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@Riot Singed Changes I would like to see in Season 6

g07h4xf00··7 votes·2,096 views

Singed main here. I am the author of two popular/top Singed guides:

http://www.lolking.net/guides/255326 http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/s5-welcome-to-singed-city-patch-5-18-425849

I've been theory-crafting Singed and playing him since Season 3. I was the FIRST Singed main to popularize the item 3116 +item 3151 with no item 3070 and no item 3027 build as well as the 1/25/4 masteries page that is currently the popular and optimal masteries page for the champion. http://champion.gg/champion/Singed

Here is my view of what sorts of changes can be done if he ever gets reworked to try to bring him up-to-date with modern champions.

**1) Quality-of-live improvements. **Increase his base movement speed to 350 or 355. I think it's ridiculous that other melee champions like Pantheon LeeSin have higher base movement speed than Singed . They both have gap-closer and escape abilities. Singed should have more base movement speed than the average melee champion, especially since his play style is heavily determined by his ability to over-take people and stay in front of them.

Increase his auto-attack range. The new standard for melee champions seems to be 175. Look at the recent Juggernaut reworks and other melee champions released relatively recently like Yasuo. They all seem to have 175 attack range now. I think we should increase Singed 's attack range to 175 because when he attacks, he bashes people with his shield. Have you seen that thing? It's quite large and long. Most of the time (if you see the animation) when you hit people it looks like your shield goes through them because ITS animation range is longer than the attack range, which is weird.

On a similar note, increase Fling's range from 125->175 to be consistent with the new auto-attack range.

Speaking of Fling, can we PLEASE get the same quality-of-life update that TahmKench got a patch or two ago? Make fling prioritize champions or champions you recently attacked (however TahmKench's swallow thing does). It's so sad when you're trying to fling someone and you accidentally fling a minion or something. Fling isn't a cheap spell, it costs 100+ mana so missing it is really painful.

2) His passive. Let's be honest here, his passive is really shitty. The problem with his passive is that it's a noob trap which tricks a lot of novice players into wanting to build mana items like RoA, Tear, or FH. However, as you can see in my guides, which is also reflected statistically, his most optimal build, that is, the build which gives him the most damage+survivability+utility with 6-items doesn't include any of these items. He seldom runs out of mana without mana items in mid-late game, and you only have issues in early game if you're not conservative with your mana / mindlessly leaving your poison on all the time.

Don't believe me? InvertedComposer is the original Singed main (not anymore) but he created a build optimizer site http://www.leagueoflegendsmath.com/Item_Optimizer.html where he has a program that does number crunching and calculations to determine the most optimal build for champions. Obviously the tool is not perfect, but a champion like Singed was the first one he ever did the math for and also the relatively simple kit makes it easy to formulate assumptions and derive a build from it.

I think we should remove his mana->HP passive completely. Remove it and bump his base HP and HP/lvl to make up for it. Currently at level 18 (without his passive) he has 1937 HP. Bump him up to the 2201 level so he's in the same tier as other tanky champions but also this makes up for the loss of mana->HP conversion from his passive based solely on base mana stats.

What should his new passive be? I think it should be something that fits his theme better as a "Mad Chemist." It would also be something that could help his terrible early game and make it more bearable so he can at least farm minions against lane counters without having to proxy or do something cheesy. This passive will revolve around and emphasize potions. You hear him talk about "mix mix swirl mix" all the time in-game but never see him do anything that interesting with potions (aside from his ultimate).

Idea: Make it so that his passive is something similar to the "Alchemist" mastery in the utility tree. Though, instead of increasing how long a potion lasts, increase the strength of it, by say, 50%. Example:

item 2003: 150 health over 15 seconds -> 225 health over 15 seconds item 2004: 100 mana over 15 seconds -> 150 mana over 15 seconds item 2041: 120 health and 60 mana over 12 seconds -> 180 health and 90 mana over 12 seconds

During lane phase he has very little sustain, and if you've ever played him you find yourself buying potions a lot, even if you decide to build Catalyst. This helps make lane phase a little more bearable. It also makes the utility tree more appealing because stacking this passive with the Alchemist mastery can make for very good amounts of sustain.

This is only half the idea for the passive, however. There will come a point in time in which he no longer buys potions or his inventory can't fit anymore. I still want to make this passive useful in late game, so here's the second half of it: elixirs can be stacked. The common rule of Elixirs are that you can only have one active at a time. What if Singed 's new passive made it so you can stack multiple of them? Imagine having item 2139 item 2137 item 2138 all active in late game. It would be pretty cool, but of course it would still cost gold, though it will allow you to get to late game and feel like you have a passive, something useful you can feel.

3. His W. Let's be real here, his W is one of the most boring abilities in the game. It's an AOE skillshot slow, similar to Ziggs' Hextech Minefield. I thought it was cool how they added its combo potential with your Fling allowing you to root champions on it. A simple quality-of-life improvement would be to allow Singed to cast W while he's running, so it doesn't interrupt his movement. Many other champions have effects similar to this. It doesn't make much sense for Singed to have to stop in his tracks to cast his W before continuing to run. This change makes sense thematically.

I was thinking it could also have another effect. Here are two ideas I had for possible additional effect:

a) When Singed casts W while his Q is toggled on, enemies within it get poisoned with Singed 's Q poison for 3 seconds.

b) Enemies poisoned while on the Mega Adhesive area take X% bonus damage from the poison. I'm not sure what the X should be. Let's say 50% for now and we can figure out number balancing later.

Option (a) would help him farm against ranged champions that he can't get near since he can cast his W on minions to poison them and deal damage. This wouldn't be that spammable because his W has a LONG cooldown and Singed typically doesn't build much CDR. Option (b) I like a little more, since it would add additional incentive for you to want to flip enemies into the W zone but also make it feel useful to use in situations where you've already caught up to them and are sticking to them. I think one (or both) of these changes would be nice.

4. His ultimate. This is the change I think is least important. Maybe we can make his ultimate feel less like a balls-of-stats ability and more of a game play-making ability. Maybe while his ultimate is active, he receives some empowered effects on his other abilities. Here are some IDEAS:

a) Maybe while his ultimate is active, his Q slows poisoned enemies by X% (reduces reliance on item 3116 build). b) Maybe while his ultimate is active, his Q deals additional %HP damage to poisoned targets (current or max HP, either one). This would reduce reliance on a item 3151 build. c) Maybe while his ultimate is active, his passive doubles effectiveness from potion enhancements (50%->100% bonus potion strength). d) Maybe while his ultimate is active, his W behaves in one of the new ways I proposed in my previous point. e) Maybe while his ultimate is active, his Fling now roots for an additional 1 second if you land the target on your Mega Adhesive.

Just some ideas. Though, to make up for these new effects we should probably change some of the stats it gives. Instead of 35/50/80 flat stats maybe we can change it to some %. We could do like 10/20/30% damage reduction, bonus movement speed, bonus AP, and bonus hp/mana regeneration. If you do some of this math I think with the %'s you get less stats than currently with the flat amounts, but now it scales better into late game and also would give you some added effects on your other abilities for better synergy.

These are some ideas I've had. I can probably brainstorm more. OBVIOUSLY not ALL of these ideas should be necessarily implemented. Maybe it would make him too OP. You would probably bash me for being biased and just wanting an across-the-board buff. I'll admit I may be a little bias, but I think most Singed mains would get behind some or all of these changes and the Rito balance team can see some merit. I really hope he sees more changes in Season 6, changes that would help modernize him and make him an overall more interesting and thematic champion. I DO realize there are other champions who urgently need changes and Singed is "fine" living in solo queue with a decent win rate so I'm not saying it's absolutely critical that he be reworked or anything like that.

Thoughts?

17 Comments

Jolyne Cujoh1 votes

Singed main rofl I'm sorry man

g07h4xf001 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daddys Princess,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uoltnW5x,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-21T09:23:00.228+0000)

Singed main rofl I'm sorry man

?

luckmallory1 votes

Check his elo then check yours

g07h4xf001 votes

Bump for the night

FlashGuard91 votes

As an ex singed main i agree with most of your post. I have been thinking about an idea around singed's ultimate to make it more appealing to his mad chemist theme ill post it sooner or later this week.

Anyway, there is a lot to discuss about singed, and was thinking about adding a few tweaks that are needed for singed for a long time. One of them was the Mr per lvl which riot already delivered

Second thing is his mana cost on his E at lvl 1 - in my opinion is has way high mana cost (100 mana) for an ability that doesn't have much of an impact aside from flinging enemies to towers and to teams at lvl 1 fights. reducing the mana cost on his E from 100 to 80 at lvl 1 wont change much but it will be a quality change for singed players including the inexperienced ones.

g07h4xf001 votes

{quoted}

As an ex singed main i agree with most of your post. I have been thinking about an idea around singed's ultimate to make it more appealing to his mad chemist theme ill post it sooner or later this week.

Anyway, there is a lot to discuss about singed, and was thinking about adding a few tweaks that are needed for singed for a long time. One of them was the Mr per lvl which riot already delivered

Second thing is his mana cost on his E at lvl 1 - in my opinion is has way high mana cost (100 mana) for an ability that doesn't have much of an impact aside from flinging enemies to towers and to teams at lvl 1 fights. reducing the mana cost on his E from 100 to 80 at lvl 1 wont change much but it will be a quality change for singed players including the inexperienced ones.

I agree that mana cost is a bit high. I think the reason all of Singed abilities cost so much mana (except his poison) is that Rito assumed people would just build mana on him for his passive so he would have a large mana pool. The problem is his W E and R abilities have such a high cooldown that a single mana item will make you never have to worry about mana ever again. I think there is such a thing as having "too much mana" and in my view any mana that is not spent is wasted.

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

Why not give his dmg a rework to work off of mana as well? I think the build mana-be singed is kind of core to my perspective when I see him in games. AMana +rylais liandries combo IMO should be 'his build' from a non singed main looking at thematics

g07h4xf001 votes

{quoted}

Why not give his dmg a rework to work off of mana as well? I think the build mana-be singed is kind of core to my perspective when I see him in games. AMana +rylais liandries combo IMO should be 'his build' from a non singed main looking at thematics

Well, I actually thought about that idea of doubling-down on his mana passive by either making his abilities scale off mana or make his passive give more HP per point of mana. I decided to go away from this approach because I think it would be more unhealthy for him than it is now. He would basically become a melee version of Ryze and I think would be more of a ball-of-stats type champion in that regard. I think exchanging this "free stats" thing for a more utility-driven kit would make him better overall and easier to balance. It would also make it more likely for him to see pro play, not necessarily as a top pick/ban but as a solid viable option.

g07h4xf001 votes

Bumperino

Jesus Died 4 You1 votes

[deleted]

g07h4xf001 votes

{quoted}

A really cool suggestion I've seen is that Singed could have an unique item. It would work like crystalline flask with 3 charges, but it gives the stats of Insanity Potion. 1 charge is = 50% of Insanity potion stats, using 2 charges would give you the same stats as just pressing ult and using 3 charges in one go would give you 150% of the stats from insanity potion. It would scale with level, so at level 6, popping all 3 Insanity potion stacks would equal 150% of rank 1 Singed ult. I haven't thought about whether it should give other stats passively like 200 health, 60 armor, 60 MR, ect. This seems like it would be a pretty cool mechanic, no one has a unique consumable item yet and it would fit Singed's them. It would give him an ammo system and make the Singed player decide whether or not to use a stack of Insanity potion because he knows he only gets 3 per recall.

This would replace Singed's old passive with an altered version of his ultimate and leave Singed open for a new ultimate. I don't know what that ultimate should be, but the passive of the ultimate could be the increased potion effectiveness/elixir stacking that you mentioned, further increasing the effectiveness of his Insanity Potion item (Imagine Singed ult, but 225% the power, making it extremely powerful to make up for the fact he can only use it once per recall). Tell me what you think! Btw, I love the instant cast W suggestion, would make him feel much smoother.

I think that's an interesting idea since having an item that takes up an inventory slot but still be super effective can be unique and interesting. However, it has to scale in a way that doesn't make him a lane bully to champions in lane. Would he automatically start with this item similar to Viktor item 3200 ? Would he have to buy it? If so, how much does it cost? Does it upgrade from its first purchase?

I definitely like the idea of stacking potions. Another idea I had (which I didn't go with) is making potions stackable. for example, Suppose in my inventory I have item 2041, 3xitem 2003, and 3xitem 2004 . If I queue up all 3 charges of item 2041 they get used one-at-a-time. At the same time, I cannot use item 2003 or item 2004 while item 2041 is currently healing, and vice-versa. The idea I had was being able to stack all of these potions' charges together in parallel rather than in series.

Example: I can queue all 9 total charges of item 2041, 3xitem 2003, and 3xitem 2004 for a total of 810 HP over 15 seconds and 480 mana over 15 seconds.

This sounds like a lot of stats but keep in mind that pots like item 2003 and item 2004 cost money to buy and also item 2041 already heals that amount but over a longer period of time. Keep in mind that this is VISIBLE power that the enemy can SEE since they can see Singed's inventory and also the particle animations of the healing.

Jesus Died 4 You1 votes

[deleted]

g07h4xf001 votes

{quoted}

Before I go into anything else, I'll try to lay out some stats that I want the Insanity Potion item to hold. I said that I wanted a stack of the Insanity Potion item to be worth 50% of Singed Ult, so: 1 Stack(s): 50% 2 Stack(s): 100% 3 Stack(s): 150%

I also said I wanted it to scale with level, I meant to say each individual level (My bad should've clarified). So, let's do some math. At Rank 1, Singed ultimate gives 35 of every stat which we'll simplify to 36. This mean by level 6, 2 stacks of the Insanity Potion item will equal 36 of every stat and 3 stacks will be 54 of every stat. For this to be possible, these are the stats given by 1 stack of the Insanity Potion item from levels 1-6: Level 1: 3 of every stat, stacking up to 9 Level 2: 6 of every stat, stacking up to 18 Level 3: 9 of every stat, stacking up to 27 Level 4: 12 of every stat, stacking up to 36 Level 5: 15 of every stat, stacking up to 45 Level 6: 18 of every stat, stacking up to 54

When actually looking at the numbers, this looks extremely powerful, it starts to ramp up very quickly. I would guess that a Singed would try to conserve the stacks for a level 4 or 5 all-in as at this point he has an ultimate tier ability before his opponent. Looking at the pure stats it gives, I definitely recant suggesting adding any passive stats like, "X amount of HP/AR/MR/ECT". If I were to calculate the benefits if he had a 50% potion effectiveness passive on his ultimate, using all 3 stacks of the Insanity Potion item at level 6 would be: Level 5: 15 of every stat, stacking up to 45 Level 6: 27 of every stat, stacking up to 81

That is pure insanity (pun intended), a rank 3 Singed ult at level 6, hilarious. Here is the stats the Insanity Potion item would give at levels 11 and 16: Level 11: 37.5 of every stat, stacking up to 113 Level 16: 60 of every stat, stacking up to 180

I'm not going to lie, those stats look pretty stupid (in an unbalanced way). The effectiveness of each individual stack of the Insanity potion item should be reduced to 33% (1/3) of Singed's current ult from 50% (1/2). These are the stats given from levels 1-6 with 33% effectiveness: Level 1: 2 of every stat, stacking up to 6 Level 2: 4 of every stat, stacking up to 12 Level 3: 6 of every stat, stacking up to 18 Level 4: 8 of every stat, stacking up to 24 Level 5: 10 of every stat, stacking up to 30 Level 6: 18 of every stat, stacking up to 54 (Ultimate passive power spike)

Conclusion: This need a lot more work and I don't feel like writing anymore, so I'm going to leave it here for future reference. Having it scale in individual level is a bad idea in hindsight, as most things in League of Legends scale every 3-4 level.

Yeah, that looks really strong, and probably not good to combine with my proposed passive idea.

Cowgirl Ed1 votes

start with doran's ring and take ignite thats how u play singed noob.

g07h4xf001 votes

{quoted}

start with doran's ring and take ignite thats how u play singed noob.

Taking summoner 14 as a top laner in Season 5 is a recipe for disaster. This isn't bronze.

g07h4xf001 votes

Bump

g07h4xf001 votes

Bumperino

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