muh clarity
would you mind fucking explaining what this ability does now?
is the damage applied to her auto-attack? Does the AOE tick again on auto-attack? Does she deal more damage later in the ability? What? Seriously.
Ziovi45 votesyeah, i think their ability to explain thing clearly is just about as good as yours, considering you didn't bother explainin what are you talking about at all XD
(i know he is referring to shyvana's changes on pbe, but surely not thanks to him)
Rozzeta3 votesHave an upvote, my good sir. I was certainly confused.
Sire Hippington20 votesJust tested it on PBE, shyvana deals 25% of the W damage per AA within the W aoe. so basically, shy gets 5-20(0.05 bonus ad) magical aoe on-hit while W is active.
lDontLiftIcarry1 votes[deleted]
LankPants13 votesW's damage is significant. In the mid game it's a super high damage ability, made even stronger by the complete inefficiency of attempting to itemise defences against Shyvana. It's also one of the strongest lane pushing abilities in the game.
lDontLiftIcarry1 votes[deleted]
DeusVult6 votesshyv builds a sunfire and his level 9 with rank 5 w.
walks up to you and starts wailing on you with W on. You are gonna take a lot of damage
and 1 w can push an entire wave since it can be extended
Icestar11862 votessunfire cinderhulk
Auz the Ripper1 votesLet's compromise and go cinderfire
The Lexer1 voteseh.. I like sunhulk better
Aych Pii1 votesCinderhulk is bad on shyvana, she doesn't do enough built full tank. You want to build her with one or two early damage items into tankiness.
...but, then, I wrote this post forgetting that jungle Shyvana isn't the only Shyvana. Last I checked, though, top lane shyvana has an abysmal win rate right now, so eh.
Zair Umbras1 votesCinderhulk is wonderful on Shyv and she only needs a BotRK in her kit to be able to do damage, though it is hilarious to get BotRK+BT and be a raid boss.
Aych Pii1 votesI don't know, I tend not to like one damage item into tank builds. On jungle Shyvana I get Devourer into BotRK and then build tanky, on lane Shyvana I might swap the devourer for a hydra or BC depending on how fed I am and whether I need to split push.
Zair Umbras1 votesEh. I prefer to go with Cinderhulk. Get that and a Warmogs and you won't need to worry about too much defense. You can usually ignore building MR if you got the scaling glyphs and simply pressing R. Get a BotRK and Hydra for damage and sustain, then Warmogs and Thornmail. You'll have about 3.5kish health, huge AoE damage, innate tankiness from R, and lots of sustain between the Hydra and BotRK. Devorourer just never felt all that great when you can just switch out a defensive item for a Cinderhulk and replace the devourer with a damage item.
Aych Pii1 votesI really like the AS from devourer to proc BotRK and the mark on her E. Without it, my only option to get that AS would be Wit's end, and, well, I don't really want to buy a wit's end.
I see what you're saying, though, I might consider using that build if my team lacked a tank.
Xeynid6 votesShyvana's W has 560 Base Damage at level 5. That's a little bit fucking insanely high.
lDontLiftIcarry1 votesW is used for wave clear/jungle clear.
It just so happens maxing it is the only option considering the other 2 are weaker by far in an extended fight. If you didn't notice its her only actual damage her E base and cd don't justifiy it. her Q base and cd don't justify it.
So yeah it has to have high base. and you realize that its only active for a few seconds unless you're auto attacking something to extend it. Thus making it a "gap" closer thats only good if you're near someone so you have to ult. Thus expending your real gap closer....anyway.... I'm not gonna aruge.' I already said what I had to say about shyvana and how I play her and what makes her good or bad. Not gonna sit here and argue about some bullshit with randoms about what they think about a champion they dont have a high winrate on or dont even play.
Looking at numbers doesn't tell you anything other than numbers. I only said my winrate to prove I have games on her, nothing more. Meaning I have experience, thats it. Don't care what you people do with numbers. Personally means nothing to me other than I'm competent with how I use her.
Playing the champion is what tells you whats going to go on. And from playing shyvana she does need help jungle wise considering other champions in her area of jungle expertise are better. A farming jungler that has good clear and decent mid game I'd probably go for olaf more than shyvana. He even has sustain that lets me just press W and continue clearing camps after a gank even when im only like 5% hp and literally no mana for axe.. becase his passive + w being used is a large amount of on hit sustain despite only lasting 6 seconds AND only being rank 1.
Can't do that with shyvana unless I have items or potions or fed. Thus she's not as strong a farmer as others with sustain.
Initation? Theres way more picks.. I wont even get into that... Damage? Yeah she's got a good dueling potentional.. but trundle is the strongest duelist in the game and If I was gonna pick someone who gets kited and is anti tank/has good carry potentional in sitatuions I'd go trundle every day every time. Espically when they're running a tank bot lane support.
I don't want to argue anyway.. done typing so...
Her lanephase has always been fine because as I said, she's AD singed. You can't really make singed OP since he's kiteable as fuck without giving him his tenacity on his R back. Thus it doesn't matter. Same with shyvana. Kiteable as fuck.
End of discussion, not returning to reply. peace.
Xeynid3 votesThe point was "W has insane base damage, so you should be using it for damage."
Which you haven't disagreed with.
Don't know why that required a wall of text and a bunch of assumptions about how much I play Shyvana.
Profirix1 votesYou are definitely right about her gap close being a trade off for damage. And it doesnt help that there is absolutely NO reason to level q or e first since cd and damage is not significantly affected especially in the jungle.
Aych Pii1 votesYou pick Shyvana for versatility. She's an excellent duelist and split pusher, she can have high damage or tankiness depending on build path and still be effective, she can initiate and peel in a pinch, and it's practically impossible to efficiently itemize defenses against her. And she's not terribly kiteable with Stalker's + BotRK. Yeah, most of the things she does can be done better by other champions, but she's got an unusually long list of things she does well enough at.
chumbler1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aych Pii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v2MNEBNe,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000002,timestamp=2015-06-03T04:56:06.754+0000)
You pick Shyvana for versatility. She's an excellent duelist and split pusher, she can have high damage or tankiness depending on build path and still be effective, she can initiate and peel in a pinch, and it's practically impossible to efficiently itemize defenses against her. And she's not terribly kiteable with Stalker's + BotRK. Yeah, most of the things she does can be done better by other champions, but she's got an unusually long list of things she does well enough at.
You might want to check the definition of versatility again, because it does not describe Shyvana in the slightest. She does one thing: have numbers. That's literally it. That's all her kit does. That she is ever viable AT ALL is a result of numbers and a crummy defense system.
Aych Pii1 votes...You either just described damn near every champion in league of legends, or you didn't describe Shyvana in the slightest. Depending on how much you stretch the definition of some of the words you used. Could you clarify your point a bit more?
SquishyArchon1 votesW is used for wave clear/jungle clear.
It just so happens maxing it is the only option considering the other 2 are weaker by far in an extended fight. If you didn't notice its her only actual damage her E base and cd don't justifiy it. her Q base and cd don't justify it.
So yeah it has to have high base. and you realize that its only active for a few seconds unless you're auto attacking something to extend it. Thus making it a "gap" closer thats only good if you're near someone so you have to ult. Thus expending your real gap closer....anyway.... I'm not gonna aruge.' I already said what I had to say about shyvana and how I play her and what makes her good or bad. Not gonna sit here and argue about some bullshit with randoms about what they think about a champion they dont have a high winrate on or dont even play.
Looking at numbers doesn't tell you anything other than numbers. I only said my winrate to prove I have games on her, nothing more. Meaning I have experience, thats it. Don't care what you people do with numbers. Personally means nothing to me other than I'm competent with how I use her.
Playing the champion is what tells you whats going to go on. And from playing shyvana she does need help jungle wise considering other champions in her area of jungle expertise are better. A farming jungler that has good clear and decent mid game I'd probably go for olaf more than shyvana. He even has sustain that lets me just press W and continue clearing camps after a gank even when im only like 5% hp and literally no mana for axe.. becase his passive + w being used is a large amount of on hit sustain despite only lasting 6 seconds AND only being rank 1.
Can't do that with shyvana unless I have items or potions or fed. Thus she's not as strong a farmer as others with sustain.
Initation? Theres way more picks.. I wont even get into that... Damage? Yeah she's got a good dueling potentional.. but trundle is the strongest duelist in the game and If I was gonna pick someone who gets kited and is anti tank/has good carry potentional in sitatuions I'd go trundle every day every time. Espically when they're running a tank bot lane support.
I don't want to argue anyway.. done typing so...
Her lanephase has always been fine because as I said, she's AD singed. You can't really make singed OP since he's kiteable as fuck without giving him his tenacity on his R back. Thus it doesn't matter. Same with shyvana. Kiteable as fuck.
End of discussion, not returning to reply. peace.
wow you're bad lol
SpecterVonBaren2 votesLet me put it to you this way. Until he gets a significant amount of AP, Shyv's w deals more damage than Rumble's q, and this is even if Rumble has 50% heat.
WillHealForHonor1 votesso ap shyv a thing now.....??
FirstSergeantBim4 votesShy's W scales with Bonus AD, her only AP scaling is through her E and R. These changes won't make anyone want to play AP Shyvana.
Siachi9 votesJust for those confused, this thread is referring to a Shyvana buff on the PBE, because OP didn't bother to explain a bloody thing about who the buff was for, or even WHAT was buffed
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/06/61-pbe-update.html#more
Shyvana Burnout (W) new effect added: "25% of this damage is applied again when Shyvana basic attacks an enemy with Burnout active."
Marthian2 votesAnd honestly, that's very straightforward. Can't see why there'd be any confusion.
FirstSergeantBim1 votesStraightforward? I don't know about that man. What part of her W's damage? 25% of one tick? 25% of the maximum damage? 25% of the damage that has already been done by W? Where will the damage versus Monsters be modified? From the initial 20% increase or will it be given an additional 20% increase?
I can't see how anyone wouldn't find their explanation completely underwhelming and incredibly obscure.
Zair Umbras1 votesIt does 25% of the tick. Her ability does not state its full damage, so that shouldn't be very hard to understand. When you read the new ability on Surrender At 20, it's a bit clearer.
As for the boosted damage, since her AA's proc a tick that does a 4th of the damage, I'd guess it does the 20% boosted damage. It states it does 25% of 'this' damage after stating it did 20(Bonus AD ratio) etc. etc., so it'll do 20% more meaning it'd do 30% of the initial damage, making her camp clearing better.
The buff itself is a bit underwhelming since the damage is only scary when thought of over 5 seconds. It does 20-80 damage per sec for up to 7s, which is why it does so much. AA's will do 5-20 damage plus .05 Bonus AD. It'll make her AoE stronger, but overall it's more or less just a small team fighting buff and clear speed buff.
FirstSergeantBim1 votesYes, I'm sure that's how it works. I was only playing devil's advocate.
However, I think it means a little more than you give credit. With another AA mechanic added to her kit, she will likely be interested in a few more items and those items might help shore up some of her weaknesses quite well. I assume the additional damage on her W will proc spell vamp.
with 
would pair up quite well. Even 
seems a little more useful.
I think the real advantage of choosing champions like Shyvana or Garen is that they can out-sustain and out-maneuver mana-based champions to a significant degree. They are strong objective-based assets and not necessarily geared towards team engagements. Garen has his passive for sustain and his silence to keep him relevant in team-based engagements, but Shyvana lacks both sustain and CC mechanics in her kit which puts her in an awkward position.
There are plenty of items that can bring sustain and CC, but most people don't want to build anything other than BotRK or maybe RH on her right now. The new changes should open up her itemization options and I think that is a really big deal. This game really started getting good when Riot decided to fix itemization, but their changes didn't necessarily directly affect items. A lot of them have altered how champions can synergize with items differently. Urgot, Ryze and Ashe are all great examples. I would expect to see the same out of Shy from future changes.
Zair Umbras1 votesWow... really... Proc vamp... It's an AoE. AoE does 1/3rd of the vamp. If you have 20% from a gunblade, you're only putting to use about 7% of it. 7% of that damage. It won't be noticed and the AP will be nearly wasted since her E and R doesn't have much scalings with AP and they're her only scalings. A Rageblade is even worse since she has to get low and getting low isn't your goal as Shyv and the AS steroid on it is only 32% after you have all 8 stacks. It's simply useless.
As Shyv, you need tankiness and AD. If you substitute AD for AS and USELESS AP, then you're wasting stats COMPLETELY. For even more damage and actual useful stats, you can get a Zephyr, TrinityPhreak, or even a Wit's End. Shyv works best with either big AD items or big AS items or a mix of both. She doesn't do well with useless stats like Spell Vamp or AP.
FirstSergeantBim1 votesExcellent, thank you for helping me make my point. It is obvious that AD and AS are Shy's only relevant stats right now. I even spoke to that effect in my previous post. Why don't you take the time to understand my argument before you tell me what I already know.
Now, can you tell me where Shy could proc the full spell vamp? I can think of two places: the E on-hit and the W on-hit. She would have a total of 20% lifesteal and 20% spell vamp from both BotRK and Hextech (even more potent with SV and Second Wind). Adding all of the ambient sustain that those two items could provide to Shy, (with potential new changes) surely it could become worthwhile. It all just depends on what Riot is really trying to do with future changes to Shy.
Zair Umbras1 votesThe E does almost ignorable damage and the on-hit damage is on-hit, so it doesn't proc the spell vamp at all, which means the only thing proc'ing the spell vamp is the W and it's almost ignorable since it does a max of 560, but it's AoE, so it does 1/3rd of the 20%, which is about 7% (6.6666666666...%) so it'd heal for less than 50 during the entire duration with 20% vamp per target. That's pretty pathetic to say the least.
Even with the 25% of the damage proc'ing, it wouldn't be enough to make vamp worth using at all since that's a max of 20 damage plus 5% of bonus AD. If it proc'd full vamp, that's 4 health... 4 health per AA... Like.. That's useless. You can get a Zephyr or even a Wit's End and heal for more with just your AA's and a BotRK than you could heal with 20% spell vamp because all of her abilities are AoE and AoE plus Vamp is near useless unless you're Morde.
ImAHeroForFun4 votesnobody knows who youre talking about
Reikken1 votesPBE
Icestar11862 votesWho, not where.
WeFlyNoLie4 votesIronic post is ironic.
Had I not already read the PBE notes, I wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about, which almost defeats the purpose of the topic.
BodyByDave3 votesIs Q going to apply this twice?
R1101 votesYep.
Extreme Troller1 votesi think riot have blizzard gamedesigner lol. they are as much obscure as them.
Earl Eulrich7 votesunfortunatelly they don´t have blizzard writers aswell *cough*
Drukyul2 votesthey do
Zair Umbras1 votesExcept Riot doesn't release patch notes for the PBE. Datamining sites are the ones who have worded it like this, not Riot.
If you actually read the ability, which surrender@20 has a picture of, you can understand it pretty clearly. It says the damage is of the damage mentioned.
Praetor Don1 votesIt's a completely unnecessary buff. Shyv is strong enough.
chumbler1 votes[{quoted}](name=Praetor Don,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v2MNEBNe,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-06-03T02:03:45.099+0000)
It's a completely unnecessary buff. Shyv is strong enough.
Even if she needed a buff, this one is still ridiculously stupid.
