where the fuck is solo queue
tired of running into 3-man stacks as solo
ladder is skewed as fuck and i hate playing ranked anymore unless i'm at least duo
24 Comments
Uiraya5 votesThe smart money right now is that it isn't happening. If Riot spent half as much effort on admitting their mistakes as they do trying to pretend like they never make them, this would be a very different game from a very different company.
Hethalean2 votesHow do you get this impression? That they don't follow every whine post on forums? Not a great scale. None of the posts that just complain on the forums are compelling. None really provide evidence, statistics, or anything that'll convince someone thinking about a game as a whole to change what they are doing. Most just point to other posts that are people whining and trying to vent their frustration in an unhelpful manner saying "See all these other people. Everyone must think this way." Unfortunately this is a logical fallacy, and thus not a compelling argument either.
If you read the patch notes, there is frequent references to how they didn't balance something correctly. "That's on us." "That's our bad." "Oops." are frequent occurrences in their notes.
A Miss Fortune1 votesIf Riot began admitting to their mistakes then that's all they would do.
Hethalean2 votesThey actually put a lot of effort into their dynamic queue. They prioritize premades vs premades (so if you're facing a 3 man, there is a good chance you are WITH a premade). Otherwise, people not in premades will be a higher MMR and thus should have a higher skill than the premades.
Facing a premade isn't just an automatic loss. I've lost with premades. I've won vs premades.
All that aside, coming to the forums and swearing about it won't really assist in Riot saying "Oh yeah, this dude who keeps using vulgar language is right. We should totally do what he says. The eloquent use of fuck convinced us."
Toastey5 voteseffort =/= good result. tilts the fuck out of me whenever someone defends a shitty product/decision with "but they worked hard on it!" 10000 of shitty work that produces shitty things doesn't stack up to 10 hours of good work that produces good things.
Hethalean2 votesI was politely telling you that you are whining about losing versus a premade when things were not definitively stacked against you, and that you have no real evidence beyond "I SAW PREMADE AND LOST! Clearly that is it, I didn't suck. My top lane didn't feed solo vs our top lane!" Their dynamic queue logic is actually very solid. I'm sorry you lost a game. However, looking towards your own mistakes is going to be more fruitful than a non existent scapegoat.
Toastey4 votesdynamic queue's existence makes sense when it exists alongside soloQ, and when there are separate ladders for both.
makes no sense to have only dynamic queue, and consequently have dynamic dictate the only ranked ladder. this thread isn't because i just lost a game to a premade 3. it isn't even because i lose a shitload to premade 3's. this thread is about competitive integrity as a whole. i'm speaking for both the lower, languishing portions of the ladder, and the upper portions of the ladder (where the skewing is much more evident and severe---last i remember the top 15 or 20 challenger spots are all people who 5-man together)
Hethalean1 votesSo, only solo q or make a 5 man premade in your opinion?
EDIT: Because the way I see it, most people (probably you included) will complain about the dynamic queue super long queue because you are just in a duo premade.. It takes so long to find that 3 man that has just the right combo to make a match with yours, or if it was just SoloQ you'd whine about hwo you can't queue with a friend.
Toastey4 votesno, have soloQ and dynamic Q both. i literally said exactly that.
if i'm specifically asking for solo only queue, why on earth would i whine about not being able to duo
Hethalean2 votesBecause if you want Solo Queue, mainly what you are ALSO asking is that you only have 5 man premades (because those'll be fast to match... hopefully... otherwise you'll likely get matched against a group with a substantially different MMR [skill level] and one team will get smashed unless you're lucky enough to have two premades with roughly the same skill). The other option for Dynamic Queue then (this is assuming that no one is going to solo join Dynamic Queue) is that as a 2 man or 3 man that you have extra long queues because match making is going to have fun trying to find a 2/3 man that rounds out your team so you don't have 2 tops or 2 mids or 2 jungles or what have you... seeing as currently there is already a support shortage will only exacerbate everything.
EDIT: I apologize for making it sound like you are whiny. The negativity of the forums today has gotten to me. NO EXCUSE, I know. So I am apologizing.
Toastey3 votes"if you want solo queue, you MUST want dynamic to only mean 5-man stacks"
??????????????????????????????????? check the mmr of the current dynamic queue matchmaking, it's shit. matchmaking has always been shit in this game, and the queue format doesn't affect the quality of the matchmaking algorithm. who cares if you get long queue times as 2-3 man. breaks between games are good. i like playing other games in queue, too. but none of that matters, because i specifically, personally don't care about the state of dynamic queue at all.
i just want solo-only queue, and that's it.
Hethalean2 votesIf matchmaking has always been shit, you seem to keep with it for some reason and complain how it is worse even thought it is 'always shit'.
Who cares about long queues? Everyone. I haven't been on the boards that long, but it seems like every day there are dozens of people complaining about long queues (but they don't want to queue as anything that can get support).
You just want to solo queue. Do you also have games where you are fighting against people who can communicate with in game channels? They are fairly efficient.
In any case, you should visit here because it depth into statistics, decisions, and other logical devises as to why solo queue has not been released yet. It'll probably be helpful to you to see why they haven't released a type of queue that will probably just result in a metric ton of posts suggesting solo queue is not perfect.
Toastey4 votesmmm nice a -361 thread should be credible and provide good reasoning.
that said, i read it, and i don't like it. solo queue already existed before. just bring it back as a separate ladder (which is what i've been wanting from the very beginning) so there aren't any shenannigans with having to balance premade and solo ladder rankings.
it doesn't matter if solo-only queue isn't "perfect". nothing ever will be. but in any possible iteration except for an extreme one in which matchmaking doesn't doesn't exist, solo-only queue will always be better than dynamic queue for competitive integrity and a more accurate ladder.
I hate my ADC1 votesOf course it's -361. It's a Red post trying to explain to a mob of players why they can't just implement what that mob of players want. Never mind the fact that they have hard data to analyze. Never mind that it's their job to make decisions that will affect MILLIONS of players around the world. Never mind that they can't just do things in a vacuum.
It's fine not to agree with every decisions they make, but completely ignoring what those decisions entails is simply wrong.
It's simple, they can't just add solo-only queue because it would cause negative repercussions. Adding solo-only queue is on the table but for now they are trying to make sure dynamic queue is stable. What players are asking of Riot is for them to go full YOLO mode and deal with the consequence of a change made on a whim. Screw them for not doing it... right? But nah. It's always ME ME ME, NOW NOW NOW.
Toastey1 votesit's...not like solo queue didn't exist before. well, technically it was solo/duo + ranked 5s, but then those both got deleted and homogenised into dynamic queue.
what negative repercussions would solo queue possible have? how on earth would a separate, fair ladder have negative repercussions? dynamic queue is the full yolo mode decision here, not solo queue.
I hate my ADC1 votesWhat problems was Dynamic Queue supposed to deal with huh?
- Extreme wait time for ranked 5s.
- The inability to 3 or 4 man queue. And that's exactly what Dynamic dealt with. They also changed the queuing system so people would choose their role in advance, something that would have been hard to achieve pre-dynamic queue because of how the queue was split in 2 (Solo/Duo and 5s). Even with 1 homogenised queue, we are still hit with the problem that the least played role (Support) is so much in demand that queue time are horrendous for non-support players. If they'd separate queues again while trying to keep the "choose your role" functionality, queue time would be even longer for non-supports.
So negative repercussions of adding a solo-only queue:
- Extreme wait time for 2, 3, 4 and 5 man premades.
- Even more horrendous wait time for non-support solo queue.
Positive repercussions?
- Mostly just a placebo effect for the players.
That's right, a placebo effect. Riot showed the hard data and everyone simply ignore it because they'd rather piss and moan about premades they aren't even facing. Let me quote it again:
The number of people playing in premades is the highest we’ve seen in League’s history and 98.6% of the time, premades of 4 or 5 teammates are being matched against a premade of the same size (most of the 1.4% with more divergent premade sizes come from very high and very low MMR ranges). Teams made of solos and duos are matched against a premade 4 or premade 5 only 0.21% of the time, and players queueing solo get teamed up with 4 man premades 3% of the time.
The chances for a solo queue to be fighting against 4 or 5 man premades is so low that solo-duo queue would barely change anything. It would only make players think the queuing system is better when in fact it would absolutely not be better because of the increased queue time from having 2 distinct queues for ranked. It would make the queuing system worse because they'd try to shove in a solo-duo or solo-only queue along Dynamic Queue when they already have more pressing problems to solve like the lack of support players and...
This is a big problem. That (position selection) and high MMR matchmaking are our two highest priorities.
The more queues they add, the harder it gets to balance, keep wait time healthy and having a fair and skill based ranking system.
But hey, nah let's just keep asking for solo-only queue. That's absolutely gonna get you out of silver.
Toastey1 votesYeah but you're leaving out a hugely important factor: the demand of solo-only queue. I reckon it's high enough so that if solo-only queue were implemented, the wait time in solo-only would be pretty alright. As for long wait times in premade 3+, I don't think that's going to be the case. Like I said, it's not like this sort of dichotomy didn't exist before. You act like it's super fucking difficult to have and maintain two separate queues and make wait times acceptable...when that was the system we had for 2 years running.
Instead of "1-2 / 5 only", now I (and many others) am asking for "1 only / 2-5". Pretty much the exact same thing, and last I remember, Ranked 5's queues weren't nearly as long (or filled with dodges) as dynamic queue has been.
And to reiterate for the umpteenth time, this is neither about me personally nor about wait times---those things are both insanely low priorities compared to the skewing of the ladder (especially higher up) and the competitive integrity of ranked. It's difficult to see which player is theoretically the best, which is literally the entire point of ranked.
As a final note, it also tilts me that Riot apologists like you act like this type of shit is revolutionary and super fucking difficult and has never been done before. For fuck's sake, Starcraft has separate ladders for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. What the hell are you and Riot smoking to come out and say that it's too hard to balance solo-only and dynamic together?
I hate my ADC1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ymxslNe9,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-03T02:05:37.280+0000)
I don't think that's going to be the case
That sentence pretty much resume your entire argument. You assume ...
> You act like it's super fucking difficult
... and act like it's super fucking easy to make a sweeping change in a vacuum. They can't just throw away all the work they did to implement Dynamic queue just to revert back to something that wasn't better in the first place. Instead of solo queue complaints, you had complaints about leavers, toxicity, the lack of 3-4 man queues and all that sort of crap in Ranked because people wouldn't be able to play what they wanted to play.
And honestly, as a solo-duo queuer, I honestly don't care whether or not they add Solo-only queue. I don't even know if I'm fighting with or against premades. I've seen solo players coordinate with their team without the need of a voice over to do so. I'd actually love it if Riot would add a number next to people name in the loading screen to show if they are in a premade and with who. Just so people would stop blaming premades when there is none like they accuse people of scripting all the time.
mogonk1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ymxslNe9,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-02T05:24:34.638+0000)
mmm nice a -361 thread should be credible and provide good reasoning.
that said, i read it, and i don't like it. solo queue already existed before. just bring it back as a separate ladder (which is what i've been wanting from the very beginning) so there aren't any shenannigans with having to balance premade and solo ladder rankings.
it doesn't matter if solo-only queue isn't "perfect". nothing ever will be. but in any possible iteration except for an extreme one in which matchmaking doesn't doesn't exist, solo-only queue will always be better than dynamic queue for competitive integrity and a more accurate ladder.
If it had 10 times as many downvotes, that might influence Riot's decision making.
Might.
webkr3b51 votesOP never whined about losing versus premades. OP said that he doesn't want to play both with and against premades. Playing jungle solo for example right now is a pain, since a good amount of games have 2- or 3-stacks on both sides now, against which you have a significantly worse time surprising them around the map because of better communication.
zecastar2 votesRiot lied and doesn't care about the integrity of ranked. The problem has nothing to do with mismatches of queue configuration.
DeloricVI1 votesladder is skewed as fuck and i hate playing ranked anymore unless i'm at least duo
Um, hasn't this always been how it went for soloqueue? People going, "Oh, yeah, if you duo you'll have a better time?" when someone complained about how they swear they always get a bad team in soloqueue?
Also, to answer your question, Riot is debating if they're going to bring it back at all. Check the stickies threads, "New Champ Select Update" has more details.
Irelia Bot1 votesUm, hasn't this always been how it went for soloqueue? People going, "Oh, yeah, if you duo you'll have a better time?" when someone complained about how they swear they always get a bad team in soloqueue?
Also, to answer your question, Riot is debating if they're going to bring it back at all. Check the stickies threads, "New Champ Select Update" has more details.
IT could get worse and it clearly got worse.
When you have a bronze 3 who has a limited concept of objective control getting carried by a diamond 3 and a plat 2 you know things are going to be messed up.
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