Vi Jungle is the free-est gank i think a jungler has

Jaygo41·Mar 10, 2015·18 votes·2,429 views

At least with Lee Sin you have to actually AIM your Q, Amumu aims his Q, J4 aims his EQ, so on and so on I don't think there's a freer gank than Vi R I just got out of a game where our ahri was laning against a malzahar... She had the brush warded in mid lane, but instead Vi Qs over the wall on the side she warded, flashed and ulted ahri... she couldn't move and got malz ulted.

There is actually nothing she could have done in this situation, and "playing back" in lane is a miserable suggestion.

I think the real way of balancing the ult is reducing the cast range, because the fact that she can fly half a screen is a bit absurd if you ask me.

The only reason warwick is balanced is because he doesn't get to vault breaker over the wall to get in range, he has to flash.

EDIT: Even J4's ult has a fairly short range

36 Comments

Angry MonsterMar 10, 201511 votes

Wait your comparing LEEs Q to an ult..... what the fuck you on.

Jaygo41Mar 10, 20154 votes

I'm comparing ganking tools at face value. What does Lee gank with? Q. Jarvan? Combo.

but Vi, Vi ONLY needs to press R

PartholonianMar 10, 20154 votes

Except for the example you gave, which was Q flash R. Not only something that can only be done every 5+ min, but also a multiple skill combo. And one that Ahri could have avoided if her own flash was up (or, being Ahri, her ult would have worked too).

You're almost never going to get anyone by ONLY using R, at a minimum it would be QR (and that's from an unwarded direction).

It's not Nocturne ult.

EedatMar 11, 20151 votes

My favorite is waiting for Vi to start her ult then flash and dash way behind my turret and take her with me :^)

TTUPhoenixMar 11, 20151 votes

As someone who plays a lot of Vi jungle, yeah. Sure, you can ult to start your gank, but I almost never do, since that's my most effective CC and trying to chase someone with Vault Breaker is just going to knock them away from me. I prefer to use Q to start ganks and then ult if they flash or are otherwise getting away.

captainkaigerMar 11, 20151 votes

So, this is like saying that Sejuani should get nerfed because she can pig charge over a wall or flash over conversely, ults you and then the enemy midlane follows up?

What is your reasoning here? Lee Sin's Ult is both an engage, and disengage with: low cooldown, high damage, and high cc knocking up anyone in the path of the kickee (that will forever be a word now.) it's even targeted, just like Vi's. Oh, wait, it has no energy cost huh.

Furthermore, Vi can be dragged under turrets and away from help with Ahri's Ult/flash. So really it's her fault.

UPfreelyMar 11, 20156 votes

maybe he's trying to argue that his Q is over its balance budget and therefore equal to an ult, i agree nerf lee sin

4nth0l0gyMar 11, 20151 votes

The correct term is "compensate"

UPfreelyMar 11, 20151 votes

im afraid to use this word for lee, esp with riots history

Shadow GilgameshMar 10, 20154 votes

Well if we're counting ults, Yi's will almost guarentee he gets in there to deal damage, Warwick never has trouble getting in to ult, J4s might have low range, but he has a context free gap closer with his flag dash, Naut has basically the same deal as Vi, but doesn't risk getting put between two turrets due to a dash or anything in transit, etc.

Vi has really good ganks, and I really expected this to be about her Q, but faulting a jungler for having a really good gank ult is a little silly, since quite a few have them.

Jaygo41Mar 10, 20152 votes

Good and rediculous are a bit different... warwick can simply be avoided and he has to often burn a summoner to get in range j4's ult is easily dashed out of and is simply damage against most champions, naut's takes awhile to get there and there is time to react and plan 2 seconds in advance

vi's addresses and beats ALL of that.

ProvengreilMar 11, 20154 votes

in your example Vi used flash and a dashing skill(also the only followup CC she would otherwise have) just to get in range. ahri would have been able to just walk out without a dash had malz not, well, been malz.

BiffoloMar 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Good and rediculous are a bit different... warwick can simply be avoided and he has to often burn a summoner to get in range j4's ult is easily dashed out of and is simply damage against most champions, naut's takes awhile to get there and there is time to react and plan 2 seconds in advance

vi's addresses and beats ALL of that.

You just said that ww needs to blow a summoner, yet in your example said vi flashed to make this combo happen. Anything that relies on a 5 minute cd isnt all that broken

NarasimhaMar 11, 20153 votes

Nocturne It would be a shame if your team wanted to help you...

Kitten of EvilMar 11, 20152 votes

It would be a shame if Noc could use his ult more often than once every 3 minutes (at level one)

Even if his ult CD stays the same, it should go on a reduced CD if he doesn't use it to dash (but uses it to deny vision or intends to dash but can't -- think Cait ult)

NarasimhaMar 11, 20151 votes

They've already said they won't do this, part of the ult is the dash. Using it just for the vision loss isn't what its meant for at all. Its meant to be the dash WITH the vision loss. Otherwise, you could argue that TF's ult should have a reduced CD if he doesn't teleport with it, and that would just be insane.

Kitten of EvilMar 11, 20151 votes

The difference is, TF can always use the second half of his ult, even if (in theory) no enemies are nearby. Noc can't always. If enemies dive into a bush, his dash cannot be completed at all. Plus, granting vision of all enemies on the map, including stealthed ones, is much stronger than reducing vision radius. If enemies are all in a group, the denial of vision does nothing.

Thresh Outta FuxMar 11, 20153 votes

Everyone posting here is kind of ignoring the simple fact the OP is stating.

TL:DR; Every other jungle has to gank with aimed or skillshot abilities. Vi, simply selects her target and clicks. This makes ganking as Vi MUCH easier than any other champion. Nautilus R takes longer to travel, and everyone else has to aim or be in melee range to drop their CC.

4nth0l0gyMar 11, 20151 votes

I think moreso the problem is that she has 2 awesome gapclosers. This is also the problem with Lee Sin.

terkmcMar 11, 20151 votes

Maokai Whats up!

BiffoloMar 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rentable Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vaBtLITJ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-03-11T02:40:49.424+0000)

Everyone posting here is kind of ignoring the simple fact the OP is stating.

TL:DR; Every other jungle has to gank with aimed or skillshot abilities. Vi, simply selects her target and clicks. This makes ganking as Vi MUCH easier than any other champion. Nautilus R takes longer to travel, and everyone else has to aim or be in melee range to drop their CC.

To be fair, if you need to rely on an ulti to gank, that's ok for the ulti to be strong. Im not saying she isnt too strong, but the ults utility is perfectly fine.

KazaashiMar 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rentable Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vaBtLITJ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-03-11T02:40:49.424+0000)

Everyone posting here is kind of ignoring the simple fact the OP is stating.

TL:DR; Every other jungle has to gank with aimed or skillshot abilities. Vi, simply selects her target and clicks. This makes ganking as Vi MUCH easier than any other champion. Nautilus R takes longer to travel, and everyone else has to aim or be in melee range to drop their CC.

As a Vi main jungler, I pretty much never start a gank with my R. Its always a Q (or flash Q) and save my ult for the Flash or other escape.

Yash GautamMar 10, 20152 votes

aim vi q get a combo but rek sai has the free-est ganks

Eli Big GayMar 10, 20152 votes

That was a key part of Vi's design. They were comparing it to Malphite ult and other ults, and in the end decided something along the lines of "Vi knocks you up. Vi's ult knocks you up for 1.25 seconds. Period." I honestly like it. If she's wasting flash and ult, I wouldn't say it's OP. You CAN still get away, if you live through it, but the point of CC is just that -- to keep you locked down. Vi, overall, is still too strong, though.

Jaygo41Mar 10, 20152 votes

Malphite ult needs to be aimed and therefore can be flashed and miss, and nautilus' ult takes a really long time to get there and is very telegraphed... vi's ult accelerates the farther she moves so that addresses both of those issues entriely

Eli Big GayMar 11, 20151 votes

That's not at all what I'm referring to. I mean that, in development, they wanted that for Vi, so hers could be unique. It's honestly a key part to who she is, though she needs to be toned down.

LapisonMar 11, 20152 votes

There's the minor factor of Vi's ult being on a longer cool down than every other gank by around...oh, a factor of 4? The cool down's pretty damn long.

Just for me, I think that's a pretty good tradeoff for reliability.

Kitten of EvilMar 11, 20151 votes

Warwick just needs to press R too... WAIT they nerfed that. Yeah, I got nothing.

NarogMar 11, 20151 votes

Remember that reliable stun is a bad thing only if you are veigar

CubedJusticeMar 11, 20151 votes

Lee has a point and click, easy to use gap closer that has good damage and great CC, and is only counterplayed by flashes or dashes. It's called an inSec.

Jaygo41Mar 11, 20151 votes

w8 u just called his Q a point and click pls

IcyPepperMar 11, 20151 votes

At least with Lee Sin you have to actually AIM your Q, Amumu aims his Q, J4 aims his EQ, so on and so on I don't think there's a freer gank than Vi R

Vi has to aim her Q...

However, there's a difference between Lee and Vi. Lee has an engage/execute, an escape, and a disengage/execute. Vi has an engage/disengage in one skill, so she can only use it for one or the other during its cooldown, and her ult is a hard engage.

And only a bad Vi would outright use her R for every gank. That's just wasting its teamfighting potential. At least her ult has a high cooldown and less damage than say... Lee Sin's.

Are her ganks great? Oh hell yes. Are Jarvan IV's ganks great? Oh hell yes. Are Lee Sin's ganks great? Not as awesome, I'll admit.

Vi's is basically designed to lock down the carries. In a game full of Kalista Ezreal Corki LeeSin Leblanc it's no wonder she's strong in that regard.

Lee Sin can go toe to toe with her while counterjungling (and i don't mean just autoattacking, mind you), but she is definitely top tier.

She can't be stopped while ulting, but she can still die. Her ult can also be cancelled by becoming untargetable, such as zhonyas, Fizz troll pole, and Yi's alpha strike.