...an extra 14 AD per Cleaver..... and I'm only losing Duskblade proc, GA, lifesteal, tri-procs, waveclear, RG active, and/or any resistances to do it......
Why do people think this is broken again?
I really dont care. Make 
CDR unique because I'm sure as hell never going to stack Cleavers. Its just funny seeing people freak out over a troll build being "broken OP"
Iota Theta33 votesI think it’s technically 12 additional AD from the second cleaver with level 10, and then after that it’s 24 additional AD per Cleaver.
But your point still stands. It’s really not worth it compared to all the other stuff you could need or get.
Eedat10 votesI figured the math like this. 5 cleavers give 100% CDR. 40% of that is the cap. The remaining 60% x 1.2 AD = 72 AD. 72AD into 5 cleavers is 14.4
Mysticman8912 votesNote that you get 10% cdr from transcendence itself.
Eedat5 votesYeah but thats 12 AD from the rune, not the cleavers
LankPants3 votesNo, it's 12 AD from the rune+Cleavers. The rune and Cleavers both do nothing alone.
It's only fair to do this calculation with 110% CDR because that's what you actually have. That's a total of 16.8 per Cleaver. It's still not good, but it is a better rate than you're listing.
SzGamer2272 votesIt's a completely arbitrary distinction. Totally comes down to how you look at it.
If you see Transcendence as always giving you 10% CDR, and thus see having 100% CDR from Black Cleavers as being 70% excess CDR from items being converted to 84 bonus AD from Transcendence on top of its static 10% CDR, then you would say you get an average of 16.8 AD from each Cleaver.
If you see Transcendence as a bonus that switches from giving you 10% CDR to giving bonus AD when you reach 40% item CDR (as it appears to do in the rune tab) and thus see having 100% CDR from Black Cleavers as being 60% excess CDR from items being converted to 72 bonus AD from Transcendence, then you would say you get an average of 14.4 AD from each Cleaver.
If you see the CDR from both Transcendence and items as being fluid and indistinguishable from each other, then you would see it as being 70% excess CDR being converted to 84 bonus AD, 91% of which is contributed by Black Cleavers, and say that you get an average of 15.3 AD from each Cleaver.
SzGamer2276 votesIt's a completely arbitrary distinction. Totally comes down to how you look at it.
If you see Transcendence as a bonus that switches from giving you 10% CDR to giving bonus AD when you reach 40% item CDR (as it appears to do in the rune tab) and thus see having 100% CDR from Black Cleavers as being 60% excess CDR from items being converted to 72 bonus AD from Transcendence, then you would say you get an average of 14.4 AD from each Cleaver.
If you see Transcendence as always giving you 10% CDR, and thus see having 100% CDR from Black Cleavers as being 70% excess CDR from items being converted to 84 bonus AD from Transcendence on top of its static 10% CDR, then you would say you get an average of 16.8 AD from each Cleaver.
If you see the CDR from both Transcendence and items as being fluid and indistinguishable from each other, then you would see it as being 70% excess CDR being converted to 84 bonus AD, 91% of which is contributed by Black Cleavers, and say that you get an average of 15.3 AD from each Cleaver.
redniwediS27 votesI'd rather the CDR stay as is. Stacking it will remain a noob trap, and it won't be completely unviable to build a second cleaver if for some reason the need arises.
I don't see what need there could be, but options are good.
Onandaga17 votesI can never understand this communities's desire to immediately kill anything that deviates for the norm in way that seems "cheesy", regardless if it is actually OP or not. I personally think its cool to be able build a bunch of the same item and be able to perform decently, as long as it doesn't dominate other builds obviously which this isn't.
Noam Braumsky3 votesI think this is more of a reaction to the FotM attitude towards the build than its viability. I've seen a lot of people joking about how broken it is, about the rune synergy and its cost effectiveness and the stupidly large amount of raw hp and ad it gives. OP is just saying raw stats aren't as valuable as many may think, especially considering the other ad item options and their additional effects beyond stats.
Oakleaf Ranger1 votesits is for an assassin who accomplish the same thing with either build but with one having survivability of a bruiser instead being blown up on focus with the other.
Faceroll Tactics7 votesYea but he still has 0 armor from items so he explodes anyway, just takes maybe an extra spell or 2
I tried it on Riven, and the only thing that saved me was the AD scaling shield, other than that I would implode immediately
GigaPube11 votescos anyone who watches redmercys gaming content will always believe his shitty clickbait titles lmao
Yordle Xayah7 votesOh no, you got the wrong Cleaver mate...
http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/213.image http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/213.image http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/213.image http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/213.image http://www.liquidlegends.net/images/lol/items/213.image
LankPants6 votesPeople are getting so caught up in the cleaver stacking BS they're missing the actual strength of the rune.
Bruisers can get a ton of stats with it if they go 
/ 
+ + 
+ one of the 4 options for MR+10% CDR. From just these items you get 70% CDR, plus 10% from the rune for a total of 80%. That's 48 extra AD for a build with items that bruisers generally want anyway. I think this is the best use case for overstacking Transcendence.
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesThis. That build and a high CDR one for enchanters (Pretty much what Sona gets every time) are the only two cases where the bonus AD/AP are actually going to even be worth the rune.
Hibeki5 votesYou dont usually run more than two is the thing. Getting two gets you 40% cdr and a large amount of AD and hp, then you start building other items
Eedat4 votesGetting two means you dont even get any bonus AD from your passive which is what people are complaining about...... Go ahead and build two cleavers if you want, but just know its an awful build lol
Hibeki6 votesWho says thats the only item with CDR youll be building? 
And various tank items
Eedat3 votesHow do you buy other items and still stack a bunch of cleavers? You just listed 5 items plus "various tank items". Every other item you get reduces the "ZOMG CLEAVER STACKING"
Hibeki12 votesI listed many examples of other items you could buy. Goddamn youre dense.
Z3Sleeper5 votesIt's typically the OP thing to do to think that most people are referring to the OP.
If you read your replies in reference to the OP his responses make more sense. You were just talking about something entirely slightly different (building other items over stacking cleavers). He was implying that your response means that they aren't actually stacking cleavers and therefore the core complaint of cleaver stacking is irrelevant in your example.
No need to call him dense, just a different PoV.
Hibeki1 votesExcept in what I stated you still build 2 cleavers, which is "stacking cleavers"
LankPants2 votes 
.
Total CDR: 90%, AD from CDR: 60 Other stats: 195 AD total 255 bonus AD before other runes, 40% AS, 650 HP, 100 Armour, 45 MR, 650 mana.
Seems like you're getting a ton of stats here to me.
Z3Sleeper8 votesExactly, that's a good build. OP is arguing that stacking Cleavers is sub-optimal cuz you only get 5*Cleaver stats +Transcendence conversion instead of all the stats your suggested build gives.
He never said stacking CDR was dumb.
Hell it's even in the reply you replied to: "How do you buy other items and still stack a bunch of cleavers?"
Durzaka1 votesgetting 2 gives you the 10% extra from running Transcendence.
Also if you do get other items you will get more CDR (like 10% more from Duskblade). So it basically means Duskblade has 12 more AD when you do build it.
Its certainly not great, but it works.
Z3Sleeper1 votesOr just not stack a single Cleaver cuz it's just not worth it. If you're just trying to rush the CDR cap you're still better off just getting + 
so at level 10 you have the 40% and can build Caulfield's into Dusk.
Durzaka3 votesBlack Cleaver also gives a significant chunk of health, which is greatly appreciated by assassins.
If they can still kill people with 2 BC, what exactly is the problem? They are still a threat, and now they have almost 1000 extra hp on top of the extra AD and CDR.
Z3Sleeper2 votesThen they should do that. Don't see the problem with less optimal but viable defensive alternatives as long as they're losing potential damage output in lieu of it.
Bard R Friday1 votesYou dont usually run more than two is the thing. Getting two gets you 40% cdr and a large amount of AD and hp, then you start building other items
why not just build a triforce at that point?
Hibeki1 votesYou do, plus 2 black cleaver. Lol.
starelementpoke3 votesI think people just like making the meme of a bc stacking phase every season.
Salron4 votesThere has never been a "black cleaver stacking phase each season" we had preseason 3 and that was a one time thing only
Need Gold 4 Tent3 votesForget cleaver, stack triangles kappa
Tarbal812 votesIt's more about the gold efficiency of stacking cleavers, not the cleavers themselves. For what you get you're spending less gold.
Eedat6 votesHate to be the bearer of bad news, but BC is very far from being the most cost efficient item in the game. If stacking raw stats was the issue, there are FAR better options than BC
HongChongDong2 votesBecause the Pen from Black cleaver is insane, and most importantly you can have a build that gives you AD equal to or greater than a full AD build but have HP greater than most tanks do.
TotalJerk6 votesThe pen doesn't stack. The second cleaver effectively has no passive.
Danni Chimes2 votesI miss Heart of Gold. :(
Professor Lux3 votesI miss Leviathan.
Danni Chimes1 votesHahha heck yea! Force of Nature though...that was a thing of beauty. When tank items were tank items. :P
Theorex3 votesI miss DeathFire Grasp... Oh wait we are talking about healthy items.
Professor Lux2 votesOld "Fratmogs" build. FoN+WM+Atma's Build for Olaf... Scary, also good riddance but.... Missed all the same.
Danni Chimes1 votesOh. Hell. Yes.
CasterGilgamesh2 votesi miss malady
Khristophoros1 votesIt's a meme but maybe 1 extra cleaver is worth it on some champs? idk
DarwinTheory2 votesIt's a meme but maybe 1 extra cleaver is worth it on some champs? idk
Of course it is. On Garen the CDR and armour shred ticks are effectively doubled and he needs it because.....well he is useless right now.. Not total armour percent reduced but the sped which ticks apply.
It's totally legit but if your team lose the game OMFG YOU NOOB LOOK AT YOUR BUILD REPORT!!!!!!!
Meta sheep are pathetic.
Faceroll Tactics5 votesNo, building an extra cleaver doesn’t double the armor shred ticks. One black cleaver and every 3 levels with E do that.
People think this build sucks because you lose about 1000 gold in passives for every additional cleaver, and it is wildly inefficient for how much you lose
You can do it, but just know it’s not optimal and don’t pretend like it is
Son Foku2 votesIt is worth it, been building
On Wukong. 3100 or so health, well over 500 AD, 1000 damage in just on hit procs running Electrocute.
You don’t have much resistances, but that isn’t the point. You have enough health to asassinate and not trade 1 for 1, you get the CDR cap quickly, and power spike pretty hard at 3 items if running gathering storm with transcendence.
What you lack in life steal you make up for with 1000 health, and similar damage. Don’t need GA because you’re not trading 1 for 1 anymore. I’ve been having great success with it, but I really don’t think it’s broken. It’s just enough to keep you on an even playing field late game.
You’re basically keeping up with ADC’s although through a different route. I’m honestly hoping Riot doesn’t nerf it. Can’t somebody else besides the bot lane scale to the late game?
Skins Project2 votesLegit question, why another cleaver?
IMO another Tri would be better, heck even an essence,
Essence reaver by itself is 20% CDR, and you lose the HP in return for 20% crit and 30 more ad, along with slightly more sustainable mana.
Tri you trade 15 dmg and 150 hp (I think) for 40% attack speed and mana.