Currently, if the enemy team isn't lazy, they can tab and see if I have Flash up by checking whether I have the blue Hextech Flash instead. I think this is way too much information and makes this rune super unattractive regardless of potential merits. I think displaying this information just for allies makes way more sense.
SirPurrr38 votesThe enemy team still needs to know you have Hextech Flash as a rune. I think the proper way to do this is simply to have it displayed instead of the Flash image as half Flash and half Hextech. This way, they understand what rune you have but they don't get free information.
Purejoyce12 votesWhy do they need to know though? It doesn't show anything for many other minor runes, suddenly they need to have this information for some reason? I'm not even using hextech flash, but I don't get why would they need to have that information.
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesBecause it's a lot of important information. Something like the free boots doesn't have the potential for a massive impact on the game (its impact is relatively minor, and is significantly smoothed out), but Hexflash, while relatively shitty an option, still has the potential to have a massive impact on the game.
Purejoyce1 votesBecause it's a lot of important information. Something like the free boots doesn't have the potential for a massive impact on the game (its impact is relatively minor, and is significantly smoothed out), but Hexflash, while relatively shitty an option, still has the potential to have a massive impact on the game.
But it is a potentially important information in many matchups that they can't get the boots when they want to.
And what about 3rd slot of precision or domination tree? What about ultimate hat? Is there an indicator for nullifying orb? (I actually don't know :p) Biscuit delivery? Future's market?
MalrothDragonia1 votesNo it's not, you have zero power over the way your opponent buys, the only potential thing are like counterplay-type items, none of which are locked out by runes. How would you counterplay boots? Or lack of boots?
Purejoyce1 votesNo it's not, you have zero power over the way your opponent buys, the only potential thing are like counterplay-type items, none of which are locked out by runes. How would you counterplay boots? Or lack of boots?
What do you mean "you have zero power over the way your opponent buys"? How's that answer to what I said? And you think boots in lane have no influence on the certain matchups? lmao
MalrothDragonia1 votesI'm not saying boots have no influence, I'm saying the information that your opponent can/can't buy boots shouldn't change how you play against that person. You'll either see if they have boots or not and play accordingly. You can't keep them from buying boots if they can, and you can't make them buy boots, so I fail to see how you change play based on whether or not you know they can buy boots.
Purejoyce1 votesI'm not saying boots have no influence,
"How would you counterplay boots? Or lack of boots?"
Yes, you clearly said that, no need to backpedal now on your own words from literally 1 post ago.
I'm saying the information that your opponent can/can't buy boots shouldn't change how you play against that person.
lmao. Yes, in some cases it should.
MalrothDragonia1 votesI did say that, and I'm not trying to backpedal. Asking about boots counterplay isn't the same as saying they have no impact. They are an important item, mobility is important in League, no one is disputing that.
If you believe it changes how you play in 'some cases' I'd really like to know a case where you play/buy differently because you know your opponent can/can't buy boots.
Purejoyce1 votesI did say that, and I'm not trying to backpedal. Asking about boots counterplay isn't the same as saying they have no impact. They are an important item, mobility is important in League, no one is disputing that.
If something has impact and someone is forbidden to get it, then you -very obviously- can use it for your advantage. If you know that, then stop trying to say it's irrelevant for the sake of not admitting you're wrong.
MalrothDragonia1 votesI didn't say it was irrelevant. this is about need-to-know information in the context of moment-to-moment gameplay decisions. I notice you did not answer the second part of that post, I am totally open to hearing how you would change how you play knowing that your opponent can/can't buy boots.
Purejoyce1 votesI noticed you didn't answer to most of the points in my previous posts, how about we go back to that, you start quoting what you're answering to and then we continue with suddenly being so thorough. Or is this a one-way deal?
And btw the "last part of your post" is nothing else, but just more of the same. Again, if it's not irrelevant, why would you suggest you can't take advantage of that?
MalrothDragonia1 votesAt this point I can't tell if you're just trolling or just don't understand how point-counterpoint work. I asked you for a specific example, you have yet to provide one.
Purejoyce1 votes"point-counterpoint"? You literally can't answer to anything I wrote, lets start with that right after you learn to understand what you read, buddy. :)
You're not in a position to "ask for anything" after you repeatedly failed to answer to anything you commented on, this is not how it works.
MalrothDragonia1 votesso.... trolling. I thought we were having a discussion in good faith. My bad. Have a great day! :D
Purejoyce1 votesYup, as I expected you must have been trolling this whole time, pretty sad.
SamBunzly9 votesActually, your tower will show the little diamonds beside it if someone on the enemy team has Demolish. Likewise, you can always tell if someone has Slightly Magical Boots by looking at their boots. Knowing you have Hextech Flash changes the way people play. Knowing if your enemy's flash is up or not changes what you'll do in that situation. If it displays you have Hexflash up, then they know you won't be able to just flash away if you dive them.
Purejoyce4 votesActually, your tower will show the little diamonds beside it if someone on the enemy team has Demolish.
Yeah, I know.
Likewise, you can always tell if someone has Slightly Magical Boots by looking at their boots.
But you can't tell if someone has slightly magical boots before they get it and that's when this information would ACTUALLY matter.
Knowing if your enemy's flash is up or not changes what you'll do in that situation. If it displays you have Hexflash up, then they know you won't be able to just flash away if you dive them.
I'm not sure why you're thinking I need explanation on that particular part <.<
SamBunzly2 votesMaybe I'd misunderstood your post... XD Apologies, I thought you meant that no other minor runes did that, so I was offering examples.
Purejoyce1 votesMost of them aren't though :D
MalrothDragonia4 votesManaflow band shows in the color of mana bar and a blue glow around your champ's 'hands'. The MR/Armor runs show a circle underneath you when you activate their hardiness. They added a graphic to gathering storm that shows when you hit a new bonus point. Almost every minor rune that has a timer/activation/limited availability has notifications. I don't know where you got the idea they don't.
Purejoyce2 votesMost of them don't, I don't know where you got the idea that they do. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vX6yXijB-dont-show-enemies-i-have-hextech-flash?comment=0003000000000000
MalrothDragonia2 votesI said the ones that have state changes do. Not all minor runes, but ones that change states based on time/stacks/what-have-you do. Ultimate Hat might be an exception? The Legend stacks have a visual indicator each time you get one, biscuit delivery you can see in their inventory bar. Things that are always on tend not to. Nullifying Orb I actually don't know. It might be on the buff bar? It should if it doesn't, though hexdrinker doesn't either, so might be something to be implemented in future. I'd say it should.
Purejoyce1 votesI said the ones that have state changes do. Not all minor runes, but ones that change states based on time/stacks/what-have-you do. Ultimate Hat might be an exception? The Legend stacks have a visual indicator each time you get one, biscuit delivery you can see in their inventory bar. Things that are always on tend not to. Nullifying Orb I actually don't know. It might be on the buff bar? It should if it doesn't, though hexdrinker doesn't either, so might be something to be implemented in future. I'd say it should.
No they don't. And even if they did (they don't), why would you suddenly try to limit them to "stacks/time" or literally whatever else? They all influence the gameplay, they all give bonuses and change the information about player's setup. But suddenly you try to suggest that "that particular group has indicators" (no, they don't)? I said a lot of the minor runed don't have any indicators for the enemy, you tried to suggest they do and asked "where I got that idea from". Don't try to move the goal posts now, buddy.
Exactly, you can see biscuits in their inventory after they get it/use it. By the EXACTLY SAME LOGIC, you can see their hextech flash when they use it in the part of map that you have vision in, so you don't need any earlier indicators, eh? Which is exactly what I'm suggesting, gj.
MalrothDragonia2 votesYou haven't named minor runes with limited power point that don't have an indicator. Instead of typing in all caps why don't you just give me the data that disproves my point. There have always been invisible stats from previous runes, the distinction in knowing when a limited-window ability is available is for windows of opportunity or denial. You can't deny someone or play around invisible stats, and if you want to make a case that no one should have invisible stats that's a different point.
Also if you look at my initial post I clearly state that I'm talking about runes with "a timer/activation/limited availability" I was not talking about all minor runes.
Purejoyce1 votesYou haven't named minor runes with limited power point that don't have an indicator.
I've named minor runes that change the gameflow with no indicator.
Instead of typing in all caps why don't you just give me the data that disproves my point.
I did give you "data that disproves your point" (and vice versa -you didn't give anything that disproves my point).
There have always been invisible stats from previous runes, the distinction in knowing when a limited-window ability is available is for windows of opportunity or denial. You can't deny someone or play around invisible stats, and if you want to make a case that no one should have invisible stats that's a different point.
Yup and I've listed minor runes that give some windows of opportunity, I didn't mention anything that's just pure 'flat bonus from start to the end of the game', but hey, keep being delusional and pretend I didn't. You have some serious trouble with understand what you read. Or maybe you just want to pretend you don't understand what you read, who knows.
Also if you look at my initial post I clearly state that I'm talking about runes with "a timer/activation/limited availability" I was not talking about all minor runes.
You might want to reread the whole comment chain, buddy. But of course, instead of answering to anything I write, better stop at mentioning """all caps""" (damn, those 3 words hit you so hard) and pretend I didn't list or write anything, eh? Classic boards.
MalrothDragonia2 votesYeah, you seem pretty upset my friend. Listen, I mentioned manaflow band, gathering storm, legend stacks, the armor/MR boosters and when their increased bonuses are active, whatever the new stoneborn is, demolisher, all have graphical indicators.
I'm sorry you feel like I'm not hearing you.
I thought you were saying there's no reason to show an indicator for hexflash, and I was just pointing at other minor runes that have windows of opportunity that also show your opponent when you have them up, or when they are active.
I am not saying all minor runes should have an indicator, I was simply showing the precedent present throughout the design. Your post here is a lot of anger at my response and very little data directly addressing my points, and I am more than happy to read whatever you have to say on this.
Just saying "I've given you data" when it must seem like I clearly missed it doesn't help your case.
MalrothDragonia1 votesOk let's go back to the initial comment. Someone says players need to see when hexflash is up, you seem to suggest that other runes don't show you, or don't need to show you when they're up.
"Why do they need to know though? It doesn't show anything for many other minor runes, suddenly they need to have this information for some reason?" -Purejoyce
my answer to this is the same one I've been saying, in that most other windowed runes have visual indicators that are public. That is the explanation. It remains consistent throughout most of rune's design.
The boots is one such rune that you seemed to suggest is hidden power, and I am asking how you would change how you play based on the knowledge of someone having/not having this rune.
What am I misunderstanding?
VictimSix2 votesEsh, I hope your day gets better. I really do. =D
RiotSparkle15 votesYeah, we talked about this one a fair bit internally. I think I've posted something on Hexflash before but the TL;DR is:
We think a player who chooses the rune should get at least 1 good surprise with it. That's most likely why they picked the rune in the first place. Thus, Hexflash doesn't show until you use it the first time and the Flash icon subs out.
HOWEVER, we still want it to be fair for enemies to play against, which is why we show it on the scoreboard so an observant enemy can track the change between Flash/Hexflash.
Will definitely be keeping an eye on this rune to see how it performs, and if we see problems with the level of visibility it has/gets then we may change that paradigm.
ModThe Djinn14 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vX6yXijB,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-11-30T21:39:19.078+0000)
Yeah, we talked about this one a fair bit internally. I think I've posted something on Hexflash before but the TL;DR is:
We think a player who chooses the rune should get at least 1 good surprise with it. That's most likely why they picked the rune in the first place. Thus, Hexflash doesn't show until you use it the first time and the Flash icon subs out.
First use, or first VISIBLE use, out of curiosity? Hopefully the latter?
Also, out of curiosity, why Hexflash and not other important ones like Demolish, Future Market, Overheal, Presence of Mind, Ravenous Hunter, Ingenious Hunter, Ultimate Hat, and other runes that can create major gameplay decisions but aren't easily visible?
SH Azykan4 votesdemolish is easily visible though? look at your tower. If they have the rune you will have little marks under it.
ModThe Djinn3 votes[{quoted}](name=CryF Zykan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vX6yXijB,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2017-11-30T23:39:38.178+0000)
demolish is easily visible though? look at your tower. If they have the rune you will have little marks under it.
While true, it doesn't show you which enemy has it, which can be important if multiple enemies have demolish and I need to decide which one I'm attempting to intercept at tower.
The Yetii Rider1 votesRavenous Hunter is easy to notice. Even with 0 stacks it's still 2.5% spell vamp. If you see your opponent gain a bit of health back whenever they hit with a spell, it's safe to say they have Ravenous Hunter.
Overheal has a clear visible scheme. Your character gets a white shield aura around them.
Quepha2 votesCan’t you use the same icon the player sees? i.e. the flash icon but in the corner there’s a little blue icon of hextech flash that basically says “btw this is here after you flash!”
DeathBurst5 votesMy issue with that is that it basically gives away your Flash CD to the enemy. If I'm Amumu Jungle for instance, and I took Hexflash for exotic ganking path, I'll still play very differently in a team-fight depending on whether my True Flash is available or not. And letting my enemies know for free if I have it or not doesn't feel fair.
I'm all for letting the opponents know I have picked the Hexflash Rune. But don't give them info on my True Flash CD for free.
NefariousQuack3 votesOpinions on the Rengar interaction with Hexflash?
Faceroll Tactics1 votesYou sacrifice damage runes for a gimmick that doesn’t even guarantee a kill. It’s just another noob trap such as Dark Harvest or BC stacking.
SzGamer2271 votesI think you accidentally said "Dark Harvest" instead of "Lethal Tempo". I don't know how you mixed up a rune that helps you one shot an entire enemy team one player at a time and a rune with an easily wasted offensive steroid on a 10 second cooldown, but you couldn't possibly be shit talking my favorite rune, so I have to assume it was a mistake. [slayer-jinx-wink]
NefariousQuack1 votes[{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vX6yXijB,comment-id=000d00030000,timestamp=2017-12-01T13:27:44.353+0000)
You sacrifice damage runes for a gimmick that doesn’t even guarantee a kill. It’s just another noob trap such as Dark Harvest or BC stacking.
It's beyond a gimmick, it's an 8s cooldown spell that gives your leap 300 more range, and allows you to: leap to baron to steal it over the wall, leap to midlane from any of the bushes near it, catch out enemies that really arent expecting it, snowball your lane harder and leap onto enemies that think they are safe from being traded with by your leap
It's a massively powerful tool and you're seriously missing out if you aren't taking it.
Oleandervine1 votesCan you guys work on making it less clunky? Holding the flash button to get an increased range is INCREDIBLY awkward. I think it would be a lot more intuitive if it operated like Kench R or Teleport - in that you select a location, get a short channel/delay, then travel there.
rtbf2256182419 voteshttps://i.imgur.com/DpQ9YJl.png
It's Hexflash.
Bronze 6 Yasuo6 votesIt's op on teemo.
Knalxz6 votesFlash is too powerful even in a Hex form to not detail if someone does or doesn't have it.
Glîtchy2 votesHonestly, you're better off NOT using that one, you can cover that amount of ground faster by walking since it has a channeling time
Hello I am Bird17 votesBut like... Being able to cross to dragon pit...
Dengeden8 votesAnd ... flashing from brushes with CC at the ready ... it hasn't worked so far but it totally will next time.
DeathToEcchi2 votesAny game involving mata will have at least 3 support bans...
TeCoolMage2 voteswhen you play annie and channel hexflash from behind the wall, giving you 2x the engages (but one has to be smarter than the other)
Glory ln Death2 votesDude, Rakan can be disgusting with the Hexflash -> Grand Entrance combo from brush or over a wall. You basically double your engage range.
