what if BT built from 8% to 12% lifesteal then 20%?

LilxPaprika··1 votes·476 views

So like a vamp scepter could be upgraded another time for like 250 gold for an extra 4% lifesteal. I understand the need to nerf lifesteal when you did. But I think the main issue was the cap lifesteal not so much the amount you had leading up to your completed BT fully stacked. if you look at the item itself 80 dmg and 20 lifesteal (plus a shield that is also about protection) versus its build bath, the build path isn't really foretelling of what the item will build into.

Seems disproportionate in term of getting the damage first and only the protection on the back end.

Not to mention there are 4 other slots already devoted to damage you'd think the one defensive item would give you more of its defensive build path upfront. since if you wanted more damage you could always just focus on completing the other 4 items instead.

for mages, zhonia gives comparatively quite a bit of armor with seekers armguard compared to the 8% lifesteal imo. if they can stack their armor, why can't adcs have something similar? the 50 armor fully stacked seekers armguard is like having say 15% lifesteal. assuming 5% lifesteal + shield = about same value as say zhonia active.

mhhh okay i did the math and 50 armor is more comparable to 10% lifesteal. any chance it could have a 2% lifesteal upgrade. maybe have it like rod of ages? every two minutes get like 0.5 lifesteal. cap at + 2 lifesteal. Just for BT, since it feels like its in a class of its own compared to the other lifesteal items. seeing as how pricey it is and how much sustain it gives. the other one that comes close to giving as much sustain is gunblade and it has two sustain build paths. imagine if gunblade gave you no spellvamp until you completed the item. thats how blood thirster is like imo. Maybe this same item could also be used to build essence reaver. that way it could have its 10% lifesteal earlier. it would have to be a different item than vampscepter though.

6 Comments

Shadow Gilgamesh1 votes

It essentially does with how common item 1055 is picked up by people who build bloodthirster, that plus item 1053 is 11%. If we ALSO had that step you suggest there would be even LESS reason to finish off your BT before 5/6 items because you'd have 15% until you're forced to sell Dorans

LilxPaprika1 votes

mmmh true. but mages also have flask and many use shield for defense and use mana from doran rings to use it. i don't see anything conflicting with doran blades. what if you had a doran blade and rushed BT third or second item are the doran blades op now? doran blades and botrk can also be attained early on.

I don't see how 10% lifesteal would be so devastating.

what was an issue before the nerfs wasn't the 12% lifesteal scepter so much as the fully capped bt. In fact you could use dorans than too. Overall its still a nerf from before. Now you could have 13% but it requires two slots, I think that's a fair trade off.

Also this item might cost a bit more than the old scepter. this 10% lifesteal item that could build into both BT and Essence Reaver might cost like 875 gold. there are 4 lifesteal items in the game why have them all build from vamp scepter (aside from rageblade). I Think this is one instance where riot's strict abidance to common build paths has gotten in the way of innovation.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Bloodthirster never used to have the passive blood shield, that was added in its rework post nerf when Infinity Edge first became the automatic first item built on almost every ADC (prior to the BT nerf all of the ADCs that currently rush IE used to rush BT.

Bloodthirster is an offensive item, it isn't a defensive item at all. Lifesteal is a sustain stat, not a defensive stat. The shield is defensive understandably, but as I previously mentioned it was a buff made to make the item feasible without bringing it back to the glory of being the default first item on every ADC.

If you want to look at a defensive item similar to BT, I'd say Mercurial Scimitar is your answer. Immediate freedom from ANY/ALL CC and Debuffs on top of some MR (and it still gives plenty of AD). Unfortunately I don't believe there's an armor equivalent, although that should make sense (if there was a good offensive AD item that also gave armor, it would be a default rush item for the huge dueling advantage in lane).

Aside from Mercurial Scimitar, which is more defensive because of the active rather than the MR, you should be considering true defensive items, such as Banshee's Veil or Guardian Angel, when you're an ADC looking for your sixth item.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

Bloodthirster never used to have the passive blood shield

Not sure why you felt the need to explain this. Well aware.

Bloodthirster is an offensive item, it isn't a defensive item at all. Lifesteal is a sustain stat, not a defensive stat. The shield is defensive understandably

Let's not get riled up in semantics, at the end of the day you can take a bigger beating so long as your doing damage.

an adc might consider a second lifesteal item instead of qss. so in that sense its kind of like say a mage getting archangel instead of zhonia Its offensive with a defensive backbone to it.

Anyways aside from discussing all the defensive options, what about the 10% lifesteal do you find is inherently game breaking? That it shouldn't be implemented?

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I was more worked up on this line: "versus its build bath, the build path isn't really foretelling of what the item will build into.

Seems disproportionate in term of getting the damage first and only the protection on the back end."

Was sort of saying that the build path was from before the defensive portion existed. Just because they opted to make slight changes to BT doesn't mean they need to change the build path.

Nothing is really wrong with 10% lifesteal... just that it may make laning a lot easier for some champions if they know they can sit on an upper-mid-tier lifesteal item instead of a lower-mid-tier lifesteal item. It also makes BTs build path a bit easier, as you're automatically reducing that 1150 combine cost. While it's not often that I can't save 1150 once I have a BF Sword, there are definitely games where I base a few times wanting to buy BT but not having the gold.

Changes in build paths have larger impacts than most people realize.

LilxPaprika1 votes

opted to make slight changes to BT doesn't mean they need to change the build path.

thats what im saying fyi scepter used to have 10% and even 12% lifesteal.

i'm not trying to hide the fact that it will be a buff. that's what i'm aiming for. i think adcs sustain right now is underwhelming unless they complete bt. i do think they should be able to sit on a mid tier lifesteal item. I think bortk is in a comparatively good place because it offers attack speed to supplement their damage, same could be said of hydra thanks to its active, they can't really rush BT and still expect to dish out damage. There's a certain attack speed to damage ratio that is ideal.

Not just that since adcs are getting IE, not only should they get IE first, they also need attack speed to supplement it. Then could they finish their BT, but even at this point in the game they might require armor pen first. Hence why you'll often see adcs just sit on a vamp scepter until third or 4th item. i feel like thats the goal of the vamp scepter too, thats what its intended for, a way to hold you over until you can get to your core. right now it barely gets the job done along with a dorans blade. And the nerf to the lifesteal quints as well.

bortk has three things going for it. -It can be completed first item, especially on vayne, kalista. -The initial 8% lifesteal is closer to its end lifesteal amount so the build path gives you a good idea of what you'll be getting once completed -and with the new recurve bow it can lifesteal off the 10 extra dmg passive during the build path.

I think creating a new "thirsty scepter" for BT would help balance it. I feel like they didn't give it much time. they introduced 2% lifesteal quints then realized how op it was, and they pretty much gutted lifesteal as a whole. I get BT was op and i love what they did with the new one. I just think the 8% was overkill. before you could have dps quints and 12% scepter. now you have to sacrifce 3 quints to get it.

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