For Titanic Hydra to fit Juggernauts better, give the passive a 2 second cooldown

Photos of Ghosts·May 12, 2016·7 votes·338 views

This way, AS-based champs can't abuse it. It becomes a mid-sized burst that you can apply consistently only if you survive long enough during teamfights/duels.

22 Comments

MealReadytoEatMay 12, 20166 votes

The problem with this is it results in odd math where certain gains in AS result in a lower DPS. For example, going from .99 AS to 1.01 AS results in it occurring every 3rd hit, rather than every 2nd.

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

You don't really get to autoattack at your full attack speed on juggernauts generally. But your concern is legitimate; it'd need to be tested.

MealReadytoEatMay 12, 20163 votes

It could be as simple as having the damage based off the time between each proc, similar to DMP.

redniwediSMay 12, 20164 votes

This would fix it for attack speed champions, but it would shift the problem over to true tanks. Juggernauts are not supposed to be super tanks, they are supposed to walk the line between offense and defense, giving them access to the items of tanks and fighters. What this change would do is shift Titanic away from allowing squishy damage dealing melee champions to have tank to giving true tanks a full damage item that doesn't weaken their tank.

I'd much rather keep it as is and just adjust the current abusers so they don't itemize that way.

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

Remember that it scales off HP, a primarily Juggernaut stat.

redniwediSMay 12, 20164 votes

A primary tank stat mainly. As I said Juggernauts are supposed to walk the line between offense and defense. All this change will do is make it go from the offense side to the defense side, and open it up to any defense focused champion.

Sure juggernauts will use it, but what keeps it from being too strong for true tanks?

MealReadytoEatMay 12, 20161 votes

Not really, Juggernauts tend to get similar amounts of HP to tanks, but much less armor/mr. Black cleaver, frozen mallet, etc effect this.

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

Riot said explicitely they want tanks to focus on resistances and Juggernauts on HP, so as to:

make %HP an anti-juggernaut mechanic and true damage an anti-tank mechanic (although they're decently effective on both)
make hybrid attack-defense items specific for juggernauts, and purely defensive/utlity items for tanks (although any of the two can buy both)

FACE THE WlNDMay 12, 20162 votes

So to make it better for juggernauts you want to nerf it for juggernauts...?

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

How so? EDIT: oooh because you're assuming this would happen without some power rebudgeting? Obviously the damage would be much higher than it currently is from a single hit. You'd have less hits, that hit harder.

Crowe StalkerMay 12, 20161 votes

Because Juggernauts never build attack speed except maybe item 3078 ? The point of Juggernauts is to be both beefy and do a lot of damage. If you build attack speed, you are likely sacrificing both vital AD components and Health/Resistances.

EDIT: Well then put that in the OP. Don't suggest something like this without context, otherwise it just looks like you are asking just to get it nerfed (which it really doesn't need to be)

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

But the context is obvious, you don't nerf something out of the blue when you want to change its users. You rebudget it.

Icestar1186May 12, 20162 votes

Never assume people will realize something is obvious. They are not party to your personal thought process.

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

But it's not a thought process - you don't nerf an ok item to change its favored class. You don't substract power to give more to the intended user.

Icestar1186May 12, 20161 votes

Yes, but you didn't specifically say you wanted to increase the damage to compensate. People, as a rule, would not be able to figure that out on their own, no matter how obvious it may sound to you.

xBushxMay 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin n Tonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v9H6oBmE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-12T16:19:26.905+0000)

Because Juggernauts never build attack speed except maybe ? The point of Juggernauts is to be both beefy and do a lot of damage. If you build attack speed, you are likely sacrificing both vital AD components and Health/Resistances.

EDIT: Well then put that in the OP. Don't suggest something like this without context, otherwise it just looks like you are asking just to get it nerfed (which it really doesn't need to be)

I understood perfectly fine without the additional context. But maybe just me.

Tychusfindlay919May 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin n Tonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v9H6oBmE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-12T16:19:26.905+0000)

Because Juggernauts never build attack speed except maybe ? The point of Juggernauts is to be both beefy and do a lot of damage. If you build attack speed, you are likely sacrificing both vital AD components and Health/Resistances.

EDIT: Well then put that in the OP. Don't suggest something like this without context, otherwise it just looks like you are asking just to get it nerfed (which it really doesn't need to be)

You're also missing the fact that many juggernauts have AA resets that can be utilized effectively with current hydra in short 2 second burst timings. This nerf surely would hurt TH abusers, but that doesn't mean it would not hurt juggernauts either.

Tychusfindlay919May 12, 20162 votes

As a Darius main, I don't approve of this.

Think of darius or even garen or even nasus, these champs that fill the spotlight of the juggernaut role.

Darius has an AA reset (W) and garen has an AA reset (Q) and nasus also has an AA reset (Q). If this nerf was put on titanic, it would be very detrimental to juggernauts as well. My AA resets won't benefit from the passive at all and this nerf hurts titanic hydra for everyone, not just stupid champs that abuse it like MasterYi

That's my take on it, I strongly disapprove of this proposal of yours. I say it as a darius main, but moreso a juggernaut main in general.

Photos of GhostsMay 12, 20161 votes

Sure, they all have an autoattack reset. That allows them to get an empowered proc and a normal proc in quick succession. But then? How many can they dish out in a fight compared to a Xin, Vi or Shyvana? If they were time-capped, Juggernauts would actually be able to output as many procs as AS based champions (more if they outlast them which they generally do), and the fewer the individual procs would be much more powerful. I actually wonder if it'd need an active at all in that form.