Evelynn has a 0% Pick and Ban rate at worlds

Support Evelynn·Oct 9, 2015·87 votes·5,156 views

Better nerf.

82 Comments

MatezoideOct 9, 201532 votes

"Your fault for not playing Lee $in instead rofl"

Rito

SwapShadowsOct 9, 201527 votes

that's not how it works, this is competitive which is a different game from solo Q.

She is toxic in solo Q and it's why she always gets nerfed. Having the ability to completely negate wards in a game mode where you can't rely on your teammates is way too strong.

It's really not hard to comprehend why champs like WW, kass, shen, eve etc get nerfed whenever they get any kind of play and it's due to toxic identities so can't tell if uninformed or joking

Support EvelynnOct 9, 201511 votes

{quoted}

that's not how it works, this is competitive which is a different game from solo Q.

She is toxic in solo Q and it's why she always gets nerfed. Having the ability to completely negate wards in a game mode where you can't rely on your teammates is way too strong.

It's common knowledge to understand that her stealth is disgusting and keeps her nerfed anytime she sees any play.

As if anyone including yourself even wards properly. "Muh wards that I never place".

Funny how that's a strength that'd be really good in a competitive scene where they DO ward properly, but isn't? She's an assassin and assassins thrive on the chaos of soloq is all.

SwapShadowsOct 9, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nXAau3oV,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-09T00:39:10.054+0000)

As if anyone including yourself even wards properly. "Muh wards that I never place".

Funny how that's a strength that'd be really good in a competitive scene where they DO ward properly, but isn't? She's an assassin and assassins thrive on the chaos of soloq is all.

I think you missed an important part, she's permantly stealthed, happens to negate wards and almost always goes jungle.

There's nothing healthy about evelyns ganks and counterjungling, other assassins have completely different playstyles; they need to actually be cautious of wards.

KaisadiIIaOct 9, 20152 votes

I wish they implemented something that granted true vision to counter her. I'd call it "Pink Ward". Even more, I'd create a Pink Trinket.

Mast3rShakeOct 10, 20151 votes

She isn't permanently stealthed, she isn't stealthed in combat, and since she is a jungler that means she is constantly fighting jungle camps so if you ward the camps you see the Eve. If you ward the river brush you don't. So change where you ward and counter jungle her. If you want to treat her like other junglers you deserve to die.

ValyrianBladeOct 9, 201511 votes

First, lots of people ward - just we typically ward mostly for ourselves and not coordinated with the team (i.e.warding our Lane instead of the enemy jungle). Which is why Evelynn ganking via permanent stealth is a little annoying in solo queue. Btw, feel free to check my match history - silver 2 and i upgrade my trinket more often than not and typically place over 20 wards per game as a non-support.

Second, as to why it's not super valuable in world's: Pros are better at warding the enemy jungle, they can spot her doing a camp and figure out where she'll go to gank next and how long it will take.

Even without wards, pros have exceptional knowledge of when a champion will be ready to try a gank.

Further, pros use a lot more pink wards than solo queue players do. I'd guess in over 50% of my games I'm the only one with a pink on the map. I doubt I've ever seen more than 3 pinks from my team at once. Meanwhile, pros regularly have 4 or 5 pinks on the map for each team. When a pink gets destroyed that player replaces it. Pinks give true sight and hence can see eve, so actually her major strength is a LOT weaker in the pro scene.

DeathToHereticsOct 9, 20153 votes

You make a lot of good points, and I agree. Solo queue, even its very name, is a very individualized mode of play. Unless you're doing, most efforts are centered around yourself nine times out of ten. That especially includes warding, which is where Eve is an issue.

I'd also like to point out OP's ward score, http://wardscore.loltools.net/?name=Maya%20Fey&region=na (Can't fancy link on an iPad) And SwapShadow's, http://wardscore.loltools.net/?name=SwapShadows&region=na SS actually wards 2% more than OP, which makes it strange that OP strawmans them by saying

As if anyone including yourself even wards properly. "Muh wards that I never place".

EDIT: Ward score just updated, it's actually 7% now.

NuparuOct 9, 20151 votes

wtf are these ward scores lol

http://wardscore.loltools.net/?name=Nuparu&region=na

i don't think i ward nearly enough but my god lol

ValyrianBladeOct 9, 20151 votes

How exactly does this work... I don't understand why it's only considering a total of 10 games for me... The numbers are also a lot lower than I expected for mine. E.g. if I go to my match history and look through my last 10 ranked games: (role: wards + pinks, minutes of game) ADC: 6 + 1, 22 (enemy team had an afk, no need for wards) Top: 10+1, 34 (I could 1v2, no need for wards when I want to be ganked) Mid: 16+2, 35 Mid: 9+1, 20 ADC: 13+2, 34 ADC: 9+1, 32 ADC: 10+1, 28 ADC: 13+1, 31 ADC: 9+1, 26 Supp: 20+2, 31

So first, it seems these are the 10 games in question (as my support avg is 20.0 wards per game, and it says I've never played a tank or assassin. Seems wrong that it doesn't include pink wards though. Also that it doesn't account for the length of the game (pretty hard to ward much when you barely get to level 9 to upgrade the trinket).

Although it's a little eye opening, was pretty sure I warded more than this. I guess these 10 games may not be the best subset (I'd looked previously and seen better numbers) so I wonder how it selects its data. Still a useful tool though - maybe I just don't play enough to give it data.

RISE Shlack123Oct 9, 20156 votes

Perma-stealth is very strong since each player can only place 1 pink ward at a time. Pink wards are expensive and easily taken out. Eve can take out a pink ward and circle back around in 20 sec, quickly enough that the ward cannot be replaced.

Don't resort to ad hominem attacks. It takes away any credibility your argument might have had.

Bears Dont CareOct 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Perma-stealth is very strong since each player can only place 1 pink ward at a time. Pink wards are expensive and easily taken out. Eve can take out a pink ward and circle back around in 20 sec, quickly enough that the ward cannot be replaced.

Don't resort to ad hominem attacks. It takes away any credibility your argument might have had.

Any champ ever though.

A Miss FortuneOct 9, 20152 votes

Isn't she weaker in solo queue? Her only strength is her stealth, aside from that she's outclassed in everything by other Junglers. Damage, CC, Mobility, clearing, ganking. The only thing that makes Evelynn strong is her stealth, but that's countered by spending 100g.

Riot admitted they balanced Evelynn around pro play, despite her being already very balanced. She could perform extremely well and win games before they even finished the laning phase, but there was at least counterplay to it and Evelynn had to play smart or rely solely on the enemy team playing stupid. Now that she's not ever played competitively, it seems pretty stupid she of all Junglers (Elise, Lee Sin) were consistently nerfed only because of competitive play just for her after her nerfs, to not be played at all.

DehornOct 9, 20151 votes

riot doesnt solely nerf/balance champs based on pro play. my go to example is always the original feral flare. when feral flare first came out everyone lost their shit. master yi and warwick were perma-banned in solo q yet in the pro scene, feral flare junglers lost 100% of games they were played in. 100%... you could not win a high level game if your jungler went feral flare. However, feral flare was almost immediately nerfed into the ground because the force of the solo q tear tsunami was so great.

A Miss FortuneOct 9, 20151 votes

Riot said they were nerfing Evelynn because of her competitive play, not solo queue.

EgyptianOct 9, 20152 votes

a statement like that deserves a source

SalidfingersOct 10, 20151 votes

I thought it was because she has one of the highest win-rates as you play more games with her.

Meaning the better you get the more OP she becomes apparently

KaisadiIIaOct 9, 20151 votes

Feral Flare wasn't played in pro scene because games revolved around taking down lanes as fast as possible, and games were pretty short. You had no time to farm stacks.

DehornOct 10, 20151 votes

exactly. feral was a farming late game item/play-style. high elo play would see a feral jungler, say "oh, we gotta end it early" and pick accordingly. they pick early/mid game comps, invade jungle, etc. thats called counter play. most players dont understand things like this and have the mindset, "i should be able to pay exactly the same and build exactly the same every game. if i lose, then something needs a nerf!"

Saminus MaximusOct 9, 20152 votes

Yea because Evelynn is the only champion that can get past wards without getting spotted right? Shaco Rengar Twitch TwistedFate Pantheon TahmKench

Kitten of EvilOct 9, 20152 votes

You can tell that Rengar's coming by the ! over your head, and TF, TK, and Panth all give bright glowing "I AM ABOUT TO APPEAR IN THIS SPOT" warnings.

Even Shaco and Twitch can be countered by a plain old green ward because they will use stealth to initiate -- before they do so, they are visible to wards. Green ward your tri-bush or river bush, and you'll know when Shaco's about to Q in. Plus, in the 3.5 to 8 seconds they're stealthed, they can only go so far.

Saminus MaximusOct 9, 20151 votes

You can tell that Rengar's coming by the ! over your head

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW_st2H2Y2Y Yep

TF, TK, and Panth all give bright glowing "I AM ABOUT TO APPEAR IN THIS SPOT" warnings.

Which doesnt help if they land behind you, just like a ward wont help if eve comes out of stealth from behind you.

Even Shaco and Twitch can be countered by a plain old green ward because they will use stealth to initiate -- before they do so, they are visible to wards. Green ward your tri-bush or river bush, and you'll know when Shaco's about to Q in. Plus, in the 3.5 to 8 seconds they're stealthed, they can only go so far.

Two things. A - item 3117 are a thing and both can cover a large amount of ground while stealthed. B - Lane ganks are a thing and stealth makes them easy as hell.

Kitten of EvilOct 9, 20151 votes

Perma-stealth is in an entirely different arena. If you've got decent ward coverage, you will know where Rengar is before he ults, just like you'll know where Shaco is (also Shaco gives off a red puff of smoke, even in fog of war -- but still)... and Twitch is almost always in bot lane so an MIA and a ward in river helps out with that if he decides to roam. These other champions will not be invisible the entirety of their time roaming. Shaco has 3.5 seconds on 11 second cooldown, Twitch has 4-8 seconds on a 16 second cooldown.

It's impossible to get (and maintain) pink ward coverage around the map as easily as it is to maintain green ward coverage. A max of 5 pink wards can exist at once per team, and they are visible and can be easily taken out by anyone.

KaisadiIIaOct 9, 20152 votes

You can tell that Rengar's coming by the ! over your head

You mean that one they copied from Evelynn's passive? Because, unlike her, he can actually dash to their target, has increasing movement speed while stealthed (Eve can't because that breaks the stealth) AND his burst is far higher.

I know what you want to say, but that was by far the worst example you could use.

Kitten of EvilOct 9, 20152 votes

That's why it wasn't the only example I gave -- I went down the listed champions one by one and explained how their stealth is limited. But fine, pick one of the examples and ignore the rest (and by the way Rengar's not what I'd call a great design either, but at least the ! is a warning sign that says "Drop a pink ward. Tahm Kench, eat your carry. Janna, shield your carry. Soraka, heal your carry and drop an Equinox at her feet."

Bears Dont CareOct 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nXAau3oV,comment-id=00020002000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-09T20:47:32.933+0000)

That's why it wasn't the only example I gave -- I went down the listed champions one by one and explained how their stealth is limited. But fine, pick one of the examples and ignore the rest (and by the way Rengar's not what I'd call a great design either, but at least the ! is a warning sign that says "Drop a pink ward. Tahm Kench, eat your carry. Janna, shield your carry. Soraka, heal your carry and drop an Equinox at her feet."

Rengar can jump farther than Eve's detection range. He also bursts much harder and faster than eve granting less reaction time. Evelynn gives you a lot more time to respond due to the nature of her kit.

she cannot burst anywhere as hard. gives more time to react. has no gapcloser. Has weaker cc, and has no sustain or tankiness in her kit.

but hey, her avoiding bad wards is an issue

Kitten of EvilOct 10, 20151 votes

Evelynn gives you a lot more time to respond due to the nature of her kit. she cannot burst anywhere as hard. gives more time to react. has no gapcloser.

Well right, as she should. Rengar's stealth is his ultimate. It's got a cooldown. Eve's is her passive and is constantly up. That's a HUGE difference.

Bears Dont CareOct 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nXAau3oV,comment-id=0002000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-10T05:03:38.429+0000)

Well right, as she should. Rengar's stealth is his ultimate. It's got a cooldown. Eve's is her passive and is constantly up. That's a HUGE difference.

You completely missed the point. if Eve's stealth is toxic and bad, wtf is rengars? An apocalypse?

Kitten of EvilOct 10, 20151 votes

I didn't miss the point. I don't think Rengar's is balanced either, but at least it's on his ultimate. Stealth, if it exists, should be temporary and require both mana and a skill slot to use. Is that really so controversial? No other champion has passive perma-stealth. And that's why Eve has been so difficult for Riot to balance. Becuase free perma-stealth is really really hard to balance.

Bears Dont CareOct 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nXAau3oV,comment-id=000200020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-10T21:35:17.156+0000)

I didn't miss the point. I don't think Rengar's is balanced either, but at least it's on his ultimate. Stealth, if it exists, should be temporary and require both mana and a skill slot to use. Is that really so controversial?

Yes, because you need to acknowledge that there are different versions of stealth. There is the true stealth Rengar, Twitch, Kha'zix use, and Evelynn's stealth which is NOT the same.

No other champion has passive perma-stealth. And that's why Eve has been so difficult for Riot to balance. Becuase free perma-stealth is really really hard to balance.

Not really, her passive is quite balanced, it simply demands you play differently, and NO ONE likes to play different. They want to make the same builds. Carry the game. Win.

IN that order. It is why the pros have NO issues with Evelynn and do not play her in worlds. She isn't strong enough, she is too weak, and they see the incoming nerf bat. The only people having issue with her, are the same people who if they were playing street fighter would say "Ryu spams fireballs too well. Nerf."

3TWarriorOct 9, 20151 votes

never seen an evelynn be toxic in solo queue unless it's 3v3 because then her burst can actually be called burst

most of them get like 2 kills all game and no assists

Mast3rShakeOct 10, 20151 votes

She negates wards where you usually put them, not wards. I just played against a Eve and went 11/0/12. I just got a SS as the enemy jungler and warded her camps. We basically knew what side of the map she was on at all time and were even able to invade her.

ThatHaleStateOct 9, 201510 votes

Annnnnnnd now this thread is incorrect

Hayaishi2Oct 9, 20159 votes

They have clearly stated that the nerfs are aimed at the soloq environment, why play dumb?

It's not like they need any excuses to nerf Eve, everyone can clearly see her stealth is toxic except for eve mains.

KaisadiIIaOct 9, 20152 votes

Not eve main here. She's not toxic at all.

Snake TownOct 9, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nXAau3oV,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-09T00:30:59.363+0000)

Evelynn has a 0% Pick and Ban rate at worlds

False.

PiVoRxOct 9, 20155 votes

MasterYi pick rate IN LCS AT ALL = 0 item 3718 use rate IN LCS AT ALL = 0 Nerf yi!, Keep Devourer disabled! LoL

KaisadiIIaOct 9, 20151 votes

Nobody seriously complains about Master Yi. He's pretty useless even in Gold.

CoffeeDaveOct 9, 20152 votes

They haven't picked Nami either and this is after her buffs. I kinda wish at this point they would give her the buffs she really needs (better AP Ratios).

jeremiahBIOOct 10, 20151 votes

YES YES YES

DeadPuddleOct 10, 20152 votes

since the trinkets were introduced invis champs aren't as strong anymore in higher elo (ignoring rengar, his ult is OP because he jumps in, not because he's invisible).

Riot hasn't buffed these invis champs to compensate because then there considered OP in lower elos where they aren't countered with pinks ans sweepers (cos players be dumb yo)

iainB85Oct 9, 20151 votes

Better nerf Irelia.

SeekêrOct 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Better nerf Irelia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfnUMdPjlLc

iainB85Oct 9, 20151 votes

Haha, I love watching TheOddOne.

He's one of the streamers that satisfies the rage that I feel when I'm playing. Lots of screaming and swearing.

SeekêrOct 9, 20151 votes

I think these qq posts are irritating. If you are truly an adept eve player, you will understand how frickin' versatile she is(more so than khazix). All this does is tone down damage evelynn. Just build a frozen heart second or third item and you will be fine. Unless you suck at utilizing her passive in between camps/gank, this nerf shouldnt be a problem.

KaisadiIIaOct 9, 20152 votes

By your logic you can nerf random champions as much as you want because "truly adepts to X will always find a way".

The fact that I can still play eve doesn't mean I have to take unjustified nerfs to her and build a Frozen Heart I don't want in my own build.

SeekêrOct 12, 20151 votes

I think the change is dumb and unnecessary but going on boards to spamm QQ posts doesnt solve anything. If her stats drop as a result of the nerf they will buff her. My logic isnt justifying needless nerfs, it is ridiculing excessive complaining on boards.

KaisadiIIaOct 12, 20151 votes

If her stats drop as a result of the nerf they will buff her.

https://i.gyazo.com/7b702508738eacb8d685430b16235bf8.png

Maybe after a year or two they would buff her, but you don't want to play a game where you have to wait a whole year to play something.

OperationDEEZ1Oct 10, 20152 votes

I play Evelynn. This change is stupid and unnecessary.

SeekêrOct 12, 20151 votes

I dont think the change is necessary either, I just don't think we need to spamm boards to show that. The change will affect her stats and riot will respond in accordance to that change. Have a LITTLE faith in the company we know and love? :)