DQ Treatise :D

SergeantScuttler·6/17/2016, 10:41:36 PM·44 votes·2,951 views
2016 Season Update

A pure solo player with rank X and a pure 5s player of the same rank don't represent the same skillset. They're vastly different experiences and don't belong on the same ladder in a competitive game. It would be similarly misguided to average out doubles and singles rankings for tennis in order to provide a unified ranking. Just like in DQ's case, this would only create an ambiguous ranking which fails to be a good indicator for either format.

For a ladder to be valid, it has to operate under controlled conditions which are consistent for all its members. DQ adds a myriad of new variables which greatly increase the difficulty in isolating individual skill while also dramatically increasing variance and leading to a feeling of reduced individual control in outcomes (for both directions). Worst of all, many of the variables are not only unequal but also unknowable (voice communication, smurfs boosting friends, well-practiced pre-game plans and strategies etc.). Unknowable variables are especially problematic because it's impossible to perfectly compensate for their absence/presence and their influence can be wildly different from game to game.

When you can't accurately compare players of the same ranking due to potentially huge queue configuration differences, you know the ranking system is broken at its core. These are not just matchmaking or queue time issues. This is about the very legitimacy of ranked and as long as such inconsistent experiences are aggregated on the same ladder, it will always fail in this dimension. Even the best voodoo math cannot change the fact that the fundamentals directly oppose key premises of a viable ladder and such attempts will always lack transparency for laymen anyway.

As ranked is further devalued, motivation to pursue the game seriously will dampen and the primary engine behind the game's growth will eventually stall. When people no longer respect and trust the ranked system, they'll be less driven by self-improvement through streams, guides, as well as watching LCS or absorbing other LoL content.

Forsaking ranked integrity in the hope of attracting more casuals is akin to plunging a dagger through your heart to cure high blood pressure. As the blood pressure first drops, it may seem that cardiovascular health is better but the cruel truth eventually manifests itself. Most of what makes LoL a vibrant game comes from its hardcore fans who make art, create websites, stream, preach to their friends, post on forums, etc. The casuals don't care all that much whether it's normals or ranked anyway and tend to follow the trendsetters from game to game. Even if ranked is more accessible to them, they may never become that "ideal ranked player" who buys a lot of skins and champions. It’s not worth losing the goodwill of the community and frustrating those who actually do care about ranked.

While SQ would be ideal, Riot seems unwilling to let their customers choose which queue will live so I’ve come up with a few compromises. The first would be to simply not allow anything beyond duo queue in Platinum and above. The most vociferous opposition to DQ comes from dedicated players in these ranks and larger premades also lengthen queue times. Since it’s generally accepted that anyone can reach Gold with some effort, allowing DQ and its distortions upon the ranked system only below Platinum is an easier pill to swallow.

Another idea would be to keep DQ but segregate out solo performance almost as if it was a separate queue. This would still be higher variance than a true SQ due to premades but at least all solo players would be exposed to the same variables over sufficient games. Unlike the current system, it would have internal validity and it also wouldn’t kill 4s like a solo ladder probably would.

49 Comments

SergeantScuttler6/17/2016, 10:52:10 PM11 votes

I realize emblems are a way to address some of the issues I posted but they're way too small of a step. They're gimmicks rather than an objective system where you can see your solo performance separately.

Besides not being retroactive, a player could simply DQ with his friends till he gets Platinum 5 or whatever desired rank and play solo from that point onwards to get the emblem. Since you can't see true MMR, it's open to abuse. They'd have to perform at ~Gold 5 level to drop out of Platinum. To others, it will appear that they reached Platinum through their own efforts even if their skill is unchanged. Moreover, it's too easy to get it. You only have to play the majority of your last 25 games solo to get it (which means you can even DQ 13 of them). It doesn't matter what total percentage of your ranked history those 25 games represent.

It also doesn't seem consistent with Riot's vision. Such an emblem actually discourages people from grouping up so that they don't lose it. Wouldn't it be better to just separate the performance and not put any additional strain on someone to maintain some arbitrary emblem?

BloodyTompon6/18/2016, 6:11:06 AM4 votes

For the most part I agree and I can certainly see where you are coming from. However, me being anal, I have to pull you up on a few things.

For a ladder to be valid, it has to operate under controlled conditions which are consistent for all its members

This is incorrect. No ranking ladder operates under perfectly controlled conditions that are consistent and no ladder has a 1:1 correspondence to skill. Some of the reasons are pragmatics, some are philosophical. It's better to think of the rankings as an optimisation towards a particular goal. If your goal is to measure individual skill, then the SoloQ experience does it better than the DynamicQ, but it is incorrect to say that DynamicQ does not do it and SoloQ does.

Forsaking ranked integrity in the hope of attracting more casuals....

You've made a fair few assumptions about casuals and hardcore players here. What makes you think it's mostly those that play ranked (and of that small subset the even small subset that hate dynamicQ) that make art etc? That only hardcore players do ranked etc? What exactly do you consider hardcore and casual players?

Vociferous

Nice word btw.

Another idea would be to keep DQ but segregate out solo performance almost as if it was a separate queue.

Can you elaborate on this please?

69982196_DEL6/18/2016, 12:22:13 AM3 votes

Honestly dude I don't care about reading that wall of text. I'm tired of arguing about the subject, Riot's bs has gone too far to make wanna try. A fucking emblem, a cosmetic is suppossed to make want to play DQ?

dbddbs6/18/2016, 4:08:45 AM3 votes

Well said OP. You've addressed a lot of what I dislike about DQ in a much more beautiful way than I ever could.

Nimble Manta6/18/2016, 3:36:36 AM2 votes

It would be similarly misguided to average out doubles and singles rankings for tennis in order to provide a unified ranking. Just like in DQ's case, this would only create an ambiguous ranking which fails to be a good indicator for either format.

False analogy. A better analogy would be ranking a doubles team that practices together in the same ladder as a doubles team that doesn't practice together... which is what happens so yeah.

Your analogy would be appropraite if riot put twisted treelines and summoners rift on the same ladder.

Cavemantero6/18/2016, 3:00:02 AM2 votes

its k, we got Emblems [slayer-jinx-wink]

The Yetii Rider6/18/2016, 12:02:14 AM2 votes

The solo performance is shown through the champion mastery system. No one will earn that S but you. If you have Mastery 7 on a champion, team work didn't give you that.

DemonofDota6/18/2016, 1:27:54 AM2 votes

Read the first few lines, didn't need to read any further. Good post. Couldn't agree more. +1

Karn Bishop6/18/2016, 2:30:49 AM2 votes

I am tired of trying ot figure out if i can't play certain staple champions because they do not work vs pre mades at all, I am tired of new emblem rewards that are abusused easily, 25 games? really? why not 75% of all games must be solo to keep this icon and dynamic players get no icon because we solo players don't get extra chests, keys or ip bonuses so why do they get a chance to earn our icon?

Dealth6/18/2016, 3:03:53 AM1 votes

is anyone reading this? we already know DQ sucks. Riot knows too.

General Esdeath 6/18/2016, 2:00:41 AM1 votes

That's great! Too bad they're still on my team wondering how they lost as Riven vs Garen.

MonkeyMadness6/18/2016, 7:39:05 AM1 votes

I have a better compromise: bring back soloQ or we Riot...that was a pun...I'm very punny... . . . . . . . . Mordekaiser hue

Blanchimont6/18/2016, 11:57:17 AM1 votes

Even reaching Gold is much more difficult under the Dynamic Queue system because of the ability to queue with players above or below your tier. It is possible for a Silver + Gold duo on your team to have to face a Gold + Platinum duo on the opposite end during a promotion series. This happened to me twice so far and the feeling is awful when you realize that in order to advance into Gold, I have to defeat a Platinum tier player.

I feel that Dynamic Queue is better off as a replacement for Ranked 5v5 than Solo Queue. It's definitely not a solution for both, but perhaps if they set up something like an in game voice system, Dynamic Queue could serve as a way to help people find a ranked team.