I'm gunna hop on the "Riot makes it harder to climb intentionally as you win more games" bandwagon

awdaf··46 votes·4,326 views

I recently just had a really long win streak, 18 games won, and 2 losses, some of those games were close, others were stomps, and others were comebacks.

This all put me at around Plat 3 45 LP, at this point, I had 17 wins over my total losses. Which means I had a higher than average MMR.

Then I lose one game, I'm like okay, I'm bound to lose one, can't win every game.

Then I lost another

And another

And another

And another

And another

And what I'm noticing is that, the people that I'm starting to get in my team, haven't played Ranked in 7 days, have terrible KDAs/Win rates on all there champions.

Poor decision making skills

Lower elo than me, for example, on my climb, most of my games were perfectly matched, mostly Plat 3s-1s against Plat 3s-1s, but when I started to lose, immediately I get duos of Gold 1s and Plat 4s that have terrible win rates together, Gold 1s/2s that are duo together and are in my game because Riot rates duos as a higher MMR

And more AFKs, the rate I saw of AFKs during my climb were almost null, but all of a sudden, for some reason, I get all these people that are just leaving the game, either after the 3 minute period, at the 25 minute period, or just AFK because they're raging or something. It's like Riot intentionally places you with people that are more likely to AFK, so that you can lose the game.

Yes, I realize the phrase "If you're better than your elo, you can carry every game". YES, THAT IS TRUE, however, the game needs to statistically have a percentage of at least 45% or higher to win that game (close to even), or else it's like a 4v5/3v5 figuratively speaking.

I know climbing the ladder is suppose to be harder the more games you win, and harder in terms of more skilled people to be matched with.

But I am 100% not okay with Riot putting in algorithms in the matchmaking that try and make a person lose a game to bring them as close as possible to a 50% win ratio. It isn't fair, and it's not right.

And before the Silvers and Bronzes comment "But you fed in your recent games, you're mainly the issue in losing the game". Were you in the game? Did you know that other lane opponents won there lanes and then grouped and I couldn't do anything because it's such a disadvantage for me? Did you know that I got repeatedly 3 man tower dived in some games from behind my jungle because my jungle was counter jungle wolves on the other side of the map?

No, you don't know any of those things, KDA after the game doesn't tell you the whole story, so stop basing a persons reasoning for losing a game solely on that.

59 Comments

Slythion11 votes

here's an idea rito: match people of similar elos together and don't stack teams for lolz

awdaf5 votes

The issue is MMR, I hate MMR, I wish it could be that

Bronzes Vs Bronzes

Silvers Vs Silvers

Golds Vs Golds

Platinums Vs Platinums

Diamonds/Masters Vs. Diamonds/Masters

Challenger/Masters Vs. Challenger/Masters

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

[deleted]

awdaf3 votes

How, MMR is literally just a hidden version of leagues, if you're gold 3, and your MMR is Plat 4 level, you'll be matched with low Plats

If you just had the League system as I said, if you were Gold 3, but much better than the people around you, you would climb to that ACTUAL rank.

Faie4 votes

If your MMR is Plat 4 and you're in Gold 3, you'll gain a lot more LP for wins than you'll lose for losses, so by having just a 50% winrate, you'll climb up to your actual ranking.

Spicy Rice1 votes

While true, at the same time, if you do have a high mmr, the system is giving you teammates with lower average mmr's than the enemy team.

It's done to equalize people at 50% winrate, but imo it ruins ranked integrity as the more you climb, the harder it's stacked against you

Faie1 votes

Since when does it do that? I'm pretty sure that's just an urban legend in League. There's been exactly zero official sources on it, and people only say that based on anecdotal evidence.

I've had a 65% winrate over my past ~70 soloq games, and I've never run into this "legendary rito 50% winrate". Im pretty sure it's just people getting their true ranking and not being able to climb any more, then blaming their losses on "the system".

Mojihito6661 votes

"Since when does it do that? I'm pretty sure that's just an urban legend in League. There's been exactly zero official sources on it, and people only say that based on anecdotal evidence."

That is not really possible to prove it when all actual data is hidden ( on purpose i might add ). it can only be "proven" by estimation from sites such as op.gg

Faie1 votes

Yeah, so why do people think that the system is rigged against them? From my experience climbing on smurfs and climbing on my main account, matches are overall even and aren't rigged. It's likely people just hit their true ranking and suddenly can't climb because they're exactly as good as all other 9 players in their match.

Keylight XD1 votes

{quoted}

Since when does it do that? I'm pretty sure that's just an urban legend in League. There's been exactly zero official sources on it, and people only say that based on anecdotal evidence.

I've had a 65% winrate over my past ~70 soloq games, and I've never run into this "legendary rito 50% winrate". Im pretty sure it's just people getting their true ranking and not being able to climb any more, then blaming their losses on "the system".

dude this just literally happened to me, and if you are on 70 games then who knows you might be next, no joke! I was also sitting on 65% win ratio(with a specific champ), played 50 games and then it started piling up on me. check my match history.

Faie1 votes

Well it looks like you tilted off the face of the planet. You have a really high amount of deaths every game, and lower CS than you usually do. I wouldn't blame your teammates or the matchmaking. It looks like you're just playing worse than you usually do.

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

Those matches would be far less balanced. Remember, MMR is a much better representation of skill overall than the lp system.

but if everyone is gold 5 in a game for a example, and one team won, wouldn't that mean they're better than gold 5 and can climb? Why do people need to face plats to prove they belong in gold 4?

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

BakedLotion1 votes

{quoted}

Depends on mmr. If everyone had silver 3 mmr and gold 5, than the winning team haven't proved anything. Also, people don't need to face plats to get into gold 4, they can easily play only gold players. The plats they do face only have gold mmr.

Remember, the lp/division is not a measure of skill, it is a measure of achievement. Instead of thinking of players by their lp division, you need to start to think of players by their mmr.

But if there are plats with gold mmr, then why isn't the gold person also plat? Since they're both technically the same "skill level" ?

Slythion12 votes

that's why I love getting matched against plats in my silver-elo games

like, why am I playing a plat-difficulty game as proof that I'm better than silvers? They should just do away with "elo" and make your rankings based on mmr, kinda like overwatch

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

Your ranking in Overwatch is not based on your MMR any more than in League. The only difference is the promos and falling shields, which shouldn't exist in either game.

Slythion1 votes

I was under the impression that based on your score is where your rank is:

ie: 1100-1500 is "gold" 1501-2000 is "plat"

etc etc

TheSingularity1 votes

This was my silv to gold promos.

Like our friendly OP, i was on a huge winning streak as I shot through silver 4 to the top of 1.

Then fun time arrived.

2 sets of promos in which I lost 6 games to teams full of plats and high golds. My tean mates were silver 1/2 and gold 5 at best. We are not plat. Testing my ability to play at a gold level by pitting me against plats is completely unjustified and illogical.

Not only does it lose me games, punish me for playing well and waste my time. BUT IT ALSO PUNISHES THE PLAYERS I AM MATCHED WITH! They are also, like myself not as good as these plats. Otherwise they would be plat themselves. They are merely tools used by riot, players who are already having a bad day/time on losing streaks, tilted, angry or trolls/afkers. TOOLS TO FORCE AS CLOSE TO A 50% WIN RATE AS POSSIBLE!

I got out, but in the cheapest way possible. With 2 free wins, another loss to plats and an absolute stomp of bronze 1's and silver 5's with golds on my team.

Yay for me, I got a rank I don't even feel I earned or deserve. Great system riot -_-

Slythion1 votes

I have quit ranked for a bit, because when I played it at the start of the season I got placed Silver 2. I wasn't surprised, I climbed from b5 -> g5 in just over 2 weeks (not consecutive, b5 -> s5 then s5 -> g5 with a break inbetween) with a +80% win rate, so I didn't think I'd drop too far.

Then the real ranked games started, and my team was full of bronze/silvers (both this year and last year) while we're playing against previous plats with an occasional diamond...I basically said fuck it.

I'm not going to play plat/diamond level games with a bunch of silvers, I'm not going to subject myself to games with the odds stacked against me, just because I'm doing well or because I'm a gold/plat level players. Put me against some damn silvers and let me prove to you that I'm better than silvers, I don't need to be reminded consistently that I'm not high plat/diamond tier...fck that

I can have fun playing norms too rito, gg

Power Cosmic1 votes

That is basically what it is. A person's play rarely matches their results.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

That's how it used to be :( back when elo existed.

Keylight XD1 votes

I always wondered why we even need the mmr? whats wrong with being matched based on your current division (+/- 1 division for queue time sake)?

the only thing I can think of is that mmr is supposed to boost your lp earned from games if you are winning a lot. Couldn't this just be managed by the amount of games that you played in your current division? have the lp boost decay over time based on number of games.

does someone know something I don't? please clarify the importance of mmr.

Surr20plz1 votes

{quoted}

The issue is MMR, I hate MMR, I wish it could be that

Bronzes Vs Bronzes

Silvers Vs Silvers

Golds Vs Golds

Platinums Vs Platinums

Diamonds/Masters Vs. Diamonds/Masters

Challenger/Masters Vs. Challenger/Masters

The MMR system is fine, but there seems to be total MMR and then this 2nd MMR that is only about recent matches. This 2nd is the MMR that is the problem. It's the stat that says "ayyy you're doing good! You mind if we match with you some shitters? Thanks!"

This is not ok and needs to changed. Just undo this shit and let things flow naturally.

Gregor Gysi5 votes

So I didn't see your 18 game winrate but I saw very decent streaks with Orianna. So from what I've seen there is something much more obvious than streaks of "bad teammates" or anything: you aren't the greatest toplaner. In fact, you aren't great with anything that isn't middle (except for toplane Jayce arguably). Your performance with Ori, Syndra and Zed, however, are pretty damn good. Just stick with those and for the love of God, stop with Riven. She is your most played champion while also being your worst. Just watch your games, your "bad teams" seem to coincide with your toplane/jgl games. I for one believe there may be a connection.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

You got downvoted for offering real, practical advice. People only want QQ salt and tinfoil hats.

Mig891 votes

I was gonna say this but you beat me to it. People check op.gg for their opponents rank when the only important thing (imo) is what champs I'm good with. I had a 60% win rate on zyra all of last season so I always play her unless it's a horrendous pick into the enemy team. People need to learn who they're actually good with when it comes to ranked.

ezTrumpez4 votes

"algorithms in the matchmaking"

Yes, they exist.

It's actually deeper than you know. Your reactions are cataloged. A large part of the reason for these nefarious algorithms is to data-mine the human psyche.

Don't play this game and expect it to be fair.

Also... some of these 'afkers' and 'trolls' are sophisticated bots designed to fill the role of antagonist.

Faie13 votes

adjusts tin-foil hat

Automated Riven2 votes

yeah I have never heard the idea that riot programs bots to mess with people.

Emerald Fang4 votes

This is proven, that's exactly what they do.

reiko573 votes

team mates will lose you 80% of your games, and win you 80% of your games, it's what you do with the other 20% that determines your rank. ignore the idiots who are only there to lose and try to overcome their awful play, don't do anything they say or it will take you out of position to steal one of those free wins they're trying to give the other team.

i'm playing a lot better since i realized this was jsut the way a 5 man team game operates. because lately i've realized that i can just attempt (doesn't always work) to get bigger than the other teams biggest threat, it's always nice to dictate your own pace of play but a feeder doesn't always allow that, they only rage and AFK because they see nothing on their side that can prevent their failures from destroying the game, so try to be that something. i'd try to be "safe" when a team mate was feeding because i didn't want to contribute to that, but that doesn't matter if you're just going to lose the game anyway, go ahead and take a shot, nothing ventured- nothing gained.

QuickenedBlade3 votes

I don't understand what the mmr system is supposed to accomplish

If I am better than gold 3, I should be vs'ing Gold 3's to prove it, not plat 3's or s5's. If I am better than plat 3, I should be vs'ing Plat 3's to prove it, not d5's with g5's on my team.

How are ranks supposed to be accurate when you don't even vs people of the same rank? Either get rid of ranks and put in only mmr, or get rid of mmr and keep ranks. At this point, rank means nothing other than a "showcase/bragging rights". MMR is the only thing that actually matters when it comes to who you vs..

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Benn happening in normals & aram for several months too; basically matchmaking has been screwed up ever since they started fiddling with it years ago.

rtbf2256182412 votes

It's not a bandwagon. It's a well known fact. Game balance has been a bigger problem for a long time so it always overshadowed it.

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

"Riot makes it harder to climb intentionally as you win more games"

Of fucking course they do. As you win more games, your MMR goes up. As your MMR goes up, you get matched against harder opponents. If you don't match their skill, you will stop climbing. Riot doesn't have algorithms that bring you to 50% winrate. They don't track who ints or who afks, because both of those things are almost impossible to track. What they have is players with confirmation bias.

Also, it's quite easy to tell how a game went for you. Were I not on mobile, I'd do it right now.

Xonra2 votes

Actually, it is more that the game tries to keep teams even, but they don't just put people at even mmr levels. They try to make games FASTER, not more consistently "fair". So the higher you climb, the more likely you are to get that guy who is signifcantly worse, but sure, both teams have fairly even mmr. Both teams could have this, or one team could have someone significantly higher mmr and one guy significantly lower.

The system always tends to give you manufactured difficulty in the way they put you with lower mmr players at times, and as I've stated before, it isn't about who has the better players to win, it starts to become about who has the worst players to lose.

When you are in bronze, sure you all suck, and 1 person going 17/2 suddenly is a HUGE deal. As quick as mid silver, that 17/2 guy means dick, because the moment you get that same bronze level guy still going 2/17, the 17/2 guy doesn't matter anymore.

Lil Fella 2131 votes

Same story for me except I climbed up to Plat 4 50 LP before the losses has started piling up. I have not played well either but the teams i'm getting recently have been dreadful besides my last game but we threw that one because of bad comp. I've lost 5 in a row and I might have to take another 3 month break if it reaches 10.

Mojihito6661 votes

Funny when my win rate dropped to 50% suddenly all my games become carriable even from support position.

xKillSwitchx1 votes

I know the feeling I finally got myself into plat 5 was at 93 LP then lost my last 4 games.. teams I was getting placed against were all high plat 1,2 and my team had gold 3,5 and a non ranked player. How is this fair? We got stomped.. had same issue with afk players showing up just before remake then DC again and either never come back or show up 15 mins into game with no chance of comeback.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

How do you explain high elo players being able to climb consistently on surfs though?

Keylight XD1 votes

wow and I thought I was the only one. For a moment there I thought I was just bad.

I had played about 50 games with my jax at steady 65% win ratio. I was one win away from gold 1 and then just like you it started happening. I lost like 7 or 8 games in a row due to either players on my team going on a feeding frenzy, or just afk halfway in. And it's not like the afks happened on both sides, I must have lost about 4 or 5 of my games due to one player going afk, but the favor was never returned on the opposition. It got to the point where I really though I was doing something wrong and so I started playing other champs and now down to a total of 17 games loss streak. now at gold 4. surely I'm responsible for some of it, and it would be crazy to assume that rito is behind my loss streak but but ...

edit: I just had my first win after 19 games

A Basic Island1 votes

flip a coin 5000 times

im willing to bet you'll see streaks of Heads or tails 10+ multiple times

Surr20plz1 votes

LP is shadows and sand.

It means nothing.

Randomonium1 votes

I really wish riot would pick a system rather than this "MMR is used for matchmaking but it's completely hidden." Either have our MMR be our ranking our just get rid of MMR and match people based on their actual rank. Last season when I was trying to get into gold (so I was silver 1) I was getting placed against gold 3 to plat 4 opponents. You should have to play against high gold and low plat opponents to get into gold 5.

Unpaladin1 votes

Why isn't this talked about more? It's becoming increasingly obvious this isn't an isolated case. A rank discrepancy between players in a professional environment is really fucking important.

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