Kassadin will forever be permaban as long as they keep him an assassin (long read, ideas inside)

thinking man··3 votes·623 views

Kassadin's mobility means that he's generally going to control the pace of a fight and only pick fights when they're a good opportunity, by giving him burst, he will appear next to you and insta-kill you before disappearing a few seconds later, this combined with his extremely long-range pick potential from his RE combo means that he's not very fun to play against since you can't catch him, you can't run from him, and even if you had a chance from running from him, your health bar is null and void anyways.

With that being said, his kit doesn't need major changes; he has interesting abilities and they're not all completely toxic. While his ult will always be a bit toxic to deal with, it's probably better if Riot makes him pay for this power by making his damage require time and commitment to put out. This is why I think the following kit changes would be good for him (I'll justify it as I go along but this is just a summary of why he needs changes):

The actual change parts without justification have been bolded for those that don't care.

Passive - It should be the old passive. For those that don't remember, it still had the 15% magic damage reduction, but it gave AS based on damage mitigated by the passive at a rate of 1% attack speed for every one damage. While this sounds powerful, it wasn't really that strong since 1% AS isn't much, and with how squishy he generally was, a Kassadin would be near-dead by the time it gave him absurd amounts of power. This might need a bit of weakening since the kit is focusing on tankiness, but you can probably fix this by swapping the priorities of his passive with magic resistance, although that feels punishing.

Kassadin gains 1% attack speed for every 1 damage mitigated by his passive, 15% innate magic damage reduction (applies before MR)

Q - His past incarnations of his Q have always been rather boring since they're a ranged damage spell with some other effect on them. Whenever I talked to other Kass mains, they all said they want his silence back in some form since they like the idea of void being silence or something, but silence + blink + burst is bad so this Q will be rather awkward in execution and require Kassadin to have some forethought. It's also a nerf to his pre-six laning phase which honestly isn't too bad since he can bully quite a few mages and still farm well, but oh well, it's a casualty for what's hopefully a greater good.

Kassadin creates a barrier of null energy around him, shielding him for X amount (all damage, not just magic), when the shield breaks or expires, everything around Kassadin is silenced for X seconds.

It's completely a utility spell and you can't reactivate it so Kassadin has to decide whether he wants to go in immediately for a more reliable shield or go in later to get a faster silence. Since he controls the pace of many fights, this'll give him some more interesting options.

W - This needs little changing and I'd imagine it'd be the bread and butter of his kit. While I don't think he should just be an AP version of Irelia, the W damage should be buffed, and it should be changed to the old W where it gives him mana on every hit (reduced against minions) and activating it gives him a sizable amount of magic damage on hit. Perhaps %health damage if he's unable to build deal any damage at all. The current version of his W, however, is extremely broken since the mana restore could be extremely high (there's a specific late-game Kass build with around 3.5k mana that was literally always able to ult whenever his W was up.)

Every auto attack passively gives Kassadin a small amount of mana, greatly increase against champions. Kassadin can activate this ability to gain magic damage on every auto attack.

E - This ability would probably also see little changes, but the base damage should probably be increased a bit since his Q bullying has been removed.

**No change (maybe base damage increase) ** R - I think with the nerfs to his burst, the old style for the ult could work if the ratios were changed. For those of you who don't now, the old R stacked up to 10 times with 100 base mana cost, increasing by 100 for each stack and gaining base damage/ap scaling. The CD, however, was two seconds longer at each rank, which would come back as well. The current ult wouldn't really be fair to him with the W going back to what it was before since that's the only ability that was definitely buffed with the other rework, and his mana regeneration would not be reliable enough unless the W was massively buffed in every aspect with the changes I propose.

Now stacks up to 10 times, scaling starts extremely low at like .2 and gains X base damage, .1 scaling, and 100 mana cost per stack. Stacks last for 12 seconds. CD changed to 9/7/5 from 7/5/3, mana scaling was removed, a percentage of the cost is refunded for hitting a champion (this last part might not stay depending on what they do to his W, assuming they even do this, but it was there before the rework with the worse mana from W)

13 Comments

Stephenizgod2 votes

Hmm havent seen someone ban Kassadin in a long time, well at my elo no one knows how to use him haha

But this was an interesting read.

straight4free1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm havent seen someone ban Kassadin in a long time, well at my elo no one knows how to use him haha

But this was an interesting read.

He's pick/ban in pro.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Ye i bet, he is really strong. Its just im low Silver so no one can actually use him at all. ooooh! Maybe i should try him out, if no one knows how to use him that means no one knows how to counter him.

straight4free1 votes

{quoted}

Ye i bet, he is really strong. Its just im low Silver so no one can actually use him at all. ooooh! Maybe i should try him out, if no one knows how to use him that means no one knows how to counter him.

He doesn't have any counters as long as you can play safe early.

thinking man1 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't have any counters as long as you can play safe early.

It's actually a bit more extreme than that and he'll bully quite a few mages in lane, even pre-six.

straight4free1 votes

{quoted}

It's actually a bit more extreme than that and he'll bully quite a few mages in lane, even pre-six.

It's true but even if you try to counterpick him, all you get is a chance to bully him pre-6.

thinking man1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm havent seen someone ban Kassadin in a long time, well at my elo no one knows how to use him haha

But this was an interesting read.

He's one of the most contested champions in competitive play and he has a decent pick/banrate, much to my sadness since I was playing him for a bit before he became FOTM.

Stephenizgod1 votes

yea im low elo lol If anyone picks Kassadin they usually just feed hardcore.

Dyonas2 votes

As a big fan of Kassadin I've always been curious to see what changes could be made to his kit without losing his identity and iconic ult. I don't really agree with any of the changes other than the W. His current W and mana return rate is what gives him the ability to Rift Walk even at 1200 mana or, as I've discovered myself, escape when you're doomed with no mana by landing an empowered W on a champion before getting out. The basic Flask and W let him stay in lane a lot longer than he was able to previously and means relatively safe farming. It gets a lot of whines when coupled with his potential late scaling. I'm offering my thoughts based on playing him a lot and knowing where he could take hits and get a few buffs without changing him into a monster or a Rift Tickler with no damage.

Passive change - I really find the collision avoidance handy and would prefer it over any return of the attack speed. Kassadin shouldn't be doing melee damage long since it isn't his identity. That's always been to engage on his terms, do a skill rotation and then either withdraw or pursue relentlessly / force opponent to recall. His burst in the past was ridiculous and I honestly never saw it because I only bought him shortly before his rework and had no clue how to use him then.

Q - I don't see silence ever returning in any form given his mobility and it isn't needed. An AoE silence would be worse in a lot of respects than his old Q. What I'd like is some kit variety with a two-stage to it. Q on player, minion etc does flat magic damage. It's a poke but with no shield component the damage can be increased or AP ratio increased. Q on self-cast gives a magic shield, similar to the current shield, but as it has no damage part the shield can be bigger / last longer. There. Now he has to choose to either poke / farm or shield himself, not both.

W - I like your idea.

E - I hate the 99% slow for 1 second. It's horrible to face but that is at rank 5. I really would like it to be 1.5 seconds at least since a lot of other champions have gap closers and slows with far longer slows. I'd willingly take a hit to max targets hit if it meant a damage increase too. It's already a fairly limited skill early with it requiring 6 ability uses to activate along with a cooldown.

R - Stacks increase to maybe 6 max, mana adjusted to make 6 use 1200 mana but remove all damage from it.

thinking man1 votes

{quoted}

As a big fan of Kassadin I've always been curious to see what changes could be made to his kit without losing his identity and iconic ult. I don't really agree with any of the changes other than the W. His current W and mana return rate is what gives him the ability to Rift Walk even at 1200 mana or, as I've discovered myself, escape when you're doomed with no mana by landing an empowered W on a champion before getting out. The basic Flask and W let him stay in lane a lot longer than he was able to previously and means relatively safe farming. It gets a lot of whines when coupled with his potential late scaling. I'm offering my thoughts based on playing him a lot and knowing where he could take hits and get a few buffs without changing him into a monster or a Rift Tickler with no damage.

Passive change - I really find the collision avoidance handy and would prefer it over any return of the attack speed. Kassadin shouldn't be doing melee damage long since it isn't his identity. That's always been to engage on his terms, do a skill rotation and then either withdraw or pursue relentlessly / force opponent to recall. His burst in the past was ridiculous and I honestly never saw it because I only bought him shortly before his rework and had no clue how to use him then.

Q - I don't see silence ever returning in any form given his mobility and it isn't needed. An AoE silence would be worse in a lot of respects than his old Q. What I'd like is some kit variety with a two-stage to it. Q on player, minion etc does flat magic damage. It's a poke but with no shield component the damage can be increased or AP ratio increased. Q on self-cast gives a magic shield, similar to the current shield, but as it has no damage part the shield can be bigger / last longer. There. Now he has to choose to either poke / farm or shield himself, not both.

W - I like your idea.

E - I hate the 99% slow for 1 second. It's horrible to face but that is at rank 5. I really would like it to be 1.5 seconds at least since a lot of other champions have gap closers and slows with far longer slows. I'd willingly take a hit to max targets hit if it meant a damage increase too. It's already a fairly limited skill early with it requiring 6 ability uses to activate along with a cooldown.

R - Stacks increase to maybe 6 max, mana adjusted to make 6 use 1200 mana but remove all damage from it.

Most of the kit that I put out for this was literally just his old kit, but a bit watered down. I feel like the old passive gave him a higher skillcap, and the current passive isn't really too useful since Kassadin being able to bodyblock a champion gives him some power with his superior mobility. As for the Q, the reason why it wouldn't be oppressively broken is because it's zero damage and you have to wait for it to activate naturally, you cannot reactivate the ability so you have to choose whether you think the enemy will pop it immediately or whether you want the earlier silence by pre-casting the shield earlier. It wouldn't be too oppressive, aside from the shield and the passive having weird interactions.

Finally, his ult damage has already been nerfed from S3 and slightly buffed from S4, and Kassadin should feel rewarded for using his ult offensively to do damage. It also shouldn't stack as quickly or as high since Kassadin's W being reverted to the S1-S3 style isn't nearly as bursty, and Kassadin will find himself feeling helpless a lot more quickly, he doesn't have to be gated as hard if he has less burst and slower mana regeneration.

Dyonas1 votes

{quoted}

Most of the kit that I put out for this was literally just his old kit, but a bit watered down. I feel like the old passive gave him a higher skillcap, and the current passive isn't really too useful since Kassadin being able to bodyblock a champion gives him some power with his superior mobility. As for the Q, the reason why it wouldn't be oppressively broken is because it's zero damage and you have to wait for it to activate naturally, you cannot reactivate the ability so you have to choose whether you think the enemy will pop it immediately or whether you want the earlier silence by pre-casting the shield earlier. It wouldn't be too oppressive, aside from the shield and the passive having weird interactions.

Finally, his ult damage has already been nerfed from S3 and slightly buffed from S4, and Kassadin should feel rewarded for using his ult offensively to do damage. It also shouldn't stack as quickly or as high since Kassadin's W being reverted to the S1-S3 style isn't nearly as bursty, and Kassadin will find himself feeling helpless a lot more quickly, he doesn't have to be gated as hard if he has less burst and slower mana regeneration.

Body block? I'll take the ability to escape / chase through a wave of minions over that. It's a lot more useful in general in my opinion.

You say that he can't reactivate it but popping it gives the effect and as it takes both AD and AP damage it will go a lot faster. All he'd have to do is Rift Walk into a team, take the damage to pop it, Zhonya and their whole team is silenced. Do you still think it wouldn't be too oppressive?

Yes his ult damage has been nerfed but if it's a choice of it having damage and being reworked completely I'll take 0 damage and the mobility. He is never going to go back to close to what he was and that's fine but I don't want his identity completely changed such that it might as well be a new champion.

A lot of complaints that end up directed at Kassadin are that you can't catch him (false) and that he has high burst (false unless fed / late game) yet it's never admitted that any slightly mobile champion in a similar position would be able to do whatever has brought up the reaction.

"I flashed and used my escape but he still got me!" Yeah? So could Ahri, Vi, Lee Sin, Zed, Kha, Rengar .... and a whole bunch of other champions. As long as people get butthurt there will be complaints and the biggest one is always the Rift Walk. Nobody else in the game has an ability with less than 200 damage at rank 5. He doesn't burst you like he used to but he can be relentless. Given his lore (not important to many) that fits in very well with him.

thinking man1 votes

{quoted}

Body block? I'll take the ability to escape / chase through a wave of minions over that. It's a lot more useful in general in my opinion.

You say that he can't reactivate it but popping it gives the effect and as it takes both AD and AP damage it will go a lot faster. All he'd have to do is Rift Walk into a team, take the damage to pop it, Zhonya and their whole team is silenced. Do you still think it wouldn't be too oppressive?

Yes his ult damage has been nerfed but if it's a choice of it having damage and being reworked completely I'll take 0 damage and the mobility. He is never going to go back to close to what he was and that's fine but I don't want his identity completely changed such that it might as well be a new champion.

A lot of complaints that end up directed at Kassadin are that you can't catch him (false) and that he has high burst (false unless fed / late game) yet it's never admitted that any slightly mobile champion in a similar position would be able to do whatever has brought up the reaction.

"I flashed and used my escape but he still got me!" Yeah? So could Ahri, Vi, Lee Sin, Zed, Kha, Rengar .... and a whole bunch of other champions. As long as people get butthurt there will be complaints and the biggest one is always the Rift Walk. Nobody else in the game has an ability with less than 200 damage at rank 5. He doesn't burst you like he used to but he can be relentless. Given his lore (not important to many) that fits in very well with him.

Making it so that Kassadin can't pop it gives it a bit more counterplay and it's not as annoying in quite a few situations, so while popping it would still silence them, it definitely doesn't have to be long either, and somebody isn't going to lose ~70% of their health from it.

Also Kassadin's ult should always do damage since it's the only way to make the ability have any interesting decision-making and force him to take actual choices, having just a flash isn't very interesting, and if you choose to, I think you deserve to be able to use it for damage instead of mobility (that's a legit strat now though). It should really keep damage in my opinion.

As for the identity change, this is actually closer to what he was before. He had a silence, everything else is the same ability with minor tweaks, and he wasn't really meant to be too bursty at first; his W gave armor penetration for activating it at one point, funnily enough.

Saying that he doesn't have high burst is also incorrect. Kassadin might not have oppressive burst early on, but I've found that even with a build that's relatively low on AP and penetration (Rod/BV/Ionian Boots then Zhonya's/Void/Rabadon's), I'm still able to take a good chunk of somebody's health with QE, he also has pretty good damage early-game since the W passive is like 20 free AD, and his Q lets him trade even harder with mages. While he won't stand there having a fight with a Zed, he's actually a lot stronger now against most mages than he was before. It's still very easy to get kills early on, and if their mage isn't mobile or able to one-shot you, they're going to have a very difficult time and die after 2-3 all-ins. Kassadin's damage isn't spectacular for an assassin, though, and he's one of those sustained damage champions who needs a longer fight to actually outscale the likes of Zed or Talon in damage, but he definitely ramps up.

It Is I Emoto1 votes

I don't think it's a good decision to give kassadin his silence back, mostly not an aoe silence. I did began to play kassadin after his rework, yet he still feels really strong and can be played very well against skillshot mages, yet he's more of an bruiser than assasin..

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