If you need to make champions scale directly with secondary stats, you've made a mistake.

deadlychuck··1 votes·302 views

Things like crit scaling on Xayah, MF, Cait, Kendred, and Ashe or atk spd scaling on Varus, or Jhin for both. (Probably missed some somewhere, but w/e it's a lot of marksmen) Hell even, Yasuo's double crit.

Are basically equivalent to what world of warcraft did, when they started providing +5% bonus to a specific secondary stat for each of the different specs... It clearly wasn't at all helpful for that stat system, so i don't know why they'd attempt the same thing here.

Secondary stats should be exactly what they sound like, secondary. You shouldn't be scaling directly with secondary stats. All you're doing is pigeonholing champions into a specific stat, because you've given them a primary stat that overlaps with champions who are too different from themselves.

Riot needed to try and limit the viable builds for marksmen, because they gave too many champions, of too large a variety, AD and made all of these secondary stats used by each of these subsets of AD champions, global interaction across all AD.


I think the problem really only has a reasonable solution in increasing the number of Primary stats. This would be a big overhaul, but a necessary one, if you don't want to create a game with such strict bounds that it stagnates. This means, you'd be replacing some of the AD or AP scaling of some champions with this new stat instead.

I mean, this is just a thought, i can try to put together a method of redistributing secondary stats across 4 Primary stats instead of the current 3 (HP, AD and AP). Though that wasn't the purpose of this post, partly because i can't think of a good name for the new stat :P Though how inaccurate the name ATTACK DAMAGE has become, i think it's safe to pretty much call it w/e sounds cool.

(lul, let's make lethality it's own primary stat)

5 Comments

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

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deadlychuck1 votes

Champions need item build diversity and different power curves depending on what stats they prioritize.

That's why i'm saying they should do this. It would mean that you would be able to prioritize different stats to achieve different play styles with different builds.

why would you assume that just because something doesn't work in a mmo, it would not work in a completely different genra? League plays nothing like wow and concepts from one simply does not apply well to the other.

Because this is the core stat design is one that mobas took from RPG games. You've got what amounts to auto attack damage and ability damage. There is a reason that the majority of this wasn't based on "in world of warcraft X, so in league we should Y". No, this is based on the fact that the stat designs are nearly identical, with HP = Stam, AD = Attack Power, AP = Spell Power, and the games utilize them almost identically. The only point i made in comparison was literally

they started providing +5% bonus to a specific secondary stat for each of the different specs... It clearly wasn't at all helpful for that stat system, so i don't know why they'd attempt the same thing here.

That would be boring as hell.

Nor do i see how you'd come to this conclusion. The only difference would be that now you'd have an additional primary stat, and for the majority of champions you wouldn't even notice the difference, and the ones which you did would simply have different more beneficial stats. My thought was basically to take CDR and Crit off of AD items, and apply them to items with this new stat. So marksmen could still take Crit, but it would only be applicable to whatever damage they had which scaled with this new stat in their kit. So they'd be more focused on attack speed and lifesteal.

E.g. Cait traps no longer deal bonus damage based on bonus AD, but instead lethality (not the current version but as a primary stat). So while she would still want to focus on AD and atk spd for her auto attacks, if you wanted to play her to control a zone rather than cut through enemies, you could focus on lethality items meaning you'd have shorter CD traps and they'd be able to crit on their lethality scaling, but it would be at the cost of your normal auto attacks.

More than anything, my thoughts were to make a stat which functioned as what's effectively physical ability power, since AD is basically just another form of ability power for many champions, but they also benefit from all the auto attack itemization just because they use AD.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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deadlychuck1 votes

There is no need for 2 stats to fill the ap role.

Tell that to riot. The point is that there already exist two stats to fill the AP role, because riot started creating a class of champions which are basically melee AD casters. Which includes assassins, most of the skirmishers, and a good number of the fighters. It's just that AD fills both the ability power and attack damage roles, and it should be broken down into it's component parts.

Though i do agree the same could likely be achieved by making more physical damage AP scalings. Though, idk if you'd want the current AD caster classes to be given access to the same items as the AP casters, or vise versa.

There is no need for a primary stat. The game is far more interesting with items giving different mixes of stats and finding a way to optimize in such a setting given the game state and champions.

I completely disagree. The game is far more interesting when you're trying to balance out getting the best uniques with getting the necessary numerical power. When too any unique passives can be utilized by too many different champions, you lose this aspect.

That is way too shallow of an interpretation as to what a moba is.

That's because that isn't an interpretation of what a moba is, it's an interpretation of how a system of stats interacts with their secondary stats through the use of cool downs and rhythmic damage. This has nothing to do with the power curve that would be associate with it, which can, more or less, be manipulated independently of the stat itself. They could make AP have the same power curve as AD, depending on how they set up scaling, stat distribution, and base values. E.g. They could make champions have a natural amount of AP and increase the scaling of abilities while lowering the base damage. You'd then have a champion who follows a similar power curve that of an ADC.

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