Please fix Malz's voidlings (from standard minion to summon)

Photos of Ghosts·Nov 20, 2015·125 votes·4,470 views

Currently, Malzahar's minions don't count as damage dealt by him in Death Recap, but as lane minions, and they don't proc Spellvamp, nor Gunblade's "absolute drain". AD Malzahar is a VERY interesting playstyle, please give it some more room for strategic decision.

EDIT: for those saying it's already too strong and that he doesn't need sustain, I'd like to point out that AD Malz needs to stay alive for his minions to do anything, and I don't think this should change, but having more ways to stay alive would basically make him the successful version of Yorick. Also Heimerdinger's turrets and Zyra's plants are ranged and more easily controlled, and DO apply this kind of effect.

87 Comments

Kal Vas FlamNov 20, 201527 votes

Grant his voidlings at 4th evolved state where they jump out of the screen and pee acid on your face.

t0ad5Nov 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Grant his voidlings at 4th evolved state where they jump out of the screen and pee acid on your face.

Only if it is the good kind of acid; thank you Mr. Hoffman.

It Hertz When IPNov 21, 20152 votes

I would buy him and all his skins if this was a thing.

TeslabladeNov 20, 201518 votes

As a longtime former Malz main, having voidlings proc on-hit effects (aside from BC,) would be stupidly overpowered. The death recap thing is a good idea though.

RebonackNov 20, 201510 votes

{quoted}

As a longtime former Malz main, having voidlings proc on-hit effects (aside from BC,) would be stupidly overpowered. The death recap thing is a good idea though.

I don't think this post is asking for them to proc OnHit effects like Mura (which would be crazy). It's just asking for them to consistently apply OnPhysical Damage effects. They apply Cleaver, for example, but not the lifesteal from Death's Dance or Gunblade.

The GovernerNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think this post is asking for them to proc OnHit effects like Mura (which would be crazy). It's just asking for them to consistently apply OnPhysical Damage effects. They apply Cleaver, for example, but not the lifesteal from Death's Dance or Gunblade.

Death's Dance's and Gunblade's unique passives are not lifesteal. They apply to all physical damage dealt (and magic damage, in the case of Hextech Gunblade), regardless of basic attacks or abilities.

I agree with the rest of your point though. Voidlings shouldn't apply on-hit effects, but effects like Death's Dance/Hextech Gunblade should be activated whenever the Voidlings are damaging enemies.

JustMyBassCannonNov 20, 20152 votes

Didn't they recently make it so that champion-summoned units/minions (i.e. Heimer turrets, Zyra plants, etc.) could proc regular spell effects?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I recall Rylai's and Liandry's working on both Heimer and Zyra minions.

ChaoticPineconeNov 21, 20152 votes

As someone who loves going Rylais+Liandries on those two champions, yes - they proc.

What I want to know is if Yorick can proc it as well. If it does, then there might be a consistency for uncontrollable summons.

JustMyBassCannonNov 22, 20151 votes

My brother tested it recently, and he found that Yorick's ghouls do not proc spell effects when they attack.

The GovernerNov 20, 20152 votes

On a sidenote, The Black Cleaver's unique passives are not an on-hit effect, but rather effects that proc on dealing physical damage with abilities and/or basic attacks. This doesn't sound like "on-hit effects" to me.

There is no direct or implied mention of on-hit effects in the OP's post.

Duke AnaxNov 20, 20152 votes

Yeah, what the OP is talking about is that Black Clever's "on dealing physical damage" is apllied by voidlings, but Death' Dance's "on dealing physical damage" is not.

King of MongooseNov 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

As a longtime former Malz main, having voidlings proc on-hit effects (aside from BC,) would be stupidly overpowered. The death recap thing is a good idea though.

lmao i guess playing a champ 8 times with a negative win rate constitutes a main?

https://i.gyazo.com/09f626a8d02a686805b9af34dc46ee2f.png

rekd1Nov 20, 20157 votes

Granted he did say former, which means he could have mained him in previous seasons. Regardless, I'm a Malzahar main (feel free to look me up for proof) and I'm tempted to agree with him. Voidlings are AD, so they shouldn't proc spellvamp. They do have Malzahar's lifesteal, however it only heals the voidlings as opposed to Malzahar. Voidlings receive 150% of Malzahar's AD after 7 seconds and 100% AS after 14 seconds. If they were able to lifesteal FOR Malzahar, then the healing he would receive from just one voidling would be insane come late game.

Photos of GhostsNov 20, 20151 votes

Didn't say this, I said it doesn't proc spell effects (except Rylai, but then why don't they apply Frozen Mallet?) NOR the general healing from Gunblade.

Auz the RipperNov 20, 20151 votes

No, Gunblade does heal Malzahar from the voidling's damage

i wasn't sure so i played a game on dominion to prove it and the damage from voidlings did heal me when i had gunblade.

Photos of GhostsNov 20, 20151 votes

I did a custom 1v0 and rushed gunblade with no masteries. No healing if no spells on the targets.

Auz the RipperNov 21, 20151 votes

in dominion, it worked fine did you have enough AD that the resulting heal would be over 20 hp or did you just have Gunblade by itself?

RozairNov 20, 201515 votes

This is a very good point.

XilixerNov 20, 20155 votes

If they want to keep them coded in as lane minions I demand they allow the banner of command to be applyable.

Dominick DestineNov 20, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-20T11:22:06.881+0000)

AD Malzahar is a VERY troll/throw/playing to lose playstyle

Fixed.

Photos of GhostsNov 20, 20155 votes

The fact that you can't read tooltips doesn't make the build bad.

Dominick DestineNov 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-11-20T20:59:47.935+0000)

The fact that you can't read tooltips doesn't make the build bad.

The fact that its garbage means its garbage.

You can play to lose if you want, but in ranked , playing to lose is reportable (I.e. trolling is reportable)

The Evil SpleenNov 21, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-11-21T00:26:41.003+0000)

The fact that its garbage means its garbage.

You can play to lose if you want, but in ranked , playing to lose is reportable (I.e. trolling is reportable)

It is Aqua Dragon's main... and he is higher ranked than you. Not saying it is because he is better, just saying it is viable.

Dominick DestineNov 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Evil Spleen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-21T00:57:48.619+0000)

It is Aqua Dragon's main... and he is higher ranked than you. Not saying it is because he is better, just saying it is viable.

Link to his stats, or provide stats because you are making a pretty outrageous claim which might be true, but you need to support your claim otherwise it will be dismissed.

Yuri By MailNov 21, 20157 votes

I can do better. Here's a guide he even wrote for it.

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/master-1-ad-jungle-malzahar-the-voids-legion-394091

Can't help but notice he's Master in the title of the guide.

Enjoy your downvotes.

Axis the DragonNov 21, 20152 votes

I remember back in S2 to S4 that MobaFire was ridiculed as a source of really, really bad builds

Is that still the case now or not? I've never actually used nor extensively visited MobaFire before, so yeah

TheWoollyMammothNov 21, 20155 votes

Aqua Dragon33 is one of the highest ranking Malz players in NA. He was number one for a while. Also THE go to guy for anything to do with AD malz. The man is a legend. Mobafire not mobafire. look up his twitch or youtube. or add him and talk to him in person. He knows what he is talking about. He can take a 3 min dragon with malz and easily pulls his own weight.

Yuri By MailNov 21, 20153 votes

It does not matter. The guide confirms that not only does the player exist, but they also have achieved master tier, have been Best Malzahar NA, and that the strategy is so common for them that they made a guide for it.

Dominick DestineNov 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I can do better. Here's a guide he even wrote for it.

That is not better, that is in fact, significantly worse.

To all the kids intending on playing to lose, you are free to do so, but do not be surprised when people in ranked that are putting in their best effort/investing time end up reporting you for your trolling.... rightly so.

Axis the DragonNov 21, 20152 votes

Link to his stats, or provide stats because you are making a pretty outrageous claim which might be true, but you need to support your claim otherwise it will be dismissed.

He gave you literally what you wanted? ._. aquadragon got to master with ad malz, what more did you want?

HawkefireNov 21, 20152 votes

Dont bother with this guy, he is just trying to troll you Axis.

He is merely looking for a cheap laugh and an argument to get his blood boiling.

Dominick DestineNov 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=00060000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-21T05:45:53.861+0000)

He gave you literally what you wanted? ._. aquadragon got to master with ad malz, what more did you want?

No he did not. I asked for stats of the player he referenced, he did not.

Point stands; The kids can play to lose, but will be reported if they troll.

Photos of GhostsNov 21, 20152 votes

And we enjoy being reported for nothing, because it gets the reporter banned on the long run.

The Evil SpleenNov 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-21T01:14:27.244+0000)

Link to his stats, or provide stats because you are making a pretty outrageous claim which might be true, but you need to support your claim otherwise it will be dismissed.

I mean, I assumed you were competent enough to go to lolking.net and do it yourself.... but fine.. here you go.

His -->http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24772699

Yours --> http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/25317193

You could also just watch any of his videos and streams, they got popular because he was wiping the floor in master and diamond using an AD malzahar.

Dominick DestineNov 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Evil Spleen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=000600000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-23T17:43:45.626+0000)

I mean, I assumed you were competent enough to go to lolking.net and do it yourself

I guess expecting someone to provide evidence for their claims is unreasonable in your funny little world. Shrug.

His stats per game are horrendous... and judging from his match history, he is getting carried in every game he wins. Point proven, thanks... his kog stats are far superior... I'd wager to say he probably duo queues to advance because his performance per game with the troll build is complete garbage, go figure huh?

Oh and by the way, my stats overall aside from Diamond V vs Diamond IV.... are MUCH better than his.

The Evil SpleenNov 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=0006000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-23T22:10:37.565+0000)

I guess expecting someone to provide evidence for their claims is unreasonable in your funny little world. Shrug.

His stats per game are horrendous... and judging from his match history, he is getting carried in every game he wins. Point proven, thanks... his kog stats are far superior... I'd wager to say he probably duo queues to advance because his performance per game with the troll build is complete garbage, go figure huh?

Oh and by the way, my stats overall aside from Diamond V vs Diamond IV.... are MUCH better than his.

I mean, it took about 2 seconds to post those links, so assuming you could take two seconds of your day is a little too much I guess. As for his stats with his main (Malzahar) and your main (Evelynn), your win ratios are roughly the same (~58%). Where you begin to become wrong is that his match history is pretty much ranked solo. Also you play an assassin jungler, so your KDA should be higher. He is playing AD Malz, which means he is all about taking objectives. This is where looking at KDA is a moot point. What you should look at is that he is ranked in the top ~8,000 players in NA. You are almost 2x further away from the top than he is, sitting at ~15,400. Where I am going with this is that you can't just say a build is weak when there is quite literally a person who only uses that build and is on average much higher ranked than you. Maybe be less close minded and realize that the build works, you just have to prioritize your role as a jungler much differently.

Dominick DestineNov 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Evil Spleen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=00060000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-23T23:58:30.214+0000)

I mean, it took about 2 seconds to post those links, so assuming you could take two seconds

So you're saying 2 seconds to support your own argument is too much?

I guess that makes sense in your funny little world.

As for his stats with his main (Malzahar) and your main (Evelynn), your win ratios are roughly the same (~58%)

His performance per game is utter trash. I already made that statement, but you are free to ignore it since I know it completely collapses your flimsy argument. It is a troll build, demonstrated in the stats you yourself provided.

gg'd hard.

The Evil SpleenNov 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=000600000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-24T00:01:53.373+0000)

So you're saying 2 seconds to support your own argument is too much?

I guess that makes sense in your funny little world.

His performance per game is utter trash. I already made that statement, but you are free to ignore it since I know it completely collapses your flimsy argument. It is a troll build, demonstrated in the stats you yourself provided.

gg'd hard.

Troll build that got him to master 1... His stats are low because AD malz pushes towers and objectives (which I already said) but in your small mindedness completely ignored. I mean, you can keep sitting at a lower rank than him and denying the fact he is higher than you using primarily a build that is "troll" (and his EUW counter part is Silen who is coincidentally ALSO higher ranked than you using AD malz, go figure). But sure, go ahead and keep arguing KDA when you really don't understand what the purpose of the build is.

Oh, and because as a scientist, when I am just talking with a person I expect them to be able to do a little research on their own. But to make sure you don't whine, here is Silen's profile as well. You can't beat numbers and ranks son, gg.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/233509#ranked-stats

When you reach master 1 with your "non troll builds" let me know. Different builds for different people. Deal with it.

Dominick DestineNov 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Evil Spleen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=0006000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-24T00:13:39.212+0000)

Oh, and because as a scientist

I have already destroyed your flimsy argument (Troll malz build = Awful stats) but the above quoted got my attention. I am a medical doctor (_Technically _ I'm a surgeon but honestly that title is not representative of what I do /cough) and I hang out with other doctors/engineers/legal personnel/etc. literally on a daily basis. I also go to conferences in multiple countries... and guess what; anyone that identifies themselves as "Scientist" is either full of it or just a terrible whatever they are.

"Science" is a broad term that in and of itself is meaningless, if you worked in anything related to science you'd know this. No one (reputable) identifies as "Scientist", how about neurologist? oncology researcher? maxilofacial surgeon? advanced biochemist (insert specific branch here) ? or at bare minimum "embryological science", "medical science" (REALLY broad but at least it has a meaning), etc. This is not a slight against you specifically, but rather something that every single person I know that has higher education accepts as an axiom. ("Hi I'm a scientist" = Instantly recognizable BS)

You are BSing .... just thought I'd call that out. GG'd hard.

The Evil SpleenNov 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=appV3xMn,comment-id=00060000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-24T02:37:30.184+0000)

I have already destroyed your flimsy argument (Troll malz build = Awful stats) but the above quoted got my attention. I am a medical doctor (_Technically _ I'm a surgeon but honestly that title is not representative of what I do /cough) and I hang out with other doctors/engineers/legal personnel/etc. literally on a daily basis. I also go to conferences in multiple countries... and guess what; anyone that identifies themselves as "Scientist" is either full of it or just a terrible whatever they are.

"Science" is a broad term that in and of itself is meaningless, if you worked in anything related to science you'd know this. No one (reputable) identifies as "Scientist", how about neurologist? oncology researcher? maxilofacial surgeon? advanced biochemist (insert specific branch here) ? or at bare minimum "embryological science", "medical science" (REALLY broad but at least it has a meaning), etc. This is not a slight against you specifically, but rather something that every single person I know that has higher education accepts as an axiom. ("Hi I'm a scientist" = Instantly recognizable BS)

You are BSing .... just thought I'd call that out. GG'd hard.

Ok, let me specify. I got my bachelor's in Chemical Engineering from Clarkson University and my master's in Chemical Oceanography form Texas A and M University. Now on to the real talk here. You didn't destroy any argument. The definition of a troll build is one that you are using to either intentionally lose or to flame. The fact of the matter is there are multiple people using ONLY this build who are more successful than you are. Thereby completely negating any shred of correctness in anything you can say. This is not an argument, this is you being flat out wrong. Now I am not saying your builds are troll builds because you are doing worse than the AD Malz you seem to hate. That isn't how logic works. What I am saying is you can point at "BUT STATS!??!" all day and you will still be wrong as they are higher ranked than you. This is where we could have an intelligent discussion, why are his "stats" (which I am assuming you mean KDA) lower than yours. Well first off, he is a higher rank than you. This leads to a conclusion that when he was lower ranked he won more to get where he is. Thus if he was down at your rank, his stats where higher. Seems legit because he would have to win more to increase his rank. Secondly, and this is something you seem to have a problem understanding, AD malz isn't about KDA. His stats for KDA shouldn't be high. He doesn't go around like an assassin and kill people (much like your Evelynn that you want to for some reason compare apples to oranges with). What he does do is secure objectives incredibly well. His minions (with which his build is centered around) push towers and take dragons/barons with incredible ease. He uses his ability to flatten a lane if there is any absence of pressure there from the enemy team. So before you go an repeat your incorrect logic in response to this, read what I have said. And next time you go into a discussion with someone, if you don't understand that the very first point is proving yours incorrect then maybe you shouldn't be discussing anything further in that situation. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

The Voids CallNov 21, 20152 votes

what makes the build objectively bad? It's not his scaling surely, because he has some of the highest AD scaling even among pure AD champions. I hope you're not thinking it's his utility.

AD malzahar is a low mobility AD caster. He deals mixed damage has 2 forms of CC, % health damage, and (unlike just about every other AD caster, excluding jayce's hammer W passive) has mana regen built into his kit.

Now, numerically, his base damages are the highest among just about any AD caster or marksmen (300, 40%, 320, 550). Then AD scaling wise, at 45% CDR you can get 3 voidlings out for about 4-5 seconds. Assuming you'd have a voidling in each stage of their growth, you'd have 100+150+150+100(malzahar's autos) = 500% AD scaling (assuming his attack doesn't crit), each attacking on average once per second. So what other champion can get off 5 auto attacks in 1 second?

This is going to sound crazy to you, but i'm actually an AD mazlahar main. He is by no means weak. Ironically riot ended up having to nerf him. A while back riot removed the 20% bonus damage to minions (and pets) on item 3060 . And removed 20% move speed to nearby minions(and pets) from item 1332 . So explain to me how those nerfs majorly impacted any other champion other than malzahar. Tibbers didn't care, Zyra didn't care, Azir wasn't out, It was pre Morde rework, and riot forgot yorick mori.

So take that 500% damage and increases it by 20% if you're support bought a banner (600%), and captain boots increased reliability and chase potential of the voidlings.

Photos of GhostsNov 21, 20151 votes

You replied to the wrong person bud.

The Voids CallNov 21, 20151 votes

haha mb, oh well

Battlecast SonaNov 20, 20152 votes

playing to lose but can solo dragon comfortably any time after level 3

playing to lose but can easily deal more damage during an ultimate faster than AP Malz can

playing to lose. by being better at everything Malzahar except for pushing waves than AP Malz is.

My Waifu VanillaNov 21, 20152 votes

Pushes waves slower but takes towers infinitely faster than AP Malz. Fine trade-off for me since he still clears waves a decent speed since E has a fairly high base.

Photos of GhostsNov 21, 20151 votes

Only if you really play it fine because turrets focus voidlings.

My Waifu VanillaNov 22, 20151 votes

It still takes towers a lot faster since Voidlings can live I believe 3 shots after the defense buff which is upwards of 450+ damage from the voidling alone along with your AD auto attacks on the turret compared to AP Malz. I am not saying it is Trundle levels of tower taking or anything but it is quite a bit faster than AP Malz.

Pierce The VealNov 20, 20153 votes

Yeah I was wondering why 12% of physical damage and 15% of ALL damage didn't apply to his voidlings. For the sake of consistency, I think they definitely need to apply.

Baron PerenoldeNov 21, 20152 votes

Don't bother arguing with Dominick Destine, he's one of those tools who thinks he's always right and everyone else is stupid for disagreeing with him.

Photos of GhostsNov 21, 20153 votes

Sorry, can't hold back from telling him a couple things that will leave subconscious doubts in him. The thought that one day he might meet an AD Malz and get destroyed, and while he blames lag and the jungler and scripts and... he actually has the little worm in his mind telling him that he was wrong and ignorant... And the thought that one of the several permabans that he'll get might be just for abusing the report function, and that while he blames premades and the automated system and Lyte's PhD and... in the depths of his mind he'll know that it's only his close-mindedness that is accountable for it... it fills me with DETERMINATION. And it also makes me laugh my ass off tbh.