Specific Areas on which you are working on, (offensive,defensive or utility?) would be nice to know More choices for CDR would really make a lot of people happy And a decent magic pen item for melee AP like Ekko and Diana.
If you haven't got that far yet, would you tell us when you get there please?
Thanks
RiotMeddler15 votesWe'll be looking to adjust CDR, Mana and MP5 on AP items as our primary focus, with some potential side changes to things like the Revolver/WotA/Gunblade line. Overall scope of item changes will almost certainly be noticeably smaller than the preseason so this will be much more about adjustments to existing items than adding new ones.
MudintheWater2 votesCan we remove hourglass? It's an item that doesn't need to exist, especially now that Bard can bring untargetability to a team.
RiotMeddler22 votesWe have no plans to remove Zhonya's Hourglass, we believe it both creates interesting gameplay around the stasis and fills an important niche (windowed powerful defense for AP champions).
Edge of Daybreak9 votesWe have no plans to remove Zhonya's Hourglass, we believe it both creates interesting gameplay around the stasis and fills an important niche (windowed powerful defense for AP champions).
As a guy who plays a lot of ad and ap mids. It definitely sucks when the enemy AD buys hexdrinker and you cant just burst them down at all. On the flip side I dont know whether giving ap champions something similar would even help the problem. We could end up with both parties buying this super defense and just being passive because why waste the time if it isn't going to lead anywhere? Is there anything in the works involving AP champions vs AD champions early game? Is hexdrinker going to be toned down a little?
RiotMeddler33 votesWe're considering toning down Hexdrinker and/or Maw in 6.7.
LankPants23 votesNot going to lie, I don't understand how they've lasted this long. Both items have been disgustingly overpowered since the preseason.
Good to hear something might get done about it though.
Retillin16 votesIt's things like this that drive so many people crazy. Corki/Graves/Fiora are allowed to be massively strong for a good amount of time. Swain/Karth are hit hard early to avoid giving them time in the lime light. It just seems so arbitrary.
Dopeson5 votesPart of it is that riot thinks they built "healthy" counterplay into those champs while the older un-reworked champs can be oppressively strong all the time when they are strong. I dont get how fiora has stayed this way. I cant imagine being a low level player playing against one and not understanding how no matter what you build she 1 shots you
Arcane Bullet6 votesThat is because Riot is playing chess with the meta/views for LCS. Corki/Graves/Fiora are all flashy champions when left strong could actually make the game look fun to watch. This is why Duskblade was truly added to the game. AD Assassins didn't need help bursting down their target, but it would help them burst down tanks. The only way this item would have made sense for Assassins to have to kill squishies is if they build Steraks. That is the only item where I think Duskblade actually counters build Steraks. Other than that it is a lot better as a tank killer. Add in a Tank killing item for Assassins it pushes for a Assassin based meta to form. Most of the changes are going to be for LCS/high level play where you will see more meta picks. Riot didn't want Swain/Karth to be in the meta so they nerf them to shove them out of the way.
Dengeden1 votesHextrinker was completely unchanged ...
Steelflame4 votesActually, adding/modifying an item it builds into is a change to Hexdrinker, because it changes it's power value at certain game points.
Back when Hexdrinker was exclusively a T2 item with no upgrade path, it was considered very weak. Mainly because while it made it nearly impossible to lose lane, you would lose a ton of pressure come mid/late game as you either had a T2 item stuck in your inventory, or would have to sell it and take a large loss in gold efficiency. By the way, the old Hexdrinker was even more powerful/gold efficient than the current one is.
Once it got an upgrade into old Maw, it was better, but Maw still was pretty situational because all of it's power was tied into your being low on hp so that the AD based on missing hp could be triggered. This meant it was a situational pick, and couldn't be depended on 100% of the time.
Then we got current maw. It got like 20 more MR, a scaling shield value on MR, to give you a stronger shield, which is further amplified by the very MR you have to make it protect you more, made it a much stronger protective item against APs, but they also gave it one of the most valuable stats in the game, armor pen. Point for point Arpen is FAR more valuable than AD, and THEN they also gave it Lifeline, which means that Maw still has it's old strength of becoming stronger if your hp gets low, it just was changed from more raw AD to sustain and AS.
TheWoollyMammoth5 votesTHANK GOD! I don't suppose you can do something about how powerful Mercurial Scim is? No? sigh. Alright.... 
sp4413 votesQuestion: Why the hell was Maw so outrageously buffed in PreSeason 6? It wasn't like it was a garbage gimmick item only viable on a fingerful of champions like Wit's End, it was a niche, but useful item.
YCitizenSnipsY4 votesBecause Maw was a garbage gimmick. You never finished it after building hex, you just sold hex for a real MR item like BV or GA.
KSHarrison2 votesIt's too bad that these items are being abused by other champions. The efficiency is really good for juggernauts. It would have been cool if they could have been kept to juggernauts somehow.
TheWeatherWax1 votesI don't know why they don't nerf the ability based on ranged stats.. If the champion does most of it's damage as a ranged attack then it would be better to nerf it on that.
On the other hand, as an AP I'd like to have something other than the hourglass. The hourglass makes sense on some AP champs but others... It's really nothing more than a really expensive stasis field that if you're lucky negates the damage of several combos but in practice stops some damage but still gets you killed as soon as you're out of it because the enemy team can now surround you and land every skillshot they have.
KSHarrison1 votesI think the problem here are squishy AD carries building it too, who also happen to be melee.
I agree Hourglass doesn't always feel good. Neither does Mercurial's as an ADC when you're against an AD team. There's definitely a frustrating rift between obtaining necessary utility effects but also feeling good that your combat stats don't go to waste -- or vice versa. It's something League has always suffered from, and I've often thought of better ways doing it.
TheWeatherWax1 votesI think the difference is that ADC's tend to have more options since they tend to build some of the items that were designed for bruisers (Sterak's for instance). AP champions can't really build a Frozen heart it doesn't make sense. Which leaves the hourglass and with the proposed addition of longer cd on it.. sigh I'm starting to think the only champs to play midlane will be support style mages or assassins that can at least blink in and out. Ranged Mages and artillery mages are just not viable.
KSHarrison2 votesYeah ADCs benefited from the juggernaut update because they can dip into that very efficient item pool while mages cannot. Hopefully this mage update helps restore the balance.
MKDkilla3 votesNever understood why Hex/Maw didn't have a gradually decreasing MR shield, like Tahm's shield. It protects against burst as it should, nice, but you're just hurting DPS mages who can't instantly pop it when it stays up for 5 seconds without waning whatsoever.
Foxino3 votesWanted this for a LONG time. AD mids can automatically win lane with that singular item. Meanwhile hourglass (our safety net) is really expensive. Could you consider changing hourglasses cost? Perhaps making it similar to QSS where it has the active on a lower tier item with terrible base stats and perhaps a shorter active duration for the intermediate item? This would put the active on par with QSS, available for both AP and AD champions however the final item is only efficient for one.
xXSexMaster69Xx1 votesWe're considering toning down Hexdrinker and/or Maw in 6.7.
As an adc player hexdrinker into maw feels like the only way to not get instagibbed by the enemy burst mages like leblancs, syndras, kassadins etc. Even with hexdrinker it often feels like I get hit by leblanc Q -> R and I'm still at 15% hp dodging the initial W and E from her. If you do decide to tone down hex / maw I'd prefer to lose some offensive stats if I have to if it means I can survive those combos that have little to no counterplay options to begin with. I do like the fact that atm maw offers enough damage that it's a legitimate option to buy instead of QSS -> schimitar when you just need to survive magic damage.
TheWeatherWax1 votesI'm just asking for a QSS like active for AP's... It's incredibly frustrating to build Zhonya's and then watch an ADC build QSS and instantly shrug off a snare. The build path for Zhonya's is expensive and offers very little in the way of help for an AP mid while working on building it. Yet it's super fast for QSS (buy 1 item, upgrade) to get out of a snare... I don't mind having a cool-down on the item but, it'd be nice to have something like that as an option to keep from being blown up.
Blackquill2 votesI am not certain what the designers thought of when they made the items like that but one thought of me was this: Mages tend to have a little bit better self-peel with some hard CC in their kits while marksmen get things like dashes and slows, rather weak CC (Yes, Vayne has a stun but that one is situational). So intead of getting CC, marksmen get an item that slightly obstructs their build path (you "only" get MR and the active for your gold but no offensive stats and Mercurial rush is not the best thing of the world) but gets them out of CC once every 90 seconds.
I could be wrong but that is how i would argue as a designer.
ducking fizz1 votesThoughts on Mercurial Scimitar
?
hgjkdlsaf jeldvb6 votesway too much shit crammed onto one item. It should compromise your damage in some way. Instead it gives a shit ton of AD, a respectable amount of lifesteal on top of what the builder already has, and it gives mr. Oh, and the cleanse. The item is overloaded.
Troll Pool4 votesThis item is way worse then maw honestly. It just completely nullifies the effect certain mages have in the game. Cleaning CC is such an extremely strong effect that it shouldn't be such an effective and cheap buy honestly.
Even better if it was just removed entirely. I don't see why someone should not be rewarded for landing that skillshot on the ad carry. It's just ridiculous that they get a get out of jail free card while not sacrificing anything for it.
This item just makes entire champions not viable, because they completely rely on landing that crucial CC.
Blackquill6 votesI have a question: Does Maw really need the armor penetration?
AMYS GRAVE1 votesWell its build path has pen through dirk, so it sucks when you upgrade to the final item and lose stats.
Steelflame3 votesTake off Dirk. Make it just a pickaxe, or maybe Vamp Scepter. No defensive item should also be one of the strongest offensive items for the class using it. Maw is just such a case, because of just how much raw value flat Arpen has for an assassin.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesi might actually replace the dirk with a jaurims fist cementing it as a defensive item instead of it giving a buttload of offensive stats while still being a defensive item.
Steelflame3 votesIt already just makes it even worse of an AP shutdown item though. Sure, they are trading out a bit of damage, but a Jarum's Fist means they are gaining HP, giving them actual defense vs other classes, and just doubles down on the power of the fact it is granting the user MR. You just shifted it from an assassin item to a fighter item that counters mages, while assassins can still pick it up for "bad" lanes.
KETSU01 votesyet mages get to keep their obnoxious zhonyas that they claim is underpowered.
SirShaggy4 votesBecause it is. It's not gold efficient at all and delays sustainability (since mages are so reliant on mana and cdr) and mid-game powerspikes. A 2.5 second stasis is not obnoxious. It leaves the person using it extremely vulnerable after the effect ends.
Meanwhile Maw and Scimitar counter AP champs entirely with their brainless always useful shield while still giving vital stats like armor pen, lifesteal, etc.
TheWeatherWax2 votesIt's interesting you say that. The stasis field that the zhonya's has really doesn't actually help most of the AP mage classes who have no choice to build it. It's expensive and not very gold efficient but it's the only armor offered to AP glass cannons specifically for AD. It can negate damage but it also serves as some pretty powerful cc (as in the AP champ using it is stuck where-ever they are for the duration). Since the game relies incredibly on positioning it's rare if ever that the hourglass actually helps. More often than not it is used to "hopefully" mitigate some damage coming your way but in practice it allows the enemy team to completely surround the person in hourglass and land everything they have as soon as they're out. Sometimes it saves.. Usually only in lane and then it goes on cd for quite a while.
The champions that it's powerful on (Liss, Fiddlesticks, Annie, Morgana, Kennen and Mordi) it makes sense to build into their kit. Every other champion really doesn't get much benefit from it but there are no other options against AD. Meanwhile, AD champions have lots of options Merc treads (AP champs have to buy sorc boots for the MP there's no other real options), Merc scimitar, and Maw.. QSS should be more expensive because of the immediate get out of jail free card that it offers... Negating the CC that AP champs or Assassins offer to a team comp. Oh and best part? The person using it gets keep moving while using it. That whole positioning thing.
Meanwhile hourglass? It offers very little while being built and when it does finally finish building more often then not it just delays the inevitable death. Sure, it gives options for outplays but those are rare. The way it works currently it's a "safety" option that sometimes works out but more often then not just delays the outcome.
KETSU01 voteswell assuming you are with your team, they should take advantage of the enemy team grouping around you and set them up for a wombo combo. And about ad champs having more options for magic dmg, its because ap champs usually have a lot of aoe dmg and cc and if you were to add another ap/armor item they would be over tuned while ad champs have only dmg and mobility
Blackquill2 voteswell assuming you are with your team, they should take advantage of the enemy team grouping around you and set them up for a wombo combo.
You seem to forget that for the next 2.5 seconds this is a 4v5. Your team WILL lose a swiftly occuring fight because being out of the fight for 2.5 seconds is an insanely long time in this game.
RoakOriginal1 votesGiving mages sth similar? You have much better version of it... Its called zhonyas... Maw is as weak as a tea compared to that...
LankPants11 votesTaken from the wiki
Maw of Malmortius is 99.23% gold efficient without its passive. Maw of Malmortius' gold efficiency increases to 138.46% when taking magic damage below 30% maximum health.
and
Zhonya's Hourglass is 87.86% gold efficient without its active.
For Zhonya's to be as good as Maw it's active needs to be worth 1425 gold plus what ever Maw's shield is worth, if you use a 1 to 1.5 with HP (it's not as good as HP but it's close) you get a value of at least 2045 gold over Zonya's without active. The Zonya's active is not worth 2000 gold.
Yasûo1 votesTaken from the wiki Maw of Malmortius' gold efficiency increases to 138.46% when taking magic damage below 30% maximum health.
and
For Zhonya's to be as good as Maw it's active needs to be worth 1425 gold plus what ever Maw's shield is worth, if you use a 1 to 1.5 with HP (it's not as good as HP but it's close) you get a value of at least 2045 gold over Zonya's without active. The Zonya's active is not worth 2000 gold.
I think you also need to consider that Maw passive just pops and zhonyas can stop zed ults for example.
Steelflame6 votesGlass still is very situational, and can easily be played around. Oh, X just used Hourglass. Lets just all fling a skillshot at her just as it ends before she can react. Rolf, she insta-died with no chance to do jack shit.
The fact is, a Stasis is a pretty big lockdown. It is the strongest CC in the game, and it's only the fact you are not targetable/damageable that makes it worth while, and even then only because you can possibly time it to negate a large chunk of damage.
TheWeatherWax2 votesAhh but QSS is cheaper and gets AD's there faster than Zhonya's.. The QSS is 1 item and upgrade.. Zhonya's 2 items to armguard, and Needlessly Large rod and the expensive part of it is that Needlessly which is also the base for Rabadon's and Ludens so it's actually more expensive to build. You do not get any protection in the meantime while building it (basic armor and a little AP, nothing as useful as the QSS)
Venedictos1 votesAhh but QSS is cheaper and gets AD's there faster than Zhonya's.. The QSS is 1 item and upgrade.. Zhonya's 2 items to armguard, and Needlessly Large rod and the expensive part of it is that Needlessly which is also the base for Rabadon's and Ludens so it's actually more expensive to build. You do not get any protection in the meantime while building it (basic armor and a little AP, nothing as useful as the QSS)
True, but QSS only removes debuff, it does not make you invunerable for a certain duration. Zhonya's allows a lot of champions to either avoid a full combo of spells or drop their rotation of spells in the middle of the fight, pop the active and then drop another rotation as soon as they come out of Stasis. The latter one can be a really huge tide-turner in a teamfight, unlike QSS that only removes CCs and provides 0 offensive benefits as a standalone item. Also, Scimitar might be a wonder as a full item, but it's build path is a much more weaker one. Not to mention that by the time you build Scimitar you probably have no slots to build all three items, or if you decide to keep QSS as it is, you have to sacrifice a slot that would otherwise be a more powerful offensive stat.
TheWeatherWax4 votesThe problem with this logic is that Zhonya's is pretty much a debuff as well and it's a timing thing. QSS is a get out of jail free card for CC. Zhonya's is the only AP equivalent and it offers nothing in the beginning. It gives barely any armor and offers almost nothing for the AP who has to build it. QSS at least builds into something else which can be a relevant choice based on the type of AD who is using it. In the case of Zhonya's it's not a "possible" build it's pretty much the only protection an AP has against any of the AD damage. It's in every AP build. It's not a niche item it's part of the full build path. AP's also do not get the same boot choices that the rest of the champions get, you're basically stuck with sorc shoes because you need to have m/p.
Also avoiding the "full combo"? You do not often get to avoid a full combo. You might avoid 1 or 2 damage spells. If the enemy champion plays it correctly, they can hold back the full combo and then have everyone skillshot the AP mid by targeting them immediately with everything they have as soon as they come out of Zhonya's.. The AP mid doesn't get the chance to move while it is active which is a lockdown and can quickly become a liability when positioning is incredibly important.
Only certain AP's are made stronger because of Zhonya's (Liss, Morg, Annie, Kennen, Fiddlesticks, and Mordi) the rest of the AP champs who build it use it as a safety net. There are no other choices and it locks AP's into always having to choose the same build. This takes away any kind of diversity in AP mid's. It also doesn't feel very fulfilling when you have no other options to deal with AD. There is literally nothing close to what the AD's get.
It's pretty simple to stop someone with Zhonya's... Wait till they activate it, surround the person in Zhonya's kill them before they can do anything else.
GinoSoldier5 votesWe have no plans to remove Zhonya's Hourglass, we believe it both creates interesting gameplay around the stasis and fills an important niche (windowed powerful defense for AP champions).
That's kind of a shame as the item's active crowds out better alternatives from being implemented. It's impractical to build (currently) and doesn't support core Mage needs in terms of lane sustain in the early game. I'd very honestly rather see it removed to bring an equivalent to Maw for AP to the game. I do wonder what'd the results be if a poll was made on the client for everyone to answer as to whether they want to keep Zhonyas or not (probably an overwhelming yes if i'm honest with myself).
Abyssphere3 votesThat's kind of a shame as the item's active crowds out better alternatives from being implemented. It's impractical to build (currently) and doesn't support core Mage needs in terms of lane sustain in the early game. I'd very honestly rather see it removed to bring an equivalent to Maw for AP to the game. I do wonder what'd the results be if a poll was made on the client for everyone to answer as to whether they want to keep Zhonyas or not (probably an overwhelming yes if i'm honest with myself).
I don't understand why everyone thinks Zhonya's makes it so that no other AP/AR item could possibly exist. If it's really as shit as everyone says then it's not so overwhelming that it would persistently overshadow an alternative item. What about mages being able to build two AP + AR items incl. the Hourglass acive is problematic from a game health point of view?
I understand being frustrated about Zhonya's being the only AP/AR item but what I don't get is why it's always "we have to get rid of Zhonya's to get a better armour item!". Why not both...?
GinoSoldier3 votesI don't understand why everyone thinks Zhonya's makes it so that no other AP/AR item could possibly exist. If it's really as shit as everyone says then it's not so overwhelming that it would persistently overshadow an alternative item. What about mages being able to build two AP + AR items incl. the Hourglass acive is problematic from a game health point of view?
I understand being frustrated about Zhonya's being the only AP/AR item but what I don't get is why it's always "we have to get rid of Zhonya's to get a better armour item!". Why not both...?
Because an AP champion getting both items would become too much for many AD champions to handle, and assassins that can't assassinate are assassins that don't get picked. Having two AP/Armor items would likely throw most assassins out of midlane just because of that. There's also many AP/Tanks like Sejuani who could use those to come back as more AP and less tank, not that that's necessarily a bad thing but it'd make things really strange for a while.
The only way i see it could work is if one (or both) of the two items had a very high total cost so that building it up would take time.
Atanchan3 votesTo be fair, Hourglass is already a pretty expensive item, and if the other AP + Armor item was also good AP + good defense it'd be expensive from the stats alone. And that's for a similar high AP + armor item - there could be a lower end AP item that also gave armor for more immediate need for physical mitigation instead of the more general pick Zhonya's is.
Abyssphere4 votesBecause an AP champion getting both items would become too much for many AD champions to handle, and assassins that can't assassinate are assassins that don't get picked. Having two AP/Armor items would likely throw most assassins out of midlane just because of that. There's also many AP/Tanks like Sejuani who could use those to come back as more AP and less tank, not that that's necessarily a bad thing but it'd make things really strange for a while.
The only way i see it could work is if one (or both) of the two items had a very high total cost so that building it up would take time.
AD assassins have both Maw and Merc Scim - these items grant a total of 85 MR. In addition to this, AD assassins can pretty easily justify buying Merc Threads for boots as they don't have an essential boot like Sorc Shoes for mages.
If mages can deal with their lane opponents buying 85-110 MR then AD assassins can deal with mages getting ~90 armor from two items (especially given Magic Resist needs smaller numbers to be impactful than Armour does). AP assassins have had to deal with their burst being invalidated by AD characters all season long, why would the reverse be so bad?
Regarding "AP tanks would start buying AP", that just... wouldn't happen. ~90 AR and 0 HP from two items would be unacceptably squishy itemisation for tanks and getting a couple hundred AP in exchange for that would not be an abusive trade off.
Lucifer14 votesWhat about adding another item? It feels awful to play against AD mids and only be able to buy Zhonya's, Meanwhile, AD champions get MAW, Mercurial and Merc Treads. A long time ago you guys commented that it's important to keep AD mid honest, which does not feel like the case right now at all.
