AP itemization is complete garbage

Would you be interested in opening a thread for players to provide their ideas for items? Sometimes I find myself thoroughly impressed by ideas that are produced within the community.

particularly feels outcrowded by the other AP items because it's simply not worth it -- all it does is give you raw AP when other items are often more efficient and more useful rather than give you just damage. I'd suggest increase the AP or better yet, decrease the cost of it.

is too niche, its stats is simply just too little for its cost and hardly anyone builds the item anymore because the effect is too weak. I'd suggest increasing the slow or AP.

feels too lackluster for what its worth. It's built solely only vs AD matchups or because of its active. The stats on it though, are a joke. I'd rather the Ornn upgraded version of it be made the standard item.

I also think should also be taken a look at, I don't think I've seen it ever being built (apart from the very occasional nidalee jungle). I'd rather Athene's be modified so that it's more viable in midlane by increasing the AP on it so that mages can either choose between Athenes or Morellos. Right now, the only viable mana option is Morello's, no question asked - if you don't build it, you're going to have a hard time with mana problems.

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We're hoping to do a pass on AP itemization sometime in the (hopefully near) future. If the issue with them is build diversity, some suggestions for new/modified items could be useful, if for no other reason than to get some ideas flowing. If those suggestions also included why they'd be good additions to the game, or what problem they address, that would also be very useful.

I honestly feel like are the biggest offenders of choking diversity. It would be nice if there were other mana options for champions that need a mana item but don't need a giant mana pool from roa and tear. Also maybe another magic pen item so there's a choice between voidstaff and something else. And lastly i think it would be nice if the grievenous wounds passive was removed from morello and put onto another ap item because right now ap champions that don't build morello don't have a way to deal with drainktanks and healers. And allow mages to make a conscious decision to invest in grievenous wounds instead of just getting it as a bonus on a core item.

We could use dedicated Items for Ap Bruisers like Morde, Rumble, Diana and co. It should mostly be melee only or be geared towards rewarding aggressive play to avoid mages to abuse them.

You guys never replaced DFG's niche as a core manaless ap 10% cdr item

Edit: dfg's niche as a CORE item. protobelt is more of a supplementary item.

Hexdrinker type item that gives an AD shield, or some kind of damage reduction that would allow to reduce the instant damage of AD champs, since that side have . Maybe some alternatives to morellos - I've been looking at the items from Black market Brawlers, and the alternative passives seemed pretty cool. Making a choice in the early game about which tome to buy against the enemy team could be useful; GV is more useful with sustained damage, but maybe we could trade that for a shield or some more AP? I think we need another MPen item since MR is so much more accessible to squishies, Liandry's is more useful for a poke champ, so maybe an item that gives MPen and armour (because we want armour).

I also think you should consider moving the gold value of CDR to AP on and to other stats since mages' burst seems to have been sacrificed for multiple rotations.

There was a lot of cool shit in Black Market Brawlers. Rite of Ruin, Pox Arcana, Netherstride Grimore, they're all cool and interactive AP items that would appeal to different champions and spice up the meta.

I like the idea that has for a tribute. Make it the AP version of and give a boost to MS on melee. You know people like would like that.

I'm just a filthy scrub so my opinions might not matter much, but:

The nature of mages being what they are (greater reliability on cooldowns, mana, and ap than any other classes) basically requires them to get either this or ASAP. Problem is mages also have the worst mp/5 stats in the game for some reason so they can't get by with mana regen the way supports can.

Inefficient, very expensive, scales poorly, but it gives mages a much-needed early kick since it fills that gap between base damage becoming irrelevant and having enough AP to make the scalings work.

All-to-necessary because the nature of how magic damage is done means MR hurts mages much more than Armor hurts physical classes.

Can we please get an AP/Armor item that doesn't have so much of its value locked away in its active? Zhonya's can stay if you guys like it, it's just not terribly fair that Maw of Mal is such a good item even before you consider its shield.

I actually have no problems with this one, carry on.

and are very weird together. Haunting is an anti-squishy item but it builds into the only anti-tank item mages get their hands on, and its nature makes it work better with dot and spam-cast mages. Both hp-shred magical items in Smite work on a cooldown and do a big chunk of damage instead of small dots.

I hate that this item is so necessary to mages due to their lack of critical hits or being able to fall back on basic attacks, I truly do. There's no worse feeling than having to start building this piece of shit, because you invariably end up buying an NLR (and a blasting wand at best) and then sitting there without any further power spikes until you get another 2000 or so gold.

Why does this still exist? No, seriously, throw up your hands and delete this thing. It's trying to be a hybrid burst sustain item all at once and the logical outcome is coming strong when you see a bunch of champions who don't have any use for the AD or healing it gives buying it because of that pinheaded active giving you another basic skill's worth of damage.

I'm still just a stupid scrub, but the way Smite handles basic attacks could possibly be of some assistance. Basically, in Smite, mages get AP (there called Magical Power) scaling on their basic attacks (not 100% like physical classes do, I think it's around 30%) so they can still hit with some force even when their abilities are on cd.

A couple of good replies on this topic:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/3TxBAehA-ap-itemization-is-complete-garbage?comment=000c https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/3TxBAehA-ap-itemization-is-complete-garbage?comment=000a

1. What's the goal of AP itemization pass?
2. Is the effort supposed to be power neutral?
3. What's the potential scope of the effort? -slight changes to existing items? -making 1 new item? -making several new items?

Liandry's could use an identity change IMO. It gives flat MPen (so anti squishy) but deals damage based on the enemy's current HP (so, tank buster). Having this identity split has made it a weird and very niche item, and since Rylai's was nerfed I never see it on anyone but Rumble and Brand.

Hextech GLP is also an extremely underused item, I see it even less than Liandry's. Perhaps it could be merged with Rylai's somehow? Both serve similar purposes (tanky AP items that have slow effects) and so I feel in most cases people will pick whichever is better out of the two.

Also, for the love of God please make Morellonomicon less generalist. This item is bought by almost every mage as a first item because it offers so many stats and is also extremely cheap. People don't even think about buying it for its Grievous Wounds passive, since most of the time people will buy it anyway regardless of situation!

For Morellonomicon, I'd like see Grievous wounds removed and have it lose some AP or Mana in exchange for a little bit of flat magic pen. This would solidify its niche as a burst mage item vs squishies. If that were to happen, I'd like to see Liandry's gain the Grievous Wounds passive and have it lose its flat magic pen for a buffed burn or a different and better anti-tank passive. This would solidify its niche as a Battlemage/brawly mage item, for the champions that need to be in the middle of fights and don't often have access to squishies and have to fight tanks.

I'd like to hear you thoughts on this.

I think dropping Grievous Wounds from Morellonomicon and then creating two versions of Void Staff, one with Grievous Wounds, and one with a different focus would be a good idea.

It would let some mages that don't need mana itemize it, and it would let champions that need their healing not be shut down as soon as mid finishes their first item. Also, if the new Void Staff Item had a Grievous Wounds component it would let them itemize against a healing based champion at the cost of some general power.

I support the idea of a dedicated thread so you could better filter ideas. Still here's my 2 cents on the matter, as a low elo but pretty much only mage users.

1- add an item (or modify luden into it) with high raw AP coupled with cool down reduction. Intended for artillery mages, the tradeoff being if you invest in survivability items you will overcap cdr.

2- add a high flat magic pen items for specializing in damaging squishies

3- to compensate previously said item make void staff % BONUS magic resistance reduced

4- liandry can either be turned into item 2 or kept as %hp damage to help vs tanks, in which case it doesn't need flat pen and needs either more burn damage, an AP scaling or its cost reduced

5- lich needs its mana removed since it seems more intended for assassins and the majority of them has no use for mana. Either reduce its price or add AP

6- remove rilay and balance the champions that need it to function accordingly. "abuse this guy until he gets that one item or he will abuse you" it's not a fun interaction and it makes said guy too binary and depending on the item, much like vlad and will of the ancient

7- make a mini deathcap to ease the build path (doesn't need to have the passive, even high AP alone would do since the major problem is the item slots needed to build it, not available late game)

8- add a manaless AP + hp item, intended for beefier mages. The thing should be created with vlad mordekaiser maybe swain and basically whoever likes to be in the middle of the fight in mind but should be inefficient for squishier mages only looking for a defensive option ( so I'm thinking not high AP)

9- I THINK a buff to roa could be ok since it's basically impossible to use the item when games end so shortly and the reward is less than it used to be (but if you have in mind to direct games in being little longer again it might be not needed)

10- if we're about to reach late game again you should address the fact that LOTS of AP has been lost on the way (reduced AP on items removal on blue buff..) so maybe consider rising AP in purely offensive items. If some mages in particular should be a problem with this change rebalance by lowering some of their ratios OR late base damage on abilities, depending if they are meant to be strong late game or not (an Ori should or Syndra should get bases reduced, a Taliyah ratios for example)

11- if the general AP stays the same you may want to look at basically all the roster's scaling since they are designed with almost double the AP in mind (infact I see particular utility kits have more success, as they function even with less AP , like Ori or Taliyah, while more "carry oriented" damage wise mages are less impactful in the game).

Hope I don't sound like spilling no sense and thanks for your time on hearing us out! It's so pleasant when you rioters approach the community 😊 cheers

Gunblade, Proto, and GLP are each better burst options than Ludens. That item is ony good if you either rush it and use the MS to roam and snowball, or are an artillery mage and already have your Morello, Haunting Guise, Sorc Boots, Rabadons, Void Staff core and are greedy for extra burst

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is a must. in a few cases. because gets Mr easily. because there are no other options vs AD. gives the best burst. MEANINGFUL CHOICES.

Can we just bring up the fact that Vlad doesnt build morellos. I feel like you guys are missing that. Akali and kennen don't too. They all have decent winrates on people that main them, so I don't think it's an issue either.