Whats the point of merc treads if everything is a knockup

Moonfall Saber·Oct 7, 2017·171 votes·7,126 views

feels entirely useless

89 Comments

Miror BOct 7, 201722 votes

For that one game in which the only cc on the enemy team is a maokai, who is only playing him because he got the meowkai skin and reallly wants to see the animations, and is prone to having his feelings hurt. That's the reason to get them.

General Esdeath Oct 8, 20173 votes

Mye, did you just buy the Meowkai skin to see the animations?

Miror BOct 8, 20178 votes

No, I actually got gifted the skin from a buddy after pseudo-saving his cat's life (apparently it had a blockage in its stomach which was causing it to not eat, something I inadvertently helped pass by tickling its belly). I have seen plenty of people buy the skin only to realize their bad at tank-play though, hence why my rumble is so high right now.

General Esdeath Oct 8, 20171 votes

LOL

CorvidOct 9, 20172 votes

Maokai has a knockup too. Just say'n.

CatastropOct 7, 201715 votes

The MR is really the only reason you build Merc Treads tbh. Otherwise, Ninja Tabi is BIS defensive boots in all cases provided the enemy also has 1 other ad champion aside from the ADC.

GrReaper96Oct 8, 20173 votes

I almost always go Tabis anyways

Sexy Jack RabbitOct 8, 201710 votes

They're good against mages. Those of which mostly only contain stuns or such. If you're against any of the following midlane Ahri Anivia Annie Cassiopeia Ekko Elise Fiddlesticks Karma Leblanc Lissandra Lux Morgana Ryze Syndra Zyra Veigar Heimerdinger (Yes I'm aware Elise, Morgana, Fiddles and Zyra are rarely played mid) And you're not taking item 3111 you're severely gimping yourself.

People need to get rid of the mentality that you're buying Merc's for the extra tenacity or the MR or the MS. You're taking them for all 3 which is a pretty sweet deal. It's just in the current meta they're not as good as item 3047 . Which is just a result of ADC's being so oppressive.

Overall I don't think they're useless. Just more niche/match-up dependent then item 3047 item 3117 or item 3006

4th3t0sOct 8, 20177 votes

This is partially why Orianna has been picked so much in LCS over the years; her only hard CC can't be mitigated.

Edit: CONTEXT, PEOPLE. I know she's been a stable midlaner for years now, I only mentioned her specifically because she's one of the only midlane picks THAT HAS UNMITIGATABLE CC in reference to the OP's point about tenacity being a subpar stat with knockups everywhere.

MiraweaveOct 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This is partially why has been picked so much in LCS over the years; her only hard CC can't be mitigated.

That's not really why. Ori's CC wouldn't be modified by Tenacity even if it did work on knockups because it's not a durational CC, it's just a pull.

yoshi2790Oct 8, 20174 votes

Would that matter? His point would still be valid.

MiraweaveOct 8, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Would that matter? His point would still be valid.

Not really. He's saying that Ori is picked because she has cc that can't be mitigated. That's not really true. She's picked because she's a reliable safe pick with strong aoe damage and good scaling who's strong in lane.

4th3t0sOct 8, 20174 votes

I said "partially", not "exclusively"

MiraweaveOct 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I said "partially", not "exclusively"

I really don't think that "ori's hard cc can't be mitigated" is even part of the consideration. She's good for a whole host of other reasons.

4th3t0sOct 9, 20171 votes

Of course she's good for a myriad of other reasons, I only mentioned her here because she's another case referencing the OP's point about tenacity being subpar when there's knockups everywhere.

MiraweaveOct 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Of course she's good for a myriad of other reasons, I only mentioned her here because she's another case referencing the OP's point about tenacity being subpar when there's knockups everywhere.

The thing is that Ori's ult wouldn't care about tenacity even if tenacity did work on knockup cc. It's a really bad example because it's not a durational CC, it's a displacement.

Something like Alistar Q or Yasuo ult would be better examples because they're the kind of CC that would normally be mitigated by Tenacity but isn't.

4th3t0sOct 9, 20171 votes

{quoted} The thing is that Ori's ult wouldn't care about tenacity even if tenacity did work on knockup cc. It's a really bad example because it's not a durational CC, it's a displacement. Something like Alistar Q or Yasuo ult would be better examples because they're the kind of CC that would normally be mitigated by Tenacity but isn't.>

Uhm, no, knockups never would have been mitigated by tenacity, nor should they. The OP from my understanding is highlighting the fact that BECAUSE knockups and displacement has grown 100x more commonplace, thus making tenacity as a stat almost worthless; especially considering how scarce it is. Even if you think Orianna's ult isn't the "best" example, I mentioned her in my original reply about mages not having access to displacements, not as a textbook example of displacements/knockups as a whole.

Zero Skill TankOct 8, 20171 votes

Ori is picked so much mainly because she has mobility other mages typically don't, and simply because she was allowed to be BS strong for years - same reasons as Ahri. Her immunity to tenacity has little to do with it.

ZapMyHeartOct 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=dont stop Niisan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4XZGuihH,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2017-10-08T12:05:27.552+0000)

Ori is picked so much mainly because she has mobility other mages typically don't, and simply because she was allowed to be BS strong for years - same reasons as Ahri. Her immunity to tenacity has little to do with it.

Her mobility is ehh because it is a depreciating buff. She's picked more due to the fact that she's a safe pick with her shield and can farm in peace compared to other mages + her grouping capabilites of her ult.

Cybernetic GhostOct 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They're good against mages. Those of which mostly only contain stuns or such. If you're against any of the following midlane (Yes I'm aware Elise, Morgana, Fiddles and Zyra are rarely played mid) And you're not taking you're severely gimping yourself.

People need to get rid of the mentality that you're buying Merc's for the extra tenacity or the MR or the MS. You're taking them for all 3 which is a pretty sweet deal. It's just in the current meta they're not as good as . Which is just a result of ADC's being so oppressive.

Overall I don't think they're useless. Just more niche/match-up dependent then or

I noticed Vel'Koz is not on this list, then I realized he wouldn't be because his passive deals true damage so putting on MR against him is moot.

Sexy Jack RabbitOct 9, 20171 votes

That was my reason for not including him yeah. Don't get it wrong though. They're still a great purchase against him. Considering his slow on Q and all magical damage.

But his abundance of true damage and his E being a knock-up doesn't make them a required purchase.

CowseedOct 8, 20179 votes

Yes.... the boots that reduce cc in the game are entirely useless against a team of Irelia , Ahri Leona Maokai and Xayah simply because knock up champs exist. Doesn't matter if any are on the enemy team or not. Just the mere fact they exist means the item is now useless. Is this what you're saying?

I Main SwainOct 8, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Yes.... the boots that reduce cc in the game are entirely useless against a team of , and simply because knock up champs exist. Doesn't matter if any are on the enemy team or not. Just the mere fact they exist means the item is now useless. Is this what you're saying?

idk if youre being serious or not but either near or over half (i cant remember which) of all cc in the game is a displacement

CowseedOct 8, 20171 votes

What the heck is this even saying? It isn't even a legitmate reply. It doesn't matter HOW many champions have knock ups. If 90 of the champion pool has a knock up but the enemy team consists of the other 40 and have hard cc WHY would you not buy mercs?

idk if youre being serious or not but either near or over half (i cant remember which) of all cc in the game is a displacement

Are YOU being serious? Are you reading what I'm saying? You don't seem to understand what I'm saying AT-ALL!

I Main SwainOct 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

What the heck is this even saying? It isn't even a legitmate reply. It doesn't matter HOW many champions have knock ups. If 90 of the champion pool has a knock up but the enemy team consists of the other 40 and have hard cc WHY would you not buy mercs?

Are YOU being serious? Are you reading what I'm saying? You don't seem to understand what I'm saying AT-ALL!

ok first of all you need to chill, really buddy youre getting WAY to salty over this. second, the reason i said are you being serious is because youre throwing out a specific example of a team and acting as if he said that you should never buy merc treads no matter what because theres a lot of knock ups. nobody ever said you should never buy it, but the thing is in most games close to half or more of their cc is a displacement. its basic logic. if the enemy team has Twitch Janna JarvanIV Maokai Diana i would not be taking merc treads. obviously in the specific example you gave you would take it, but most games are ofc not that specific example

CowseedOct 9, 20171 votes

feels entirely useless

acting as if he said that you should never buy merc treads no matter what because theres a lot of knock ups.

Dude... I'm salty because this post is kinda dumb :/

He actually said merc treads feels entirely useless and people are hopping on this hysteria train because they love having things to complain about.

A dude above listed the champs with non-reducable cc. The tally was 38/136. And this dude is trying to tell me that mercs are useless. Even saying it feels useless is kinda pointless. It's like a Miss Fortune one-trick complaining that item 3085 'feels' useless.

You obviously can't build mercs every single game and on every single champions but that doesn't mean its anywhere NEAR useless. Even if the enemy team has a lot of knockups, if the only source of AD they have is the adc then I'd slap myself with a brick before I buy ninja tabi no matter how 'OP' they are. Another point that actually makes this argument even more rediculous is that many knock up champs deal magic damage and have other sources of cc.

And btw 'buddy' I'm riled up because I'm giving an example and you just choose to be selectively ignorant here and act as though the comp I showed is the only possible comp filled with cc that doesn't have knockups or cc besides knockups.

Could put this whole thing in a bit more calm sense but, yeah. Apparenty you think i'm either an idiot or salty so might as well make one of those things true :shrug:

I Main SwainOct 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Dude... I'm salty because this post is kinda dumb :/

He actually said merc treads feels entirely useless and people are hopping on this hysteria train because they love having things to complain about.

A dude above listed the champs with non-reducable cc. The tally was 38/136. And this dude is trying to tell me that mercs are useless. Even saying it feels useless is kinda pointless. It's like a Miss Fortune one-trick complaining that 'feels' useless.

You obviously can't build mercs every single game and on every single champions but that doesn't mean its anywhere NEAR useless. Even if the enemy team has a lot of knockups, if the only source of AD they have is the adc then I'd slap myself with a brick before I buy ninja tabi no matter how 'OP' they are. Another point that actually makes this argument even more rediculous is that many knock up champs deal magic damage and have other sources of cc.

And btw 'buddy' I'm riled up because I'm giving an example and you just choose to be selectively ignorant here and act as though the comp I showed is the only possible comp filled with cc that doesn't have knockups or cc besides knockups.

Could put this whole thing in a bit more calm sense but, yeah. Apparenty you think i'm either an idiot or salty so might as well make one of those things true :shrug:

dont try to pretend like i made you be a douche, you started that way and you kept it going all on your own. dont pretend like i was intentionally ignoring your point, and dont try to strawman my argument because you know good and well that that is not what i was saying. i didnt start thinking you were an idiot/salty until you started being a salty idiot over something that you didnt need to get upset about at ALL. honestly, at worst what i said was a disagreement, if you cant handle that i dont know how you get through any sort of social interaction. so, "buddy", take a chill pill and if you really cant not get worked up so much over something that doesnt matter literally at all, tell your diary all about it.

as a side note, idk what that guy was counting as non-reducable cc but i just went through and counted every champion with a displacement or suppress and i got 61 (if you include viktors w and tahms devour idk fully how those work). also again he never said merc treads are useless, he said they feel useless. for the record, i find them more usefull than ninja tabi most of the time because i recognize that theres a whole lot of cc that IS reducible not to mention the mr it gives. if i had the time right now i would go find it but there was a thread posted a month or two ago where i guy did a whole chart on all of the mobility and cc in the game

CowseedOct 9, 20171 votes

ok first of all you need to chill, really buddy youre getting WAY to salty over this. second, I think we both kind of read the other guy wrong here so lets end this here and be on our way.

I Main SwainOct 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

ok first of all you need to chill, really buddy youre getting WAY to salty over this. second, I think we both kind of read the other guy wrong here so lets end this here and be on our way.

tbh im in a salty mood rn, its been a sodium heavy day. sorry if i was too heavy im just tired of everyone jumping to the guns so dang quick before even trying to be civilized

CowseedOct 9, 20171 votes

Same, dude. Was just on a low while writing this. Sorry about all this :(

Total EclipseOct 8, 20177 votes

WE NEED GRAVITY BOOTS.

Eternum NocturneOct 8, 20175 votes

Funny how 90% of the comments totally missed the point of this thread.

ThilmerOct 8, 20175 votes

I have been buying item 3047 instead in almost every tank.

Tenacity is useless if everyone has knock ups, and every new champion gets a knock up. .

My HeartshakerOct 8, 20174 votes

What is the point of merc treads if tabis exist? :X

Serika ZeroOct 8, 20173 votes

trust me, when you play an assassin. You will feel the difference when hit by non-knock up cc. Even if other characters would like to knock up your katarina or akali, you can still just avoid those by not getting near them, and for the rest you have mercs ;)

there's point and clicks snares, stuns, fears, etc. But none for knock-ups (except lee's knock away), so, its not that bad yet

KídáOct 9, 20172 votes

Time to steal the iron boots from the Legend of Zelda. Its effect would be that Airborne CC (Knock ups, knock backs, etc) is reduced by 90% in duration and/or distance. GG Blitzcrank