I hate how Zed can just dump on you, then blink away and stroll back to base while his ult timebombs you to death. I'd love to see him need to commit fully for the kill by staying inside a very close range in order to detonate it instead of just pulling a Fire and Forget by dumping his full kit out then running away.
Something something Risk/Reward.
MasterPrankster92 votesThis would add too much counterplay to his ult in my opinion.
There is already more counterplay to it than most ults in the game.
I think they should hit his laning phase more by making his passive only affect champions, I think that would hurt him ALOT without actually hurting his assassination which honestly out of all assassins is probably the healthiest pattern, (Not saying its completely healthy, but healthier than the other assassins by far, which is a pretty easy argument.)
His ult IS obnoxious, but that's his niche. The safe but unreliable assassin.
This is my opinion though.
IcyPepper49 votesMakes sense. Assassins excel at... assassinating, but their laning phases are supposed to suck, aren't they?
I looked at the data for Zed before, and the most popular runes are AD marks and quints. But the rune page that gets the most wins, however, is armor pen marks and quints. Probably due to his easier last-hitting with his passive, meaning he doesn't need extra AD like an adc in lower elos need to last-hit (though I bet with practice, an adc could take armor pen runes for better trades).
If his passive could only be used on champions, his last-hitting would be more difficult. Then players could choose AD runes for easier laning, or armor pen for better trades but a difficult laning phase. A fair trade-off.
Jamnon4 votes^ agree ^
Solaxo3 votesMakes sense. Assassins excel at... assassinating, but their laning phases are supposed to suck, aren't they?
Nobody said that. And I like that some champions have uncommon strengths. Makes game more varied
IcyPepper7 votesPlenty of people consider that an assassin's main weakness, like Katarina or Akali. And I didn't say anything about them being unable to assassinate, as it's their role and what they're supposed to excel at. And if you're talking about having good laning + good assassination as an uncommon strength, it's... not supposed to be. Champions are supposed to have weaknesses, and most assassins just don't have the best laning phases.
I really don't know what you're trying to get across here. People say that, champions have good laning and/or decent laning but not too much of both, and having distinct weaknesses as well as strengths make the game more varied.
Squarefighter1 votesI've heard this a lot and I've never understood it- why are assassins supposed to have a weak lane? In my experience assassins are kindof all over the place, because you have bad laners like fizz or kat, mediocre laners like yasuo or talon, and then very good laners like leblanc or zed. Why are they supposed to be bad?
IcyPepper2 votesIt really depends on the assassin (Leblanc, for instance, relies on her W for waveclear if she chooses to do so. Plus she uses mana, so she's not the strongest laner, and she's still a mage so her killing and laning aren't exactly like a pure assassin's).
It's not that they're supposed to be bad, but they're supposed to have a weakness because they excel at what they do best: killing. Mages aren't assassins, they can't always 100-0 people as effectively as an assassin, so their laning is slightly strong. It's why people gripe so much about Zed: due to his energy resource, his decent waveclear and harass, and his passive that works on minions, he's got a pretty decent laning phase compared to other assassins, but he can still assassinate squishy targets then get away with his shadows to compete with the best. That's why people don't like him, because of his lack of discernible weakness.
Fizz and Kat are examples of weak laning, Yasuo and Talon aren't the hottest either but don't have it as bad. I believe Fizz and Kat do a bit more damage as a result, but I'm not entirely sure.
But yeah, laning from what I recall is supposed to be an assassin's weakness. If you remove ignite from the equation, and assume both players play relatively safe, when does a Katarina's kill pressure kick into high gear? A Zed's? Yasuo's? Hell, even Talon but I don't really play him?
Level 6.
Their weakness is getting there, but once they do... massive powerspike.
But I'm neither balancing team nor Master Division, so don't treat my word like law. Just saying assassin's are supposed to have weaknesses beyond just cc, and it's generally laning. And I believe bruisers counter Zed.
stuartk119 votesThis would add too much counterplay to his ult in my opinion.
There is already more counterplay to it than most ults in the game.
I think they should hit his laning phase more by making his passive only affect champions, I think that would hurt him ALOT without actually hurting his assassination which honestly out of all assassins is probably the healthiest pattern, (Not saying its completely healthy, but healthier than the other assassins by far, which is a pretty easy argument.)
His ult IS obnoxious, but that's his niche. The safe but unreliable assassin.
This is my opinion though.
Why not hit his Q farming by making it only hit the first 2 units in the line (similar to Veigar's currently). It would still let him assassinate at the same, and still use his W and Q to harass his opponent, but would reduce his laning power.
AbodyHUN6661 votesThat would still hit his assasination a bit inside minion waves. Making his passive unable to hit minions sounds like a fair nerf on an ad champion.
stuartk112 votesThat would still hit his assasination a bit inside minion waves. Making his passive unable to hit minions sounds like a fair nerf on an ad champion.
It would still be able to hit through a single minion, just not a whole wave. Hitting his passive against minions doesn't solve his mass farming really that much. It would hurt it either too much, or barely at all. Making him unable to clear large amounts of a wave with a single Q would probably be a better way than your suggestion.
PoisonedPeace6 votes{quoted} unreliable assassin.
wut
LeeDark5 votes^This. Zed's problem is his ridiculous safety while farming and very short window for counterplay when he ISN'T ulting. Make it so it is harder to split-push, harder to farm under tower, and/or maybe a longer cooldown on the first rank of his W.
DeusVult18 votesHis laning phase is good, and that is a problem
but in my mind, Safe and Assassin should never be in the same sentence
especially when Riot talks about Risk vs Reward, yet Zed/LB have 0 risk involved
Divewing5 votesUpvoted cos summoner name. Also: I agree so much with what you say about the ult and lane phase, I also love the "my ult will kill you now, ima jump back and WATCH YOU DIE!".
Lastly, assassination check: healthier than Talon, FUCK YES, healthier than LB, yes, healthier than Kat, more or less same, healthier than akali, debatable (id say yes cos akali has 2 chances to fuck up and still get the kill)
Mooing Kev16 votesZed has no place in this tank meta stop asking for zed changes/nerfs. He was and always will be counterable and is not op at all. Zed's laning phase is strong cuz his assassinating sucks as the game progresses. If you saw SK vs Uol game 5 today zed was pretty much useless once adc got qss on top of the 3 tanks that are already unkillable with mid laner' zhonya. This leads to zed trying to split push where his godly wave clear comes in. If zed didn't have this wave clear he is near useless late game and can't assassinate jack shit against a proper team. Idk where all this hate for zed comes from. Fun fact, in korean pro scene he was not picked at all by the top 5 midlaners in the lck during the entire spring split. Zed is super niche pick and will never be a reliable pick such as ahri ori etc.
Dargent15 votesZed has no place in this tank meta stop asking for zed changes/nerfs. He was and always will be counterable and is not op at all. Zed's laning phase is strong cuz his assassinating sucks as the game progresses. If you saw SK vs Uol game 5 today zed was pretty much useless once adc got qss on top of the 3 tanks that are already unkillable with mid laner' zhonya. This leads to zed trying to split push where his godly wave clear comes in. If zed didn't have this wave clear he is near useless late game and can't assassinate jack shit against a proper team. Idk where all this hate for zed comes from. Fun fact, in korean pro scene he was not picked at all by the top 5 midlaners in the lck during the entire spring split. Zed is super niche pick and will never be a reliable pick such as ahri ori etc.
stop making a well thought out post backed up by facts! it's not allowed here
MetalGearTeemu11 votesstop making a well thought out post backed up by facts! it's not allowed here
what if I told you zeds aoe damage output and mobility in teamfighting put him ahead of many other mid lane options even in the tank meta.
ah who am I kidding you'll still try to defend him. death marks scaling with damage taken also makes it one of the better tank busting ults for an Mid. AP or AD.
Alëk1 voteswhat if I told you zeds aoe damage output and mobility in teamfighting put him ahead of many other mid lane options even in the tank meta.
ah who am I kidding you'll still try to defend him. death marks scaling with damage taken also makes it one of the better tank busting ults for an Mid. AP or AD.
Zeds biggest power is in his midgame. He should have completed a damage and arm pen item so tanks who arent full build still wont be able to deal with him. His waveclear has become topnotch. Late game teamfight are very hard on zed. Cc is at its strongest and defensive items have been built on all fronts. All thats left is his splitpush ability. But annie, lissandra, ahri etc. have either consistent damage output and mobility, or burst damage and engage capabilities. Zed has the ability to assassinate one squishy which can be negated by many different methods. So no, compared to late game teamfight power, splitpushing is not as reliable.
Im not saying zed is useless in teamfights, however his main role in teamfights is cleanup. Depending on the comp zed can have strong teamfghts however, that is more realistic in ranked 5s then yolo Q
AMYS GRAVE3 votesZeds biggest power is in his midgame.
Zed's winrate is lowest in the mid game. He is actually at his strongest if the game ends super early or super late.
Alëk3 votesZed's winrate is lowest in the mid game. He is actually at his strongest if the game ends super early or super late.
Winrate means nothing. Especially with champions like zed. Even if relatively fed he doesnt have the capacity to carry. Unless he's 10-1 or something stupid like that. Zed has to play safe since his damage is mostly single target. The more fed he gets the easier and faster it gets for him to assassinate. Because of that his splitpush becomes all the more terrifying.
However, back on point zeds midgane is where he has the biggest advantage on other champions unless he got rekt in lane phase. He doesnt lose his capacity to assassinate squishies at any stage in the game but his overall capacities shine in midgame since during this time he can legitimately affect teamfights with strong damage and mobility. Late game that capability decreases. Obv any zed knows that being one of the strongest splitpushers help win the game especially late game. Would honestly make sense for his winrate to be higher late game since thats when hes trying to be the most safe and zed is top tier when it comes to safety.
SouL1ess15 votesNerf his laning, not his assassination.
Azukus8 votesUm. No. You ever watch anime or any action movie? Swift cool stuff, walk away as the enemy dies. Your Morzeda idea takes that away. There's these things... called Exhaust, Barrier, Heal, Zhonyas, Quicksilver (cleanse maybe), any armor item, and crowd control.
Strawberrycocoa48 votesUm. No. You ever watch anime or any action movie? Swift cool stuff, walk away as the enemy dies. Your Morzeda idea takes that away. There's these things... called Exhaust, Barrier, Heal, Zhonyas, Quicksilver (cleanse maybe), any armor item, and crowd control.
This isn't a movie, no one is watching in reverent awe as Zed puts his shades on while the explosion detonates in the background behind him. Being able to dump your kit then flee before the enemy is finished off only to have a time bomb finish things off for you is terrible and not at all fun to have to deal with. A Zed who leaves the battle before his enemy is dead shouldn't be getting a kill, he should be cursing himself for not finishing the enemy off.
DeusVult3 votesWe could make his ult only pop if his target is isolated
JedenVojak3 votesActually I find it to be extremely awesome. The exploding as he leaves thing is what makes it cool.
Remember, cool guys don't look at explosions.
Also a tether would be stupid, just dodge his ult and you're fine.
:P
Depóngo7 votesAs a Zed main, this doesn't seem too good of an idea to force me to stick around for the Death Mark to trigger. In late game when I have enough damage I would just finish off the carry with basic stuff instead of waiting it to proc. What's the point of me having to stay next to the target when just a few basic attacks would finish him anyway? The special thing about Death Mark late game is that you can leave your opponent to die.
In my opinion, nerf some of his laning phase, like making his passive work only on champions, for example.
A Drowned Fish2 votes^
Leti the Yeti8 votesso off topic but one time 
placed a shroom by a guy in zhonyas and just walked away
I assure you everyone was watching in awe at that bm.. lmao
Rikari6 votesI hate Zed but i do not support this.
Shïren6 votesI remember a time when zeds ult shadow dropped next to his victim and he had to use his w to escape and considering how short range it is he was much less safe and had to be more secure on how and when to blow someone up. ahhh good times.
SmknWdl6 votesGuys, zed isn't that bad. I also think this idea would make his ultimate extremely easy to escape. I mean yeah he's annoying but he isn't overpowered. He's an assassin... his job is to assassinate. He also has the most badass walkaway of any champ hehe XD its like when you ignite someone and walk away but better. Anyways the only thing i might like to see is nerf his q and buff his e... this could even give him more jungling play, which i would be interested in seeing.
weeaboomer5 votesI don't see how Qss is a counter when you're left with 5 hp after his whole rotation.
ModAcademy Kayn4 votesThis seems like a good enough idea. But not to close range. Something far away enough for him to be safer, but not like 9000 miles away.
Kouga4 votesWhile I can sympathize with Zed hate, it wouldn't seem fitting with the usual rules and understanding of the game if his mark was tethered. No other marks are tethered (such as Vlad's Ultimate) so it doesn't seem consistent.
D1rtFarmer5 votesso?.. youre looking for consistency between a ninja and a vampire>?
Kouga14 votesNo I'm looking for consistency in game mechanics. Mechanics will always trump visual flavor. The more consistent rules are, the more reliably a player can use them to their advantage.
For example, we expect that all Channels can be interrupted by Silences. If Sona had a Channel ability, we would still expect it could be interrupted by a Silence, even though Sona doesn't talk, because Mechanics > Theme.
blujadajhdja4 votesI personally like old Zed. Everyone here is complaining about his safety, so why not just change his ult back to before where he appears in front of the enemy champion and a shadow is placed behind them instead of where he started. The blink back to his shadow would have a similar range to his blink to his W shadow. If you think this adds too much counterplay to his ult, then good, that's the whole point, he shouldn't have safe engage and the power to farm well. As a Zed player, I don't like the safety of his current ult.
Dwaboutit1 votesI personally like old Zed. Everyone here is complaining about his safety, so why not just change his ult back to before where he appears in front of the enemy champion and a shadow is placed behind them instead of where he started. The blink back to his shadow would have a similar range to his blink to his W shadow. If you think this adds too much counterplay to his ult, then good, that's the whole point, he shouldn't have safe engage and the power to farm well. **As a Zed player, I don't like the safety of his current ult. **
what? i too like to live dangerously...
Melledoneus2 votesYou do realize you can just throw CC and damage at where he shows up when he ults? His ult is incredibly predictable.
Kariu Rena4 votesgo watch sk vs uol game 5 you will know why zed is given a good early game and safety on his ult because his late game is absolutely garbage
Silents4294 votesUm. So he has to sit there getting beatin on by everyone on your team until 2 or 3 seconds pass?
Like I get what you are going for but forcing an assassin to literally stay there for an ult that requires him to use his full combo, and THEN he has to stay there and wait for it to go off is insane. He literally can do nothing since now he is out of energy, cooldowns are on, and he isn't tanky enough to withstand damage.
Honestly if he needs any changes its one of the following.
Reduce Q damage if it goes through a target. Reduce the range his ult will allow him to go back. Change his passive.
Honestly Zed isn't that problematic, he had his run during a time when everyone else was weak, but now that those mages are coming back into play he is falling back into a good place again.
DarthSpectrum3 votesBetter idea: allow Zed to only return to his original spot after 3 seconds and only if the target will die from the Death Mark. (as marked by a spinning Shuriken currently.)
This way, he will still be able to assassinate squishy targets but he will be punished if he botched his combo.
Forcing Zed to stay for the entire duration of Death Mark is far too much of a nerf, especially since most other assassins can already match Zed's single target damage with even faster rotations. (ie. Talon/Kat)
Spacesuit Spiff3 votesIt would make him less fun, and not really more fun to play against. Some champs play into a certain fantasy (like Riven with her manaless spamming or Leb with her jumpyness) and if they have to be nerfed, I'd rather the nerfs didn't ruin what made them fun.
skippersd3 votesMy take on Zed lane nerf:
Make his regular Q a not pass trought skillshot (like kennen's). This way he can waveclear, but only if he commits his W.
Offended3 votesWrote a long thing about champion balance, but decided to delete it and post this;
Risk vs Reward - Zed has 0 risk for a high chance of reward in LANING PHASE. Having an early game nerf with a tether and a small late game buff would be the most beneficial solution.
GaleWinUnleashed2 votesBut what about those times where your opponent can be killed with less than one auto-attack? You blow your ult on them without using any other abilities, just to let them experience that awful sense of helplessness as their last 3 seconds of life tick down.
SlushieDee5 votesPlease never let me face you in mid when you're playing Zed. Ult, leave them low, spam laugh. You're THAT kind of Zed player?
Commando Yi2 voteswhy are we complaining about assassins doing their job?
Windfallen1 votesThat's not flashy.
Strawberrycocoa4 votesmuh LCSBIGPLAYS