instead of Grasp of the Undying.
Also, I've seen people using Thunderlord's Decree on champions like Alistar, Shyvana, Illaoi, and even Yasuo.
Either Thunderlord's Decree is too powerful at the moment, or people are too dumb to take the correct masteries for each champion. I want to think that the latter is the truth.
Lil Lewd Witch4 votesIt's the latter. People think it's good on everyone since the damage sounds high, but a lot of people don't realize that it's every 30 seconds and doesn't scale without building ad or ap. But yeah, everyone and their mother seems to be taking it. I've seen entire 5 man teams have it even, but when you ask them if they know how it works, they have no idea. I personally think the 10 stack ad bonus one is way stronger for people who don't really pay attention to masteries
YumaS2Astral2 votesIt's the latter. People think it's good on everyone since the damage sounds high, but a lot of people don't realize that it's every 30 seconds and doesn't scale without building ad or ap. But yeah, everyone and their mother seems to be taking it. I've seen entire 5 man teams have it even, but when you ask them if they know how it works, they have no idea. I personally think the 10 stack ad bonus one is way stronger for people who don't really pay attention to masteries
I don't really take Thunderlord's Decree on anyone that is not an assassin or a burst mage.
Lil Lewd Witch1 votesI don't really take Thunderlord's Decree on anyone that is not an assassin or a burst mage.
I put it on people I call "Brawlers" neither all in or just farm champs. Like Vladimir, Rylze, Irelia, Lee, etc. People I am going to constantly proc it with on it's 30 seconds cooldown.
ProfDrDeath1 votesIrelia benefits more from Fervor in Ferocity + 12 in Resolve. Unless you go 0/18/12.
Penns1 votesEvery 20 seconds* And it scales pretty well with levels too
Dominick Destine1 votesIt's the latter. People think it's good on everyone since the damage sounds high, but a lot of people don't realize that it's every 30 seconds and doesn't scale without building ad or ap. But yeah, everyone and their mother seems to be taking it. I've seen entire 5 man teams have it even, but when you ask them if they know how it works, they have no idea. I personally think the 10 stack ad bonus one is way stronger for people who don't really pay attention to masteries
20 seconds, not 30.
Ralanr2 votesIt's the latter. I've seen people with Warlords and not build any crit.
Makes the arguments for the old Masteries hilarious imo.
1374342 votesYes, its clear that people are just making generic pages and picking one for the game/champion. They don't seem to realize that, unlike with the old Masteries, it is easy to quickly adjust them in <15s before the start of the game to fine tune them to be optimal for your champ.
The Sword Saint2 votesRight, becuase you don't have to undo the page to make a change, you can shift points left and right at will extremely conveniently.
Guyy Fieri1 votesAll things considered, you can play Some non-crit builds with Warlords, it's a matter of who. Fiora is guaranteed a crit on the second hit off of her activated E. Also, if a support builds Zeke's, it grants 50% crit chance when activated. In both of those, there wouldn't technically be crit bought but could see some benefit from Warlords. With that being said, I still believe that if you take Warlords, you better be building crit.
Ralanr2 votesI've seen too many 
with warlords.
Guyy Fieri1 votesLol. Darius with Warlords is just silly
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesyes, the latter is the truth. picking anything else than 18/0/12 on any champion who isnt heal/shield support is stupid. but im thankful for that because it gives me many free and easy wins.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votes? why wouldn't a non-tank jungler or an assassin deny going 12-18-0?
Why wouldn't a tank or juggernaut not go 18 into resolve?
Heck even some damage supports are better off going 18 into cunning.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesbecause 12 resolve is what gives you strong stuff and 18 doesnt give you much while 18 ferocity makes you much stronger and 12 of 18 cunning points are completely wasted as all you get is merciless + keystone.
its very simple math. cunning is worthless.
PS: and no, junglers dont need +5 damage to monsters AT ALL. it fucking sucks.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votes18 in resolve on tanks gives huge dps and survivability with the masteries before keystones then grasp of the undying(bond is only for supp, and the last one is horrible)
Cunning gives you more burst than ferocity with thunderlord which is useful for ganks on non-tank junglers who are suppose to engage and kill the enemy laner as fast as possible for your laner. Especially the flat hybrid penetration which is more useful than 7% penetration of either for non-tank junglers/assassins/non-DoT mages. Fervor is great on AA-focused non-tank junglers though like yi/trundle.
18 in ferocity is only good on skirmishers and duelist who use fervor or mages who can actually use DFT(Mostly DoT/consistent AoE mages like velkoz/aniv) Warlord is just a noob trap
The only good keystones to actually go for are: Fervor-Duelist/Skirmishers DFT-For DoT or Consistent AoE mages Thunderlord- Assassins/non-tank jungle Grasp- For tanks survivability+dps Windspeaker- For Vlad or a support Bond of stone- For Tank supports
Assassins can also use stormraider but that's just utility for you to reposition after blowing your combo
AyRe CoNteMpT1 voteseven tho thunderlords and precision are good masteries, everything else in the cunning tree is wasted and even tho these two might be better than two from the ferocity tree for many champions, losing so many other points is simply not worth it.
also, the 13-17 slot in resolve and the resolve keystones fucking suck. even on tanks. there is just a very tiny handfull of champions who can use that over ferocity and even for them it makes basically no difference. no matter what role, 12 resolve is MEGA strong and you want that because its the strongest 12 points you can get.
then if you dont want to waste your points, you go ferocity because every single point at least gives something and combined they give alot more than thunderlords or precision. now they want to buff precision and if they do, it might change everything but right now thats simply number facts.
Meep Man1 votesUndying Grasp is better on Shen. Alistar can use a LOT of keystones. Shyvana could use it... Illaoi absolutely should use it in my opinion, but might be better with Undying Grasp to the public. Why would a Yasuo take this over Warlord's still!?
YumaS2Astral1 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKMq4EA1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-08T15:24:39.492+0000)
Undying Grasp is better on Shen. Alistar can use a LOT of keystones. Shyvana could use it... Illaoi absolutely should use it in my opinion, but might be better with Undying Grasp to the public. Why would a Yasuo take this over Warlord's still!?
Alistar is better off using Bond of the Stone or Windspeaker's Blessing. The former makes him more durable, the latter allows him to constantly buff his entire's team armor and MR.
Shyvana should never use Thunderlord's Decree, Grasp of the Undying or Fervor of Battle are waaaaaaaaaay better for her
Illaoi is the same as Shyvana
Yasuo should absoutely take Warlord's Bloodlust and there is no reason for him to take anything else.
ADepressedLeona1 votesAlistar is better off using Bond of the Stone or Windspeaker's Blessing. The former makes him more durable, the latter allows him to constantly buff his entire's team armor and MR.
Shyvana should never use Thunderlord's Decree, Grasp of the Undying or Fervor of Battle are waaaaaaaaaay better for her
Illaoi is the same as Shyvana
Yasuo should absoutely take Warlord's Bloodlust and there is no reason for him to take anything else.
Idk.
Shyvana E+Q+ Thunderlords proc is a lot of damage coming in. I've bursted quite a few squishes with it
EndlessSorcerer1 votesFervor of Battle counts as an on-hit effect, so it will be applied multiple times my Twin Bite and Sated Devourer.
It's really strong on her.
ADepressedLeona1 votesFervor of Battle counts as an on-hit effect, so it will be applied multiple times my Twin Bite and Sated Devourer.
It's really strong on her.
I rarely build sated on Shyv, mostly because I like going Cinderhulk into Titanic+Tank and being unkillable :p (And I just hate farming sated in general.)
EndlessSorcerer1 votesDevourer + Fervor of Battle + Skirmisher's Sabre is generally enough damage to keep me relevant through the rest of the game even if I don't build another offensive item.
Devourer is my primarily offensive item on them due to it's synergy with their kits and Fervor of Battle. Afterwards, pretty much every item I build has defenses.
My builds typically look something like the following:
or 
or 
LaoBushido1 votesMy guess is it has to do with the 45% cooldown which is a pretty appealing stick that in my opinion and that is the best Keystone to go it out of the other options available as the increased shielding doesn't apply to yourself in the movement speed is not really that useful as a tank can do that much damage in the time frame allowed
YumaS2Astral1 votesMy guess is it has to do with the 45% cooldown which is a pretty appealing stick that in my opinion and that is the best Keystone to go it out of the other options available as the increased shielding doesn't apply to yourself in the movement speed is not really that useful as a tank can do that much damage in the time frame allowed
5% extra CDR barely makes a difference for most champions, and you have to dig way too deep on the Cunning tree to take it, making you not be able to take useful masteries from other trees.
Thunderlord's Decree is also not useful for a tank, it falls off late game if you don't build any AD or AP. It is really only useful on assassins and burst mages due to this.
LaoBushido1 votesThat was my point, 5% extra cd is an amazing stat imo brw, now would I go all out to put it on Shen? No as states elsewhere, touch of the undying is the best. But that is not the case for all people 45% cdr witch is ez for thanks to get to is a great stat in shen's case he can blade and taunt more often . My point is out of the mastery avilble for cunning thunder lord is the bests for tanks
SKOBODO1 votesIt's in order to get 45% CDR. 45% CDR is incredibly useful on a tank. Grasp of the Undying is a better keystone for tanks, but Intelligence is better than the tier 5 Resolve masteries.
1374341 votesI think the biggest problem is that Thunderlords feels like the most impactful offensive mastery. You occasionally get that nice burst of lightening from the sky and chunk of extra damage. Other masteries such as Fervor, Warlords, or Deathfire may actually be better for the champ, but because they are small DoTs or linked with your aa's they seem less impactful than they actually are.
In the Resolve tree Grasp of the Undying gets crowded out because it is harder to decide when it is better to take that versus Bond of Stone (even though it should be solo people take the former and supports the latter. Honestly Bond of Stone probably should give you no damage reduction when alone), while Strength of the Ages is clearly best on junglers. In the Cunning tree movement speed is underrated by most players so few take Stormraiders, while Windspeaker's has a clear use on supports.
YumaS2Astral1 votesI think the biggest problem is that Thunderlords feels like the most impactful offensive mastery. You occasionally get that nice burst of lightening from the sky and chunk of extra damage. Other masteries such as Fervor, Warlords, or Deathfire may actually be better for the champ, but because they are small DoTs or linked with your aa's they seem less impactful than they actually are.
In the Resolve tree Grasp of the Undying gets crowded out because it is harder to decide when it is better to take that versus Bond of Stone (even though it should be solo people take the former and supports the latter. Honestly Bond of Stone probably should give you no damage reduction when alone), while Strength of the Ages is clearly best on junglers. In the Cunning tree movement speed is underrated by most players so few take Stormraiders, while Windspeaker's has a clear use on supports.
I use Stormraider's Surge on Fizz. His burst is extremely high already, using Thunderlord's Decree is overkill, and the movement speed is very useful to allow him to escape better when combined with his slippery.
On other hand I would rather use Thunderlord's Decree on Kha'Zix because his burst is usually not high enough even when isolated.
1374341 votesYes, but most players are not thinking "do I have enough damage already that this mastery is not optimal?" Most are thinking how do I maximize damage?
Stormraider's Surge is always going to be underrated. I'll admit I have never used it, but I prefer playing tanky supports or mid mages and am horrible with assassins.
Slamurai Jack1 votesThey've been slowly making all of the alternatives shitty, so they just use Thunderlords. Almost no one in high elo uses Warlords anymore, even on Yasuo. Fervor is about to get nerfed hard and we'll see how many people actually use it still. Grasp of the Undying is still good on tanks but I guarantee Riot is going to nerf that one soon too.
The Sword Saint1 votesPls no, grasp of undying is my dream mastery on fiora for the poke and heal that matches up so closely to her q refresh D:
Stonington1 votesA red recently posted how Thunderlord is applying too much damage and they're fixing it in the next patch.
Auroramancer1 votesThe latter.
Thunderlord's and Bond of Stone are overvalued, while Grasp of the Undying and Fervor of Battle are undervalued.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesTbh undying isn't undervalued since that's core on most if not all tanks, some just like the early game pressure of thunderlord+45% cdr.
The Sword Saint1 votesI've found grasp of undying to be very good on fiora, and on auto attacking champs that could use more sustain in general. It seems less like the 'tank damage mastery' and more like the 'laning sustain mastery'.
Which is totally fine by the way, I've always wanted a way to tech into more lane sustain at the cost of mid-late game damage.
Guyy Fieri1 votesWarlords is how I go on Fiora. Her second hit of E is a guaranteed crit so once you get that ability, it's a little bonus of life steal to help the laning phase.
The Sword Saint1 votesGrasp is 20+ hp instantly on a 4 second cooldown that you can proc with q for cheap or even get for free with an auto attack. If you're relying on your e crit for sustain, you're gonna get a tiny heal on a 10s+ cooldown that also burns an important combat spell and a lot of mana. On someone like trynd who crits all day from level 1 for free or someone like yasuo who rushed crit it makes since because you'll get that free lifsetal every 2 seconds, but fiora doesn't build crit - your e is all you have (not to mention that e doesn't even give a full crit until you rank it to 5, it counts as a crit but only does a fraction of the damage of a normal 'crit', and since the heal is lifesteal thats a reduced amount of healing too).
Guyy Fieri1 votesI don't completely agree with building no crit on Fiora. I think Essense Reaver is quite strong. The crit and CDR and mana sustain are all nice for her imo.
The Sword Saint1 votesFiora does not scale with crit at all. it is a horribly inneficient stat on her.
Q does not crit. The first hit of E NEVER crits. The second hit of E ALWAYS crits. W is not capable of criting. Your ultimate does not scale with crit (unless you count them dying before you finish the ult, which actually results in LESS of a heal).
Fiora is an ad caster who applies her abilities through auto attacks, not a melee adc like she used to be (hell, even then she still built raw ad and ulted people to death instead of a crit build).
Your basic rotation generally consists of q-e1-e2 w to stall for time or block a cc - q again. At no point in there is there even time or room to go for more than maybe 1 or two auto attacks that are even capable of criting. This is even more exaggerated during the ultimate, where you spend any free time between q's outmaneuvering to try and hit all four sides once. There's no time to stand around doing basic autos when you have q, 2 es, and moving around to consider.
The mana is nice, I'll give you that. But it doesn't make up for the horrible gold sink investing anything into crit is on fiora. If it's not super early game and you've getting lots of autos off on someone that aren't part of your e, you're probably fucking up royally somewhere.
Guyy Fieri1 votesThis is actually very helpful. Still new to Fiora, playing her well but going through the usual growing pains of playing a new champion.
The reason I was going for crit was to take advantage of Warlords Bloodlust; which give. The strength of crit items now adays, I feel is in its current really strong.
I explored with Deathfire Touch a bit since she is ability reliant but I just didn't personally care for that. I'll try some other build options out and see how it works.
One aside, I thought that the first E could crit, it just had a dimished possibility. I could be wrong but I thought that's what I read in the tooltip.
The Sword Saint1 votesUnfortunately no, you can't every crit on the first hit of e. Also, though q applies on hit effects do note that e is an on attack effect. This means that q does not apply either the slow or crit from e, nor does it consume the buff.
If any of these things worked, crit would be viable on fiora. I suspect they do not work specifically to AVOID fiora building crit as a design decision.
Guyy Fieri1 votesGotcha. Thanks for the insight.
Abyssphere1 votesI had a Shen take it back when it was considered bad, even.
People will just pick anything that looks like it does a lot of damage. Shen honestly would have done similar amounts with GOTU, while also healing himself. It's not broken - people are just picking it because they're stupid.
NemeBro1 votesinstead of Grasp of the Undying.
Also, I've seen people using Thunderlord's Decree on champions like Alistar, Shyvana, Illaoi, and even Yasuo.
Either Thunderlord's Decree is too powerful at the moment, or people are too dumb to take the correct masteries for each champion. I want to think that the latter is the truth.
Was he playing Lightning Shen?