He doesn't just aoe your backline, but he's also able to move freely while doing so. That alone is just nuts. And unlike adc's with aoe (ezreal, kog, etc) he doesn't have to aim. It's literally impossible to fail with this ability. And then he gets even more aoe damage from his 'e'. Combined with his stealth this champ will never be balanced.
Jamaree4 votesWhy are you always like months late for QQ trains?
Cloud2731 votesWhy are you always like months late for QQ trains?
Do you even have a counter argument?
Jamaree4 votesDo you even have a counter argument?
Literally all he has is damage and invis and if he is caught out he is dead, he has no good peeling cc. While I hate invis with a passion it is his only way to be decent because without it the rest of his kit is pretty meph.
The ultimate is nice but the fact it has ammo, doesn’t auto find targets reliably and has a short window to be used makes it weaker then it has to be.
And no, invis isn’t a defense, especially since it can’t be used in defense to get people off him, if he could use it mid combat when people was on him to disengage it would be defense but as it currently stands it can only be used for map pressure and setting up.
Cloud2731 votesLiterally all he has is damage and invis and if he is caught out he is dead, he has no good peeling cc. While I hate invis with a passion it is his only way to be decent because without it the rest of his kit is pretty meph.
The ultimate is nice but the fact it has ammo, doesn’t auto find targets reliably and has a short window to be used makes it weaker then it has to be.
And no, invis isn’t a defense, especially since it can’t be used in defense to get people off him, if he could use it mid combat when people was on him to disengage it would be defense but as it currently stands it can only be used for map pressure and setting up.
"All he has is damage". I could say the same thing about literally any adc in this game but it doesn't make them balanced. And If you get caught out with stealth I have zero sympathy for you.
Jamaree3 votes"All he has is damage". I could say the same thing about literally any adc in this game but it doesn't make them balanced.
Except that isn’t true, other adcs have more utility, more mobility, more damage, self peel, the list goes on.
In dream scenarios where everyone stands in a straight line, Twitch would be the best champion in the game, but that doesn’t happen, the question falls down to why would I take Twitch when I can take Jhin and do more damage and be more mobile with longer range, why would I take Twitch when I can take Kai sa and have invisibility that can actually be used to escape, why would I take Twitch for his ultimate when I can take MF and have more raw dps on top of a functionally better team fight ultimate?
And If you get caught out with stealth I have zero sympathy for you.
Well you have two options with his stealth, use it to set up an ambush and risk getting collapsed on with no escapes, or use it pre emptively to escape and neuter your damage.
Elite4Runner1 votesI completely agree with you, but Twitch can use his Ambush "defensively" (using the term loosely in this case) because he can activate it in combat to become camouflaged, then stealthed after 1 second. He can essentially use this to evade a fight .. if he doesn't get utterly destroyed first.
Jamaree1 votesI completely agree with you, but Twitch can use his Ambush "defensively" (using the term loosely in this case) because he can activate it in combat to become camouflaged, then stealthed after 1 second. He can essentially use this to evade a fight .. if he doesn't get utterly destroyed first.
Which is rare for him to do because he doesn’t have the girth to survive focus especially in the current meta.
SwiftKitten881 votesWhich is rare for him to do because he doesn’t have the girth to survive focus especially in the current meta.
.. a 
with 
donest have the "girth" to survive focus in the current meta...
Jamaree2 votes.. a
Which is why Twitch is even more dead if one of the possibily tankiest champions in the game can’t survive, exactly my point.
SwiftKitten881 votesWhich is why Twitch is even more dead if one of the possibily tankiest champions in the game can’t survive, exactly my point.
my point was if you get focused.. your dead.. it donest matter who the hell your playing with very few exceptions, so giving that as an example means nothing.. just like saying 
is mobility,, aggreed its NOT molbity because EVERYONE has it.. and if you don't have it, your champ isn't designed very well
twitch right now is pretty balanced.. i would personally revert his invis to a much shorter duration but allow him to get as close as he wants.
becuase imo that actaully have him more counterplay becuase things like 
were actually much more lukely to find him and if u did he was much more dead. as oppsed to being at long range where is he out of reach of most champs, and has effectively endless time to get there.
but the fact try to even use "if he gets caught out he dies" as a part of a argument is stupid.. if ANYONE gets caught out they die..
dont get caught out.
thats like me trying to say 
isnt broken becuase if you take 20 turrent shots at lvl 3 i die.
i mean well YEAH thats certainly TRUE, but that doesn't really do much for your argument.
u just dont do that.. if u did... u fucked up.. its not a defense
Jamaree1 votesmy point was if you get focused.. your dead.. it donest matter who the hell your playing with very few exceptions, so giving that as an example means nothing.. just like saying
twitch right now is pretty balanced.. i would personally revert his invis to a much shorter duration but allow him to get as close as he wants.
becuase imo that actaully have him more counterplay becuase things like
but the fact try to even use "if he gets caught out he dies" as a part of a argument is stupid.. if ANYONE gets caught out they die..
dont get caught out.
thats like me trying to say
i mean well YEAH thats certainly TRUE, but that doesn't really do much for your argument.
u just dont do that.. if u did... u fucked up.. its not a defense
I also agree he is balanced but my point is that he lacks the tools to survive someone even looking in his direction with his utter lack of self heal which means he gets a lot of damage instead/
Cloud2731 votesI also agree he is balanced but my point is that he lacks the tools to survive someone even looking in his direction with his utter lack of self heal which means he gets a lot of damage instead/
If you want to talk about getting caught, let's talk about how miss fortune, jinx, ezreal, etc can't move while ulting. As I said Twitch can move freely during his ult, and he gets stealth with a ms boost. There's absolutely no reason why this champ should ever get caught. He's literally the safest adc in the game.
Jamaree1 votesIf you want to talk about getting caught, let's talk about how miss fortune
Yeah, and because of that, the DPS of her ultimate can potentially do far more damage then Twitch's.
jinx
Her ultimate can be used globally.
ezreal
And he has a flash in his kit on top of it being global.
etc can't move while ulting.
And because they can't move, can either do more damage or are global.
As I said Twitch can move freely during his ult, and he gets stealth with a ms boost. There's absolutely no reason why this champ should ever get caught. He's literally the safest adc in the game.
Except he isn't, hence why he isn't seeing any play right now.
SwiftKitten881 votesLiterally all he has is damage and invis and if he is caught out he is dead, he has no good peeling cc. While I hate invis with a passion it is his only way to be decent because without it the rest of his kit is pretty meph.
u can catch out 99% of champions in the game and they would end up dead.. that's no point
The ultimate is nice but the fact it has ammo, doesn’t auto find targets reliably and has a short window to be used makes it weaker then it has to be.
And no, invis isn’t a defense, especially since it can’t be used in defense to get people off him, if he could use it mid combat when people was on him to disengage it would be defense but as it currently stands it can only be used for map pressure and setting up.
thats not true, i mean sure its not going to help you if your in melee range of him.. but as soon as u get out of detection range which u can do fairly but your a ranged champ... if your in melee range of the enemy.. well u kinda screwed up.
were not taling about a semi ranged champ like 
who goes in or a champ that swaps forms like 
or 
twitch has no reason to EVER be in melee range.
if and his invis + movement speed boost cant get him out of range... he REALLY shouldn't haven been there
Jamaree1 votesu can catch out 99% of champions in the game and they would end up dead.. that's no point
That is the point though, other adcs have some way of self peeling or more reliable speed increases, Twitch doesn’t as his means of escape is the same as his means of engage, it is like saying Teemo is mobile because of his W.
thats not true, i mean sure its not going to help you if your in melee range of him.. but as soon as u get out of detection range which u can do fairly but your a ranged champ... if your in melee range of the enemy.. well u kinda screwed up.
Exactly and in this current year of Zeds, Jaxs, Garens, Dariuses, you aren’t getting out of melee range once they get in on top of lack the tools to get out.
were not taling about a semi ranged champ like
twitch has no reason to EVER be in melee range.
if
Zed doesn’t care about that, or Jax, or Irelia, or Camille, you also can’t count flash as mobility because everyone has it.
Hayaishi21 votesLiterally all he has is damage and invis and if he is caught out he is dead, he has no good peeling cc. While I hate invis with a passion it is his only way to be decent because without it the rest of his kit is pretty meph.
The ultimate is nice but the fact it has ammo, doesn’t auto find targets reliably and has a short window to be used makes it weaker then it has to be.
And no, invis isn’t a defense, especially since it can’t be used in defense to get people off him, if he could use it mid combat when people was on him to disengage it would be defense but as it currently stands it can only be used for map pressure and setting up.
Ur just bad if you think stealth isn't defense. Stealth pretty much allows twitch to pick up farm from side lanes without being punished. That alone is huge.
Jamaree1 votesUr just bad if you think stealth isn't defense. Stealth pretty much allows twitch to pick up farm from side lanes without being punished. That alone is huge.
That doesn't mean it is a defense, you can't use it to protect yourself when someone is on you, thus, not a defense, I guess you can consider it a defense for the sake of not getting in the fight in the first place, but you can't use it once they are on you.
The thigh guy3 votesImmobile squishy with no defensive utility. Damage is litteraly all this champion has.
Cloud2732 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v4svYqEE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-16T00:30:04.304+0000)
Immobile squishy with no defensive utility. Damage is litteraly all this champion has.
I would call stealth a pretty good defense, and he does have an aoe slow so he gets good utility from that.
SwiftKitten881 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v4svYqEE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-16T00:30:04.304+0000)
Immobile squishy with no defensive utility. Damage is litteraly all this champion has.
stealth is a form of mobility...,, granted it not as defensive as it USED to be because of the stupid radius they gave it
but being able to move around the map unseen let alone at a bonus movement speed he gets with it... doesn't make him immobile
Cloud2731 votesstealth is a form of mobility...,, granted it not as defensive as it USED to be because of the stupid radius they gave it
but being able to move around the map unseen let alone at a bonus movement speed he gets with it... doesn't make him immobile
Yea what that guy said is an outright lie.
meowwow71 votesthey call anything with any ms boost or dash mobile on boards and that's what his camo gives him before he pops out of it ms
Elite4Runner2 votesI don't know what you mean by " he's also able to move freely while doing so." Are you saying he can attack and move simultaneously like Lucian's Culling or Urgot's Purge. ... because. .. I don't play Twitch often, but I'm pretty sure that isn't true, or it wasn't the last time I played him. He still has to stop moving to attack. Also, he is only gaining 300 bonus range, giving him a total of 850. That is a long range, but if you're talking about attacking the back line, that means he probably has a front line much closer than that.
Most of the time Twitch is going to open up straight out of his Ambush for the bonus attack speed. That means his "mobility" is no longer on the table.
He must rely on his positioning and his teammates to protect him if he isn't able to just melt the enemy front line.
He has no self peel and his ultimate only lasts for 5 seconds. One or two forms of hard CC will cut into that time significantly and if the enemy team focuses on him during that time, he's just dead.
Cloud2731 votesI don't know what you mean by " he's also able to move freely while doing so." Are you saying he can attack and move simultaneously like Lucian's Culling or Urgot's Purge. ... because. .. I don't play Twitch often, but I'm pretty sure that isn't true, or it wasn't the last time I played him. He still has to stop moving to attack. Also, he is only gaining 300 bonus range, giving him a total of 850. That is a long range, but if you're talking about attacking the back line, that means he probably has a front line much closer than that.
Most of the time Twitch is going to open up straight out of his Ambush for the bonus attack speed. That means his "mobility" is no longer on the table.
He must rely on his positioning and his teammates to protect him if he isn't able to just melt the enemy front line.
He has no self peel and his ultimate only lasts for 5 seconds. One or two forms of hard CC will cut into that time significantly and if the enemy team focuses on him during that time, he's just dead.
I will elaborate. Yes he's completely mobile throughout the duration of his ult. He can move around, change the direction he's firing in, and even if he's interrupted (cc'd) it doesn't end his ult. Lucian can't change the direction he's firing in during his ult, and if you interrupt him the ult will end and he eats the full cooldown. And it doesn't really matter what he does "most of the time" btw.
Elite4Runner2 votes... okay, ..
I feel like we are getting off topic here.
You do acknowledge that he has some pretty glaring weaknesses, do you not?
Cloud2731 votes... okay, ..
I feel like we are getting off topic here.
You do acknowledge that he has some pretty glaring weaknesses, do you not?
If you're referring to my comment about Lucian, you're the one who brought him up in the first place, and in a thread about an adc I really don't think comparing him to other adc's is that "off topic". And yea he obviously has weaknesses, but they're the same ones as almost every adc in this game.
Elite4Runner2 votesNo, I wasn't referring to your comment about Lucian.
See, I think maybe you did get off topic.
Your thread is about "Why is Twitch allowed to exist?"
And yea he obviously has weaknesses, but they're the same ones as almost every adc in this game.
That's why.
[slayer-jinx-wink]