turn 1 damage into 2 damage ok seems fine turn 1000 damage into 2000 damage ok we have a problem
As damage goes up you can no longer have a x2 modifier to maintain balance. The modifier would have to be lowered to accomidate the new damage ratio. Lets try 1.7 and 2.2 with 
chipndip112 votesIf they aren't removing crit, marksmen are just gonna generally need reloading mechanics so there's windows where they aren't peppering your whole life style into oblivion.
Kaeblen2 votessounds good.
slated for season 30?
chipndip12 votesThe next time they do a pass on marksmen, they should consider it. Not even meme'ing. Like, it's fine if they're strong late game, but the constant up time is the real issue. Other people actually stop fighting when their cds are blown. Marksmen never stop. They get FASTER, even. If we aren't removing crit, reload timers would open up opportunities for melees to close in, or for mages to get their cds back.
LordGeovanni1 votesThe constant up time is what defnines marksmen and why jhin and graves arent considered traditional marksmen. the problem is they keep getting more ad and armor and hp the 2 things that gate their damage is constantly being nerfed. armor penetration is also being buffed constantly which adds to adc power more than the fighters it is on and crit s constantly being buffed which interacts with ad buffs and armor pen buffs
chipndip11 votesEven if they had to stop and reload (which why the hell not?), they'd still have more up-time than others that are down by the time they use a spell. The point is that they aren't nigh unstoppable by late-game, right? Then there needs to be some type of window you can utilize to actually deal with them. If not, yeah, they're gonna dps you to death, and as they get more damage, they'll bps you to death the minute they see you.
The strength can be relatively fine, but I think people are tired of feeling like they're legit out of options all the time. Besides, Graves and Jhin are considered non-traditional because of how they work with attack speed. Jhin gets damage for AS and Graves has a weird overall interaction with it, where only some of it goes into his actual attack/reload speed. He also has super poor range.
LordGeovanni1 voteswith riot speed since you suggested season 30 you will see that at season 121
Distorted Sorrow9 votesNo. No adc will have 1000 AD anyways. Youre high AF
The Last Ballad21 votes
DuskDaUmbreon10 votesBy that logic, Blitz is equally broken, because he can copy the same build, and press E for 550% AD damage...
Håppy8 votesDo you know what Jhin does?
AirKingNeo1 votesDo you know what making a pun about someone else's over-exaggeration is?
Håppy1 votesBut that's not a pun.
LordGeovanni1 votespretty sure blitz e bonus damage doesnt crit only the base damage of what his normal auto attack would have been. so 300% ad damage.
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesBlitz's E bonus can and does crit.
LordGeovanni1 voteseven then only 400% ad damage. and the diffrence in that is you sacrifice range and saftey do do shit like that which adcs dont.
DuskDaUmbreon1 votes550, because you always buy IE if you're planning to build crit.
And trust me, you don't sacrifice too much, when you have 20% lifesteal, and you hit for over two thousand damage. The only thing keeping it from being completely busted out of the ass is that his E has way too high a cool down outside of URF. You have your Q to bring them in close, your W for decent speed, your R to stop divers, and your E is a knockup.
It's as insanely useless while theoretically powerful as Jhin buying the same items. Neither champion can regularly use this build, because it's completely fucking useless in a normal match.
ShadowtehGreat1 votesBlitz's e bonus damage does not crit, I have tested it out myself
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesCheck again, because it does.
ShadowtehGreat1 votesI did, I had 100% crit chance as well as 260 damage and an infinity edge (no pen). My regular ~700 damage crit did ~900 damage when I activated my e instead of ~1400 damage which would be expected if blitzcrank's e bonus damage did crit. I tested this at least 5 times in a row with no differing results against a skuttle which I presume had somewhere around 30 armor at the time.
LordGeovanni1 votesjust a reminder no ardent censer in that
Mizaya7 votesWhat's the point? You'll just complain about whatever new meta itemization comes up.
Moonfall Saber2 voteswhen riot lets us down over and over by overtuning ad items yes.
Mizaya2 votesWell, have fun then.
yesnobanana4 votesThat's the boards for you
JoeMG3 votesWhat if the AD was lowered from IE and ER? ADCS could still build for 80-100% crit but the damage output wouldn't be as high. This way if ADCs wanted to build for damage instead, they would be missing out on crit chance and attack speed.
Obviously the random factor is still stupid but this could be a quick fix for ADC damage being so obsurd.
7377063 votesAnd who exactly crits you for 2000?
Moonfall Saber1 votesNobody I'm just showing the scaling. Who deals 1 damage also? Cmon now. A more real comparison would be 500 - 1000.
Infernape1 votesDoesn't Trundle's E deal 1 true damage?
Moonfall Saber1 votesSeriously?
Infernape1 votesYep. Unless Riot changed it, Trundle's E deals one true damage for the purpose of granting assists and taking tower aggro. The same goes for Anivia's wall.
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesIt shouldn't, because it does AoE damage...
La Belle Sauvage1 votesLucian once crit'd me for 1852.
La Belle Sauvage1 votesMaybe it was 1352, I'll have to go through my replays to see if I can find it.
Tortunga2 votesWhy I wouldn't mind the removal of crits RNG aspect (Who doesn't hate getting crit 3 times in a row by a Tryndamere at level 1) there kind of needs to be a stat in the game to increase AA damage for ADC in the late game. Just pure AD isn't an option, as it would require a rebalance of every AD champion and item in the game, and more AS is an option, but would feel a bit busted.
What they really should do is make Crit much harder to get, so it more becomes a lategame stat then anything ells. ADC's are getting 70% crit change with 6.2k gold ( + 
+ zeal item), which is just way to low.
IcyPepper1 votes(Who doesn't hate getting crit 3 times in a row by a Tryndamere at level 1)
Doesn't the pseudo-RNG element prevent those kind of fringe cases?
DunkinNoobs2 votesAre we gonna nerf armor across the board to compensate? Because crit is a response to tanks and if you want to remove crit, you'll need to eviscerate tanks.
Darkdemon6531 votesLet's go from 1.0 AS to 2.0. 1 damage per second becomes 2 damage per second. 1000 damage per second becomes 2000 damage per second.
Crit is not an inherent problem. The problem with crit (and RAD items in general) is it is too efficient early.
DrCyanide1 votesThe difference between your example and the OP's example is the opportunity to react. You can cut off half the damage of a higher attack speed build by getting out of the way or becoming invulnerable between attacks, and you can avoid death by having a heal in between the attacks, but neither is an option with Crit.
Darkdemon6531 votes{quoted} but neither is an option with Crit.
Why not?
DrCyanide3 votesBecause that 2000 damage crit 100-0'd you. Heal before it and your heal didn't do anything because you're full health. Move out of range after the first shot is fired and you're still dead because there doesn't need to be another shot.
Yes, we're dealing with extremes in numbers here, but it still highlights that there's more opportunities to react with AS boosts than there is with Crit boosts.
Darkdemon6532 votesBecause that 2000 damage crit 100-0'd you. Heal before it and your heal didn't do anything because you're full health. Move out of range after the first shot is fired and you're still dead because there doesn't need to be another shot.
Yes, we're dealing with extremes in numbers here, but it still highlights that there's more opportunities to react with AS boosts than there is with Crit boosts.
No basic attack is doing 2000 effective damage agaknst champions.
DrCyanide2 votesAnd no non-critting auto attack is dealing 1000 damage, which is where the second paragraph comes in.
Darkdemon6532 votesAnd no non-critting auto attack is dealing 1000 damage, which is where the second paragraph comes in.
So your evidence for crit being a problem is situations that don't occur
DrCyanide2 votesNo, I merely continued the example with easy numbers that both you and the OP used, figuring you were both capable of seeing how it related to the real game. I'll backtrack to try and clarify for you.
If damage is spaced out over time (as oppose to being delivered all at once), then you've got more chances to react to that damage. You can take some DPS damage to figure out how bad the situation is, you don't have that chance with Burst damage.
Crit is unpredictable burst for auto attacks. It randomly deals a burst of 2.5 times as much damage as normal, which makes it impossible to tell how fast you'll be chunked out, and if that burst happens right at the tail end you die when you otherwise would have been able to react.
Crit originated in PvE games as a way to get lucky shots off on NPCs. It's still OK when gated by conditions (a crit when coming out of stealth, for instance), but it doesn't really have a spot in PvP games. If randomly doing extra damage was a healthy mechanic for the game, then it wouldn't be limited to Auto Attacks, it'd be OK on spells too.
Darkdemon6531 votes{quoted} If damage is spaced out over time (as oppose to being delivered all at once), then you've got more chances to react to that damage. You can take some DPS damage to figure out how bad the situation is, you don't have that chance with Burst damage.
300 DPS worth of crits is no different from 300 DPS worth of non-crits
DrCyanide3 votesIf you have 300 HP left and I deal 300 True Damage to you in a burst, you're dead. You had no opportunity to react after the initial hit.
If you have 300 HP left and I deal 300 True Damage over 1 second to you, you live. Your built in health regen heals you in that time (heals every 0.5 seconds).
That's ignoring other effects like 
or other champion abilities that can also interfere in the 1 second you were dealing damage to save the victim's life.
TLDR: No, they're not the same.
Darkdemon6531 votesIf you have 300 HP left and I deal 300 True Damage to you in a burst, you're dead. You had no opportunity to react after the initial hit.
If you have 300 HP left and I deal 300 True Damage over 1 second to you, you live. Your built in health regen heals you in that time (heals every 0.5 seconds).
That's ignoring other effects like
TLDR: No, they're not the same.
If I'm at 300 health and I'm being attacked by something that's dealing 300 DPS, I'm going to use thiae things regardless of whether or not the damage is crits or non-crits.
DrCyanide1 votesYou're still missing the point.
and I'm being attacked by something that's dealing 300 DPS
You've got time to make that decision if it's DPS, you don't have time to make that decision if it's a Crit (burst).
Darkdemon6531 votesYou're still missing the point.
You've got time to make that decision if it's DPS, you don't have time to make that decision if it's a Crit (burst).
If I've been getting attacked by something dealing 300 DPS to the point of being at 300 health, how do i not have time to react?
Busty Demoness1 votesI would support this for one reason only.
Yasuo does not get any compensation for the removal of critical strike.
Seriously though, I'd rather have ADCs reliant on critical strike than Lethality.
