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So Gragas and Sejuani are currently overtuned as junglers.

4nth0l0gy·5/15/2015, 12:00:46 PM·1 votes·1,059 views

I don't think they're broken, by any means. They do have strong kits, though: both have an untargeted dash, decent to good base damage, and very heavy AoE crowd control on a skillshot. I think these shared factors, combined with the tank-favorable meta shift thanks to cinderhulk, are what has made them so dominant as of recent. Personally, I really like the cinderhulk meta, but I don't think it's fair that Sejuani and Gragas get to crowd out other junglers.

So: if you were going to tune down Sejuani and Gragas, how would you do it? Do you think simple number nerfs are enough? Or are their kits just too problematic, and they'd require some tinkering to balance them?

21 Comments

Nameless Voice5/15/2015, 12:09:39 PM3 votes

They just gave Cinderhulk a significant nerf, let's see how this affects these two champions.

I felt that one major reason that Sej felt too strong was because she did so much damage despite her CC and tankiness. With Cinderhulk's burn against champions lowered, maybe she will feel fairer. Anyway, I don't feel that Sej's kit is unfair, just that she's a tiny bit too strong. If that's still the case in this new patch, then I think all she needs to bring her into line is slight number tweaks.

I honestly don't find Gragas anywhere near as overwhelming. He's strong, but but oppressively so. Maybe it's just that no one knows how to play him properly in Platinum V?

Killstrado5/15/2015, 12:23:42 PM2 votes

Ok follow this closely, it's an ancient hidden secret......whole team focus that tank and no one else.....dies super quick....easy squishies left because you focused properly instead of complaining about talking carries out first and losing fights, trust me as a tank jungler

Imotekh Kharn5/15/2015, 2:22:57 PM2 votes

The problem is they added an item to make Tank junglers a bit more popular/useful with extra attention to less played champs like Nautilus and Zac, but feels like they didn't even look at the already popular tanks like Volibear and Sejuani who needed up becoming extremely strong.

I literally almost never see assassin junglers anymore because tank junglers are just so strong that its a disservice to your team not to play them.

Cinderhulk does a lot more as a tank item then Warrior does as and Ad item, fills the niche better.

Old Man Teeto5/15/2015, 12:50:42 PM2 votes

Current jungle doesn't punish either of them.

Need the other jungle variants to be playable without pretty much auto-losing the mid/late game due to weaker itemization.

The jungle a LONG time a go was designed for three archetypes.

Ganker - Cleared only enough to keep pace, ganked a lot. (Signature champion: Jarvan IV) Power Farmer - Cleared constantly, and invaded to steal camps, rarely ganked. (Signature champion: Shyvanna) Control - Cleared, warded, and maintained map vision and buff control. (Signature champion: Nunu)

The Ganker beat the Power Farmer, who beat the Control, who beat the Ganker. Ganker's cleared slowly, lacked good sustain, but were impressive gankers. Power Farmer's were late game behemoths who could clear quickly and often invade for extra camps, they beat the Control. The Control kept his lanes safe and eyes on the other jungler. Control beat the ganker.

Currently, Power Farming is very weak, ganking is "okay" but Control is the primary jungling method now. For a while it was just "gank everything!" but Riot nerfed all those champions itemization and individually. This is why you see a Sightstone so frequently on the jungler.

TLDR: Sejuanni, Gragas, and Nunu are the best control junglers currently, with Sej + Gragas benefitting from the other two variants enough to push them into being the top tier junglers. Rek'sai is still good, but she's an early game Control variant while Sej and Gragas are late game, and while Rek'sai can sometimes play invade bully, she doesn't offer the kill pressure onto a Sej and Gragas that Lee Sin, Vi, Elise, Jarvan had on them.

Crett5/15/2015, 12:35:36 PM1 votes

The new Abyssal Scepter is GOING to be built on tanks with Cinderhulk.

Craft Zeppelin5/15/2015, 12:13:04 PM1 votes

I actually hate the tank meta. And can't help with it. It's just a baserase when either side gets a small advantage. Why are these "tanks" are doing ridiculous damage while having the ability to lock down a whole team and also have the ability to disengage or crush the backline. They can do "anything" and simply because of this they are popular picks.

Kledy McKledFace5/15/2015, 1:33:47 PM1 votes

remove % health dmgs to gragas for sure and sej before tuning her down I would fix her bugging Q

Rico Nasty5/15/2015, 12:25:25 PM1 votes

Sej's kit is ridiculous. One gap closer/escape that has a knockup and damage, a high-damage AoE slow, another high-damage AoE slow, and a VERY high-damage stun, which, you guessed it, is AoE. Sejuani needs slight nerfs and she'll be fine. Gragas feels really overpowered, but idk that much about his kit so I have no right to be saying anything.