If everyone were Cooldown based with no resource constraints, would that be good? Bad? Other?

Strawberrycocoa·Jan 8, 2016·4 votes·961 views

I'm one of those players who gets really frustrated when playing a Mana user against champions that don't have to concern themselves with the limitation of a mana pool. I also feel like cooldown windows are an effective method of constraint as is, without completely disabling player's options the way going OOM will.

Mana as a resource is an archaic system by this point, and I think the state of League has moved beyond it.

So, I dunno, what do you all think? If League went fully resourceless and relied on cooldowns to constrain champion damage and create vulnerability windows, would that be better? Worse?

inb4 RIP ;P

22 Comments

Raise DongrsJan 8, 20164 votes

Well, I think it would be awful. Because then every champ is the same, builds the same items, plays the same way, and it removes all gameplay creativity that League thrives on. So yeah, constructively speaking, that's the worst idea I've seen all day :D

Lovely PantsJan 8, 20161 votes

Hardly to this extreme. Champions are always balanced somewhat arbitrarily around items in any case in that whatever stats they buy are translated by their abilities into a variety of benefits. Nautilus isn't Brand though they both use mana as a resource.

The one thing a mana pool is beneficial for is allowing more differentiation in how frequently champions are allowed to apply significant magnitudes of impact with their abilities. I wouldn't say that the current mana system even does this successfully with every champion that uses it, of course. There are a good number of champions that I would say are made much easier to work with through this benefit, though.

You could probably eliminate mana entirely by relying more on something like a system of ability charges for more champions, but I couldn't say off the top of my head if that would really be a more elegant solution.

Raise DongrsJan 8, 20162 votes

I feel like it would be an unreasonable, play-slimming idea. Let's take a look at all the items that would be useless or hindered to a large extent:

item 3301 item 3003 item 3504 item 3174 item 3010 item 3028 item 1056 item 1402 item 3508 item 1004 item 3114 item 3092 item 3098 item 3110 item 3024 item 3025 item 3100 item 3004 item 3222 item 3165 item 3042 item 3096 item 3027 item 1027 item 3040 item 3057 item 3303 item 3070 item 3078 item 3050

Not to mention, you've just taken out the most pivotal part of strategizing your build and playing to your strengths everyone would buy nothing but CDR Everyone would have 40% CDR every game With no strategic diversity I'd say it is that extreme

Lovely PantsJan 8, 20161 votes

I don't think anyone would reasonably expect anything less than a complete item overhaul if mana was removed from the system. Personally I don't think it would ever be a viable plan for Riot to enact for unclear gains, but that's an aside from gameplay relevance.

I'm going to make a small argument on semantics related to your first statement, just to be operating on a similar kind of wavelength:

Gameplay creativity isn't necessarily at risk with such a change. When you are essentially building something to have the exact same effect, that has nothing to do with gameplay.

What you are risking is more along the lines of a sense of immersive creativity. It's more a sense of aesthetic differentiation and propriety; something like choosing the car with flame decals painted on it because you want to go fast.

Raise DongrsJan 8, 20162 votes

Did someone say...

Rammus Rammus Rammus . . . . . . Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . . . . . . Rammus Rammus . . . . Rammus Rammus Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . Rammus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rammus Rammus Rammus . . . . . Rammus Rammus Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . . . Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . . . . Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . . . . . . . . . Rammus . . . . . . . . Rammus Rammus . . . . . . . . . Rammus

StrawberrycocoaJan 9, 20162 votes

I mean, the same items are built each game for the most part as-is. You'll always get boots and usually the same type of boot, mana using AP will always get Rabbadons and mana regen.

But there's still plenty of space without mana items in play for item diversity and tactful decisions based on counters.

PartholonianJan 8, 20164 votes

I think there's a big difference between Garen being able to use all his spells whenever he wants and Xerath being able to use all his spells whenever he wants. Mana is a necessary limitation on some kits which would have to be changed or removed if there was no such thing.

Stiv1234Jan 8, 20163 votes

Anivia Cassiopeia Karthus Kassadin Swain Galio like this idea.

AhristocatsJan 8, 20162 votes

KogMaw i'm ready

DrNovaJan 8, 20162 votes

Bad idea.

Many champs have abilities gated by resources that if it was just CD's they would have to be super long simply because the spell is so powerful or has such high utility

BonipherusJan 8, 20161 votes

Bad. Look at Dawngate.

StrawberrycocoaJan 9, 20161 votes

Dawngate was amazing, what didn't you like about it? The lack of mana was one of my favorite features, it meant there was never a point when you couldn't contribute to a fight.

BonipherusJan 10, 20161 votes

Dawngate had a lot of good things. The complete resourcelessness turned the laning phase into a spam fest with little recourse other than some cooldowns. This was a really common complaint from players. Resources are a good thing and add meaningful depth to the game.

StrawberrycocoaJan 11, 20161 votes

I heard a lot of compliments from other Dawngate players on the resourcelessness, generally along the lines of "it made the game more fun to not have to micromanage a resource, and I always had my abilities ready to go for teamfights/ganks/etc."

With no mana to deal with, it became important to attack during cooldown vulnerability windows, it made dodging skillshots more important because there was no chance of the aggressive enemy running out of resources to capitalize on your vulnerability.

I just find that cooldowns are a sufficient method of gating ability spam and creating player vulnerability windows. Double-gating it with mana, in an environment where mana is not a UNIVERSAL resource, is unnecessary for achieving it's purpose and crippling to the mana user.

AkeneroJan 8, 20161 votes

looks at singed

WoodakoodashoodaJan 8, 20161 votes

Fizz I don't need flash in any game ever again? Lemme at 'em!

kile147Jan 8, 20161 votes

I think it could be made to work, but it would take a lot of effort and it would probably be easier to balance mana as we have it now. It would be nicer if all champs were designed to have at least some threat even when oom, but as of now champs like Malzahar who has very high mans costs become literally useless when oom.

HoboMcJoeJan 9, 20161 votes

Bad idea. It makes champs too bland and similar, removes core functions of many items, and makes blue buff useless.

AL000Jan 9, 20161 votes

have you tried URF

mana is existed for burst damage or empower or benefits for you/ other or whatever...

TheI3igDaddyJan 9, 20161 votes

Uh, some champs do need to be gated by mana, otherwise their kits would be fucking stupid strong.

Have you not played URF or something? Quite a few champions in that mode, Sona and Hecarim to name two, got a whole lot dumber once their mana was gone.

StrawberrycocoaJan 9, 20161 votes

URF is a really bad example.

1, it is not a standard mode of play and was not built to be, it was built to be a diversionary "just for fun" silly queue. It's not balanced, and shouldn't be discussed as if it is. It's a goof-off mode.

2, the 80% CDR has a LOT more to do with how strong they were in URF than the lack of mana. The lack of mana was a good thing as it kept them in the fight. The 80% CDR is broke and silly, but URF is broke and silly, that's the appeal.