ModKnightsKemplar2/7/2019, 3:37:37 PM5 votes

I don't hate the idea, but I'll admit that it doesn't feel great to play against. It kind of turns any fighter that buys it into old poppy/olaf, where the proper counterplay is to just run like all hell until the effect is gone.

At the same time, I do feel it's filling an interesting niche for those champions that can use it well. I think, opposite to you, I actually wish that they put less AD and more health on it; I think the combination of Awakened Dragon and that much AD just grants them so much burst in one item. I haven't played very many games against it, but that was my experience last night.

Saianna2/7/2019, 6:03:48 PM3 votes

Could someone explain me why EVERYONE BUT MAGES get items that have some gimmicks for abilities and CDR or overall good allrounder items with CDR on top?

And then human-shaped amebas dare say rito favoures mages.

EDIT: I wasn't specific. I meant, why mages do not get items with abilities (be it active or passive) that affect CD of their abilities such as the spear does for whoever buys it. Abilities (spells) are keyword when descibing mages. They should have items that enhance their casting. Not fighters bruisers or ADCs, because that is F.... bonkers.

Edit: cool that people downvote without reading cause post is already downvoted and "better stick with the group" :P

Raiyza2/7/2019, 6:47:00 PM1 votes

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