adc builds

Toastey·Mar 9, 2016·2 votes·342 views

pretty hilariously ironic that after all the adc changes and the massive fiesta with reworks and item overhauls...

IE into Statikk Shiv is still the standard build path on most adc's

26 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

Actually most build ER first, and the split between RFC and SS is pretty good. Runnan's is never going to be a core item except on a couple of champions

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

item 3031 Ashe Caitlyn Draven Jinx Jhin Tristana

item 3508 Lucian MissFortune Sivir

Other Corki Ezreal Graves Kalista Kindred KogMaw Quinn Twitch Varus Vayne

RIP ur "most build ER first"

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

item 3087 Caitlyn Jhin Jinx Lucian Sivir Tristana Twitch Vayne

item 3094 Literally nobody. MAYBE Caitlyn or Vayne , but the wave clear + AoE from Statikk is just way too valuable (plus the numbers are better)

RIP ur "healthy split"

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

Jhin prefers RFC for the long range crits, Caitlyn for her headshots, Twitch gets Runnan's (also a viable option for Jinx and Caitlyn)

Other then that, they take SS, or usually aren't crit focused. Also keep in mind the only reason SS is a bit more popular right now is due to recent buffs

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

uhhhh

shiv is standard b/c of the buffs, yes, you just said it yourself. there's no reason to go for the RFC poke dmg post-nerf + shiv buff.

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

also somewhat unrelated, but why for the love of god do you go BotRK third on ashe

awful 3rd item for her you legit just tickle ppl

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

I don't usually, but as you see, they had a gigantic Nasus, and as we were getting crushed pretty heavily, I went for the Bork to help take down the Nasus. Unfortunately, it did basically nothing. I prefer BT for my lifesteal item, and rarely if ever build a BoRk

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

i see 2 games with botrk ashe on the first page

build LW mate. look at how much armour that nasus stacked. lifesteal isn't so priority that u need to go for it 3rd item every game.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

And that game had a Malphite and a health stacking Volibear, so again, I tried to see if that would help. Unfortunately, it didn't do much, as we were already behind (was playing with a premade 5, and we got the luck to go against a plat 5 Caitlyn, who stomped us pretty handily).

Ashe is the only champion that I regularly play that I build a complete lifesteal item 3rd, as I don't have another item that would go better after IE, Runnan's, and boots. On my other ADCs, I will typically only build a Vamp Scepter first, then go into whatever item it is that I need (usually with the ADCs I play, it's IE)

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

going lifesteal 3rd item makes u do zero dmg in fights you need LW 3rd or a BF sword 3rd, not a vamp scep vamp scep is a waste of money to buy sooner than 4th item imo; somebody out there has prob done the math

it's just way too important to hit the BF (+ pickaxe) + zeal item spike asap, and then it's way too important to hit your 2-item powerspike asap. early vamp scep gives u nothing but sustain and kinda shoehorns u into playing like a bitch and relying on your sustain.

by buying vamp early, u basically say "i'm willing to lose every single trade b/c i will lifesteal up", which is again a really reactive way to play.

next time u play against a million tanks, try lw third and tell me how it goes

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

In most of my games, I don't have a super unkillable tank that got fed, so I generally don't need one of the LW items. As for getting a vamp scepter, it allows me to be safer, as I can stay in lane longer, I will out trade opponents, and generally am able to do more. It's not "I'm willing to lose every trade", it's "I don't want to lose trades, to I am going to put myself in the advantage". Again, on the champions I normally play, I only build the vamp scepter before moving to finish the IE (as my main ADCs are ER builders). At the time I build a vamp, I have ER, greaves, and the zeal item, so I have already hit the first powerspike. At this point, I need to be able to farm safer and longer, something a higher amount of life steal provides

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

an adc with BF + vamp will lose every single trade to an adc with BF + pickaxe or BF + zeal. not to mention that BF+vamp will almost always get pushed in vs BF+pick or BF+zeal, so the enemy can chip your tower more easily and put on map/kill pressure. u won't be pressuring shit with vamp early, so you're able to do way less than if u had just bought dmg.

buying for your own safety < buying to put the enemy in danger except when you really need a qss. buy that item. that item is insanely good.

your priorities are pretty fucked up if u take vamp sceptre over IE.

also LW isn't for "super unkillable tank(s) that got fed", it's just if the enemy team has anything more than 2 cumulative armour items. you need that shit unless you wanna tickle people the front line (which you'll be hitting 90% of the time in fights).

honestly all in all from talking to you, it seems like you place too high a premium on safety + utility and way too low a value on raw damage

just hold your heal/flash (and safety jump if you have it---don't be like doublelift and suicide with trist w and ez e on CD) for safety, position well in fights, and build dmg. you'll do a lot more work than if you tickle ppl but stay alive.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

Don't think you're quite understanding when I buy a vamp. I get a complete BF item, and a complete zeal item, and tier 2 boots, then I get a vamp (just a vamp, on my mains)

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

distant shouting of "you need last whisper" in the background

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

also, if you're still laning for extended periods of time after u have 2 full items + t2 boots + another item component...

idk what you're doing with ur time. u should be grouping and fighting/sieging as soon as u have 2 items + boots of any sort + level 9

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

equally distant shouting of "not really", as I don't usually need it http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2119300537/205363278?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2111469684/205363278?tab=overview (only game I was actually moving to build one, and I really only needed the Executioner's)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2109839987/205363278?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2108850093/205363278?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2114143823/205363278?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2116485908/205363278?tab=overview

Look, if there is a case where I actually need it, which is only in the case where I am behind and/or the tank is fed, I get one. But usually, I don't need it, as I have enough damage to simply ignore it. Yes, they may take half a second longer to kill, but when they are the last ones up, and the sole focus, it isn't a problem.

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

ok lemme run thru those games in order

they had 1 non-zhonyas armour item in randuin's on jax. u don't need one
ur teemo had morello's wtf are u doing building mortal reminder. LDR >>>>>> mortal by far, esp since u won't be building HP on adc's.
their comp is full squish and garen built trash items (spirit visage -> warmog's -> youmu's vs a gnar. wtf??? unless that was garen mid. in which case also wtf???)
lmao 2/10 velkoz and 4/11 diana. u coulda stacked BF sword items and walked around in circles blindfolded and u woulda won that game.
ayy lmao 3/12 naut constantly double suiciding alongside rengar. also imagine the insane dmg u wouldve dealt (+ shredding nasus) if u build LDR instead of that guinsoo's (wtf guinsoo's?)
ur vs full squish again + thresh going for aegis first big item. ofc u didn't need LW item

these aren't really demonstrative games if u wanna make the case that LW isn't a good 3rd item (or a worse 3rd item than vamp)

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

item 3031 Ashe Caitlyn Jhin Draven

item 3508 Lucian MissFortune Sivir Quinn traditional Graves non blue Ezreal

item 3153 Twitch Vayne Kalista

Either item 3031 or item 3508 Jinx Tristana

Other Corki Ezreal KogMaw Kindred Varus , blue Ezreal , top/jungler Quinn / Graves

Looking straight at it, ER and IE are tied. You consider a few other builds (still possible), it has more.

If Jinx wants to spam rockets more, then she can get ER for the sustain. If Tristana wants to take towers faster, then she can get an ER for the CDR. Any champion that has heavy mana costs or works on spell weaving wants to get ER. Very few ADCs don't meet those qualifications -- the ones that have low mana costs and are pretty much entirely AA based

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

quinn gets youmu's first graves rarely gets ER first i only mentioned those two in passing as technical "marksmen", but they're awful in the botlane and much more suited for top and jg

non-blue ez is trash compared to blue atm

botrk first is really, really iffy just b/c of how nerfed the item is. hurricane first kalista is a thing, and it's also equally good (if not better b/c u get waveclear and teamfighting options). twitch can also get youmu first, competitive w/ botrk.

ER first on jinx and trist is absolute garbage. you do no dmg whatsoever.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

For Quinn ADC (which, by the way, works just as good as any other), you go ER first. You only get a Youmu's if you are top or mid, as those roles you can afford the weaker late game for mid game spike. Non blue Ez would still go ER first. If Iceborn wasn't in the current state, he would go directly to the same type of build as someone like Lucian.

item 3031 : 65 AD, 20% crit chance, your crits deal 50% extra damage item 3508 : 65 AD, 20% crit chance, 10% CDR, your crits restore mana and you get CDR based on bonus crit chance

They have the same bases, the only difference is the passives. With an IE, you will have bigger spikes, but with an ER you will have more consistency on your damage due to the sustain.

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

i think you're seriously underestimating what 50% extra crit damage will do for you to call IE and ER on equal footing for damage

as for your statement about iceborn...it's a pretty disingenuous thing to say. "if iceborn wasn't like this, ezreal wouldn't buy it." well, of course. but it IS like this. so ezreal DOES buy it.

quinn adc is way, way worse than quinn top b/c she gets tied down to her lane. quinn wants to hit 6 and roam and/or splitpush and be flexible about her lane assignment. you can have a roaming support and leave the adc in lane, but you can't have a roaming adc and leave the support in lane 1v2.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

You don't always need your support to roam. When the situation presents itself, and you can do it, you can roam yourself. If the bot lane is pushed to their tower (or you already took their tower) then you have the freedom to roam, and as Quinn is a strong laner, then she can push easily to take said tower first and then have the freedom to roam.

Late game, you don't necessarily need to split push as much as top or mid Quinn because you actually have a teamfight presence as you have much higher damage due to crit.

And I said they have the same bases, and then said what the difference the two passives create in the damage pattern

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

disingenuous statement #3 from you: "it's only the passives that make ie do more damage, so ie and er are comparable first items"

when the situation presents itself

that's literally the problem with bot quinn though?? you need to be proactively looking for roams/plays to make quinn optimal, not react to situations handed to you like it's a happy surprise. "oh nice! i can roam now i guess" is not a good way to play.

also LOL at u thinking the only thing keeping top/mid quinn from having teamfight presence is her lack of crit. it's her kit, not her crit, mate. she's a flanker and provides nothing more than flanking in teamfights, regardless of her build. if you play her like a regular adc and just go in from the front and then kite/hit the front line, you're wasting her identity as a champion.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 9, 20161 votes

So on top Quinn, you'll just leave the lane in the middle of CSing because your mid laner is doing..fine or whatever? Roaming as a strategy is defined as doing it at the right time. If you roam incorrectly, then you have minimal to no gains in exchange for greater losses. You do it right, you have large gains with minimal losses.

And really? You want to argue with me about Quinn? http://imgur.com/CSnAq21 I've been playing Quinn as my main ADC since nearly a full season before her rework. Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I say Quinn ADC works, or would you prefer I start telling you you don't know how to play Kog'Maw?

With proper positioning, Quinn works just as well as any other short range carry (of which there are several). She also can easily hold her own against nearly every other ADC in a 1v1 duel (could do it even better before her rework), as well as several assassins. So really, tell me how I'm wasting the champions identity when a) you dont play Quinn, and b) she has several working at the same time.

And sorry if this comes off as really hostile, but one of the things I cannot stand is when people say Quinn can't ADC because they don't see her there, especially when they don't play Quinn.

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

vertical knowledge pool =/= horizontal knowledge pool i've been with this game for almost 6 years and have been doing analyst-esque things for about 2-3 years. sure, you have a lot of firsthand experience on quinn, but i wager that i have way more experience thinking deeply about the game in a broader sense than most players.

also most of my mastery points on kog were from AP kog. RIP AP kog. toxic champ to be sure, but was pretty fun to play. i'm a trash kog adc to be sure, even before his rework.

u misunderstand proactive vs reactive tho. creating opportunities >>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting for opportunities.

if ur mid is doing fine, then set up an invade with ur jg or get deep vision and just run back to lane. no reason to stick around and jack off in front of enemy tower and watch enemy laner farm and possibly get ganked.

as for wasting her identity, you've kind of already pointed out what i meant. she functions like any other short range carry (ie lucian), but she provides so much flanking value that it's a waste to play her like any other short range carry, just like it's a waste to play culling-poke lucian and never teamfight/skirmish. it's not just about "what can my champion do", it's about "what can my champion do best, and how can i find ways to do exactly that thing all the time"

ToasteyMar 9, 20161 votes

ur top priority as adc should be to hammer out as much DPM as possible, unless you're literally the only tower dmg available to ur team (like a trist in a triple AP comp)

that's not even an issue anymore in the current meta, what with the rice-paper towers and lich bane being so good on meta mids. that, and corki does fat tower damage because corki is balanced (i promise).

ur not of any value to your team whatsoever as an adc if you survive every fight but deal no meaningful damage. play tanks if that's what u like to do.

if u wanna play the "let me get defensive about my stats", i have a gold efficiency of 145% and an average DPM of 545. tell me i don't know what items are build priority, and tell me i don't know how to maximise damage. for reference, even top-tier LCS adc's have average gold efficiencies of ~125%. obviously much different contexts (competitive vs soloQ), but i still don't think a player having close to 150% gold efficiency is anything to sneeze at.