Comprehensive list of CertainlyT champions who have not been balancing nightmares at any point.

1 800 GGTOOEZ··105 votes·7,098 views

Here is the list:

289 Comments

BobaFlautist79 votes

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Mordepool3 votes

{quoted}

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Morgana?

Automated Riven11 votes

{quoted}

Morgana?

Nope, pretty sure early season 3 she was pick/ban as a support until she saw Nerfs.

greekvandaL29 votes

{quoted}

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Nami Karthus

BobaFlautist7 votes

I can't name when off the top of my head, but there was definitely a time when Nami was the support in competitive play. Her W was overtuned as shit, and she won lane by pressing it on cooldown.

Karthus...I vaguely remember his W being nerfed to a decaying slow because of how hard it made dodging Qs, and without even looking I assume his ult had its CD nerfed at some point, because it's the type of ability that Old Riot liked to give a normal cooldown. But you're definitely right that it's been a very long time.

Zone of Endless6 votes

{quoted}

I can't name when off the top of my head, but there was definitely a time when Nami was the support in competitive play. Her W was overtuned as shit, and she won lane by pressing it on cooldown.

Karthus...I vaguely remember his W being nerfed to a decaying slow because of how hard it made dodging Qs, and without even looking I assume his ult had its CD nerfed at some point, because it's the type of ability that Old Riot liked to give a normal cooldown. But you're definitely right that it's been a very long time.

All Nami ever received were buffs since release. She might've him been constantly picked in competitive play, but that doesn't mean it was because she's OP. There was always a way to fight her. Her mana cost on W is insane so you could never just won lane using it every time it's off cd.

Sire Hippington18 votes

you're not around since the early days i guess... karthus certainlly IS an problematic champ then allowed to be strong, and by god there were times in which he was strong...I really hope they never buff him

Nami is kinda fine, she had ohases where she dominated the support meta, but she never was really broken in a way that wasn't easily fixed with some numbers tweaking

Rysophage7 votes

Trundle? He's been good here and there but no one really complains much. He's pretty fair tbh. Also Orianna? Never been super bad never been op. Yet a staple in competitive play. Maybe thresh too.

BobaFlautist42 votes

There was a point in the game (shortly after his update maybe?) where level 6 trundle would press R and kill you under tower, after which the lane was over.

Ori is...I hate Ori, so I can't be fair here. Maybe right before the passive nerf?

And thresh took the title of "Most Hated Support" from Blitzcrank at release (and beat him up, and still his lunch money), and kept it through like a million nerfs.

Edit: and if you consider being a weak, unplayed, outdated piece of shit a "Serious balance issue", trundle's been there too.

Guojonjaich4 votes

Thresh is balanced. [poppy-wink]

BobaFlautist19 votes

Thresh might be balanced now, I honestly have no idea. On release? Not even close.

sir d wreck2 votes

Due to his high utility and low damage he feels fair to play against, similar to how Janna flies under the radar. Like if you get hooked usually it's your own fault. He's balanced because his kit is almost pure utility with very little damage so people tend to not complain because if they get hooked they feel that it was their own fault. You can nerf his damage as much as you want, but his kit will still work even with 0 damage.

THE RlVER KlNG14 votes

“Thresh does no damage”

scaling damage passive, damage passive on e, huge base damage on ult, etc

Guojonjaich5 votes

Yeah. Trust me thresh isn't balanced. Played him to master 200 lp basically only playing him. He's fucking stupid if you know what you're doing.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Sion

BobaFlautist14 votes

O.G. Sion was a huge fucking mess, but I'm gonna be generous and treat that as a separate champion.

Reworked Sion was "Roar of the Slayer, the manaless wave-clear poke mage" on release.

1 800 GGTOOEZ16 votes

There's a difference between "overpowered" and "balancing nightmare." The latter indicates that a champion has so many potential issues, that it is often difficult to come up with a nerf that will make them feel more fair to play against while not making them too weak

BobaFlautist4 votes

That's why I settled on the middle ground of "Serious balance issue"

The vast majority of champions have experienced dramatic changes to their kit since release, having at some point been deemed "Problematic", or at least "boring".

I hate playing against CertainlyT champions as much as the next guy, but don't pretend he's the only designer to ever create an unfair champion.

As far as I'm concerned, his ideas are great. He just needs to be edited more. And that's not hos job, telling people how to limit his own work. Don't blame an author for inconsistent quality, blame the people that processed and published his work without further tuning.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Braum

BobaFlautist5 votes

Release Braum was the epitome of a peel support, that was designed to unfailingly protect even the squishiest of adcs from the worst threats out there.

That he was a poke-heavy lane bully that played farther up than Leona starting level 2, Did Not Know How To Die, and could 1v1 most mages and bruisers on a tank support's budget (that is, prior to Riot finding ways to increase support gold) was a complete surprise. He got soooo many nerfs shortly after release.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

Release Braum was the epitome of a peel support, that was designed to unfailingly protect even the squishiest of adcs from the worst threats out there.

That he was a poke-heavy lane bully that played farther up than Leona starting level 2, Did Not Know How To Die, and could 1v1 most mages and bruisers on a tank support's budget (that is, prior to Riot finding ways to increase support gold) was a complete surprise. He got soooo many nerfs shortly after release.

Braum only had slightly too high Q damage value at release, not even close to "serious balance issue" (and it showed when he was perfectly good after adjusting Q numbers) And that was the most "broken" state he ever was. The Unbreakable shield was seen as a super strong ability, but soon proven to be fairly baalnced in overall Braum kit

BobaFlautist5 votes

Nerfed three times right after release, nerfs hit everything in his kit. Q and Passive nerfs took 50 damage out of his kit level 1 alone.

V4.13 Concussive Blows.png Concussive Blows Base damage changed to 40 - 176 (based on level) from 50 - 254 (based on level). Stand Behind Me.png Stand Behind Me Mana cost increased to 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 from 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70. Glacial Fissure.png Glacial Fissure First target knock up duration reduced to 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 seconds from 1.5 at all ranks. Slow reduced to 40 / 50 / 60% from 60% at all ranks. Persisting slow duration after leaving zone reduced to 0.25 seconds from 1.5. V4.11 Concussive Blows.png Concussive Blows Stack debuff duration reduced to 4 seconds from 5. Base damage changed to 50 - 254 (based on level) from 70 - 240 (based on level). Stand Behind Me.png Stand Behind Me Bug Fix: Fixed a bug where, when Braum tried to jump over a wall to a teammate with an enemy nearby, he would try to protect his teammate by facing the enemy but would then smack his butt into the wall and not actually jump over to safety. New Effect: Now jumps more intelligently. V4.9 Stats Base attack damage reduced to 50 from 53. Concussive Blows.png Concussive Blows Bug Fix: No longer stuns targets with a spell shield active. Winter's Bite.png Winter's Bite Base damage reduced to 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 from 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260. Stand Behind Me.png Stand Behind Me Base armor gain reduced to 15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25 from 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5 / 30. Bonus armor ratio gain reduced to 10 / 11.5 / 13 / 14.5 / 16% bonus armor from 14 / 15.5 / 17 / 18.5 / 20% bonus armor. Base magic resistance gain reduced to 15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25 from 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5 / 30. Bonus magic resistance ratio gain reduced to 10 / 11.5 / 13 / 14.5 / 16% bonus magic resistance from 14 / 15.5 / 17 / 18.5 / 20% bonus magic resistance. Unbreakable.png Unbreakable Bug Fix: Cleaned up a few cases where certain effects could bypass the active barrier.

Bisaknosp8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v3lhfr8F,comment-id=00030005,timestamp=2018-01-31T21:43:20.367+0000)

Braum

lol at his release he could solo the adc

Carnicore8 votes

Braum was ludicrously overpowered on release.

Nymzo4 votes

{quoted}

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Bard

Karfuss2 votes

{quoted}

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Amumu Annie Bard Braum Cassiopeia DrMundo Elise Fiddlesticks Garen Karthus Kayle Kennen Lissandra Malphite Nautilus Olaf Orianna Rammus Rakan Renekton Rumble Skarner Taliyah Teemo Trundle TwistedFate Velkoz Viktor Volibear Xerath ZacWarwick

None of them ever represented a serious balance issue (i.e. champion that cannot be balanced without rework), and if they were an issue, it was a numbers tweak here and there. Same cannot be said for;

Darius Yasuo Zyra Zoe Kalista

One thing they all have in common.

Edit: When we misconstrue what serious balance issue means and strawman, then yes, some champs don't belong on this list. Except it was never a list of 'champions that have always been balanced.' It's a list of champions that have never needed a rework because they're a serious balance issue, thus not a serious balance issue.

Board mob getting rather silly now.

doodlebob66616 votes

why would you put Zac on that list he was 100% pick ban for a long time last season, alot of the other champs you had their were also pretty op for a while, or where/are so bad that they became an issue because they just were not existant

Karfuss1 votes

{quoted}

why would you put Zac on that list he was 100% pick ban for a long time last season, alot of the other champs you had their were also pretty op for a while, or where/are so bad that they became an issue because they just were not existant

Because Zac wasn't a problem until his gameplay update. Release Zac was as balanced as anything, pretty harmless.

Not one champion in that list wasn't addressed by a simple number tweak, they may have been strong and they may have been weak, but nevertheless balanced easily (and therefore not a serious balance problem). Half of them, like Zac, received a gameplay update because they were so balanced and stale.

None of them ever represented the issue all of CertainlyT's champions do. They're either useless or completely obnoxious, only Zyra was ever saved from that. She needed a game play update that changed her role, because a pseudo-burst utility harass mage with a ranged Kog'maw passive going bot lane wasn't good for the meta. Zyra was the OG mid mage going support.

Salron15 votes

{quoted}

Because Zac wasn't a problem until his gameplay update. Release Zac was as balanced as anything, pretty harmless.

Holy shit please Please just stop You clearly did not play league back then https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PrYIIQyeTMg/hqdefault.jpg

Karfuss2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v3lhfr8F,comment-id=00030007000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T23:02:49.066+0000)

Holy shit please Please just stop You clearly did not play league back then https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PrYIIQyeTMg/hqdefault.jpg

Release Zac, along with Sejuanni at the time, was widely considered the most balanced tank in the game.

He was only ever broken after his rework. Two very different champions.

But I do love how Zac is the only issue on that entire list, and beside the point entirely: champions that were number tapped for years after their release and thus never a serious balance problem (i.e. champions that can't be balanced without a rework).

Akali is SO HOT10 votes

Release Zac was capable of solo laning against an ADC and Support. That was by no means balanced lol

Carnicore5 votes

Zac was overpowered as hell on release, then nerfed to the gutter for many months.

TricolorStar8 votes

Bard Bard Bard

Ariel the Cruel17 votes

{quoted}

Comprehensive list of League of Legends Champions that have never been a serious balance issue:

Velkoz ?

RainbowIcee9 votes

always the right answer when this pops up.

Velzard of Koz2 votes

And always either not present or so below in comments it's hardly noticed. Poor squid, nobody cares for him.

BobaFlautist10 votes

Fine, fine, I'll play ball.

Wasn't Vel support an obnoxiously strong pick for a while? I remember on release (or like maybe right after release, with some buffs) his base damages were so high, and his scaling so low, he kinda ended up playing like a 1k range brand support or Zyra support. Sure, his stun is harder to land, but he'd shred teamfights on 0 gold.

And besides, Vel'koz is one of the like 3 S tier mid picks for doombots. Completely broken in that mode.

Ale non è male3 votes

{quoted}

Fine, fine, I'll play ball.

Wasn't Vel support an obnoxiously strong pick for a while? I remember on release (or like maybe right after release, with some buffs) his base damages were so high, and his scaling so low, he kinda ended up playing like a 1k range brand support or Zyra support. Sure, his stun is harder to land, but he'd shred teamfights on 0 gold.

You are right my friend Vel'Koz had broken numbers on release, but people just didn't recognize it because he had such a unique kit that people had to learn how to play him before exploiting his full potential. (it is just unfair to pick him as answer) They used the major mage update in mid season 6 (6.9 patch) to gut him by removing his abiliy to process its passive damage through ulti since he was becoming too obnoxious with his ult , and they exaggerated so much that he became a serious balance issue in negative that they had to put that mechanic back in emergency, gated with some CD, during 6.11 patch despite the 6.10 damage buff

MuffledGarbage2 votes

Alistar hasn't really been a serious balance issue...

Taliyah too...

Varus only time he was a balance issue was with lethality... and the fault of that problem lied with 95% lethality, 5% Varus

BobaFlautist8 votes

I'm pretty sure Varus had a substantial Q or E nerf long before lethality even existed. No promises though.

Taliyah - do you not remember the "Delete the wave with Q from level 1" issue? Hell, she still deletes back row minions. Heavily featured in pro play.

And alistar, oh boy, alistar....his ult used to give way more damage reduction and give massive tenacity, his W used to be able to buffer an auto (leading to a Trinity Alistar Top), and long ago (before even my time) alistar jungle was the most bullshit thing in the game.

It Hertz When IP7 votes

Velkoz Kled Anivia

Only ones I can think of, and Vel's the only 100% confidence entry. I don't REMEMBER any major issues with Kled or Anivia.

RainbowIcee4 votes

anivia got nerfed though, look how the current ult and E work atm. Before the E proc'd on any of her attacks and the ult spawned at a much bigger size than what it does now but it didn't grow. I think now it grows bigger than it used to be or to the original size i need confirmation. But yeh, anivia has been nerfed kit wise which is kind of the biggest type of nerf.

It Hertz When IP4 votes

Forgot about freezy bird's ult change. Though, it wasn't really that OP of an ability. I think the only reason she got the change was because of the MYMU, which is when they also dicked with Vel'koz for no readily explicable reason.

Hashihime47 votes

Warwick Rework

kaironen29 votes

Tbh, warwick has been and still is slightly overtuned ever since the rework. It might be slight but it's still overtuned. I think the rework was a success and I don't think he is a balance nightmare but I can't say he has always been completely balanced.

AirKingNeo4 votes

then why does no one fucking pick Warwick if he's overtunned?

MysterQ8 votes

He has been banned or picked in almost all of the my silver games these past two weeks. Super annoying since I main him.

AirKingNeo4 votes

That's your issue. Silver tier isn't relevant nor should be to the overall balance of a game, let alone a competitive game.

MysterQ21 votes

Nah, see you are wrong. Silver is completely relevant because more than 50% of the players are around this tier.

I love LCS, but don't be a jerk about it.

AirKingNeo2 votes

You can't call League a competitive game if you don't balance it around any competitive level.

Why should people suffer because people are worse at the game than them? Why would Warwick be nerfed because people aren't good at the game?

It's inherently fair to balance around high elo.

More from Gameplay

More by 1 800 GGTOOEZ