A Discussion of Bias

Eedat··24 votes·1,161 views

I really dont understand this mentality. Why cant people just be happy that their champ is balanced? I see this all the time were people try to play it off something like 50% WR with a 4% playrate means the champion is bad and needs buffs. Like what? Why do you want your balanced champ buffed to pick/ban tier until they get hard nerfed? It doesnt stop there though. When a champ is obviously overtuned , theyll defend the champ up and down. 54% WR with a 15% play rate? NAAHHHHHH THEYRE FINE.

Then comes the book of god awful excuses:

  • only mains play them!

  • theyre just good in this meta!

  • look at this other OP champ! That means mine cant be!

  • look at these matches I did bad in!

  • but this one OTP said so on YouTube!

  • we agree on the OTP subreddit! A collection of OTPs couldnt possibly be massively biased!

  • they arent used in the LC$!

  • I personally cant climb!

  • theres only one or two mains in challenger!

Honestly its pretty ridiculous. This is the problem when you main only one or two champs. You only see the game from one perspective. Could you possibly see why your opinion is biased? Its gotten to the point where I cant take mains seriously anymore. I honestly do try to give people the benefit of a doubt, but there is still that feeling when clicking on a thread that there is going to be a metric shit ton of bias. The problem is 80-90% of the time thst ends up being the case. Unless your champ has been Olaf'd or #LC$'d. People stretch the truth, flat out lie, or selectively pick facts to make their argument sound better.

Lets take a look at me, for example. I main Wukong. In the past when I'm not playing Wukong, I tend to play other divers like Vi, J4, Hecarim, etc. I have a natural bias against enchanters because they hard counter what I play in ranked. When discussing enchanters, I need to be extra careful and take a step back and really look at it. Instead of just saying "fuck enchanters", I've realized the only enchanter I have a problem with is Janna. This isnt a thread about Janna though.

Honestly a lot of this stems from role selection. Overall I think role selection is great, but it did have some undesirable side effects. One of those being a lot more people lock into playing a few champs or one type of champ. Again, I'm not saying role selection is bad or needs to be removed, but even changes that are overall positive will always have at least some drawbacks.

This is my challenge to you.

Go into a normal game, and play a champ thats a completely different playstyle that what you play a few times. I main divers who throw themselves into all or nothing fights. So one of the champs I picked was Teemo. A ranged autoattacker who kites around the edge of fights. "Nobody likes Teemo" comments aside, I actually learned quite a bit. Another champ I picked was Nasus. A late game hyperscaler. Well, that was the idea anyway. He comes online too quickly imo. I did learn how dogshit he actually is in teamfights though. Another thing I do (this one isnt exactly plausible for most people) is I play a lot of ARAM on this account with every champion unlocked. You dont need everyone unlocked, just a mix of different classes and roles. This really gives me a feel for what it takes for a champion to succeed and what stops them.

Having trouble with a specific champ? Play them. Eventually you will find someone who shits on you and exposes your weaknesses. Incorporate that knowledge into your own gameplay. Maybe you'll find that champ isnt as easy as you thought. Hell, maybe you'll end up liking the champ and add them to your roster.

Listen, I'm just some gold scrub that doesnt play much ranked. I dont want to be some D5 player that one tricks my way there though. I've finally come to terms with the fact that playing so much of one type of champion has hurt my progression throughout the years. You should too. Try to open your eyes a little.

P.S. whatever champ hardstomped you last match isnt completely broken OP most likely. There are like 20 of these saltposts on this board per day. For the love of god stop it

23 Comments

Radiant Wukong7 votes

Singed 53% win rate high elo (diamond+) 68% professionally (26 games played between LCS, LCK and whatever the other one is thus far season 8) 51.5% average bronze - plat with no elo being under 51% Picked as much as any other champion as far as pick rate goes

Flamed to almighty hell when I say he needs nerfing

Slythrin Umbreon1 votes

Buff Singed, 2018

Melledoneus2 votes

Many make the argument that he is a niche pick and thus has an artificially inflated win rate.

AirKingNeo4 votes

OTP's opinion argument works for 'what's best on said champion' only. Obviously, these guys try to figure out what shit is best all the time for that champion.

AmazoX3 votes

"They aren't used in LCS" isn't a bad excuse.

It just means the champion is complete garbage against a team with good players which is Master/Challenger/LCS level of Players.

It just means that X champion is going to be garbage against a team that know's what it is doing BUT will be impressively good against teams without coordination which is what AD Assassins pretty much are like, since they have the most counter play in all of the classes.

You can nullify an AD Assassin's effectiveness in multiple ways, defensive stats alone work great at reducing the amount they are able to penetrate, then exists the supportive actives with supportive abilities that are used against them, if they don't play near perfect and end the match with victory, they fall off. Their entire state is just not suitable against coordinated play.

Eedat10 votes

Yes, its a complete garbage excuse. Nobody comes here bitch about champs because theyre losing their 5v5s. People come here bitching about getting dumped on in soloQ.

Not only is LCS comprised of only the very best players in a region, but these players practice together hours upon hours per week. They have voice coms with clear leadership and shotcalling. They have crazy coordination. You will never get anything even remotely CLOSE to this level in soloQ EVER. This is playing at a level that 99.99% of players will never approach. Even LCS players agree that LCS is a completely different game than even challenger soloQ.

Balancing around LCS is an absolutely wretched idea.

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, its a complete garbage excuse. Nobody comes here bitch about champs because theyre losing their 5v5s. People come here bitching about getting dumped on in soloQ.

Not only is LCS comprised of only the very best players in a region, but these players practice together hours upon hours per week. They have voice coms with clear leadership and shotcalling. They have crazy coordination. You will never get anything even remotely CLOSE to this level in soloQ EVER. This is playing at a level that 99.99% of players will never approach. Even LCS players agree that LCS is a completely different game than even challenger soloQ.

Balancing around LCS is an absolutely wretched idea.

What your reply says is LCS is completely different and balancing around the absolute best players is a wretched idea WITHOUT any explanation as to why it is said a "wretched idea"

You only stated the game shouldn't be balanced around that level of play because 99.99% players won't reach that level of play?

THAT is a bad idea.

Are you saying the game should be balanced around the level of play where the majority of players belong to? Which is Bronze & Silver for your information. If the balance team had the same mindset as you, the game would have been doomed long ago.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

Why do you post this in gameplay section ?!!!

Why cant people just be happy that their champ is balanced? I see this all the time were people try to play it off something like 50% WR with a 4% playrate means the champion is bad and needs buffs.

50% dosn't mean its balanced. And with this pickrate its unlickly. You mean Wukong with this exemple. So i ll ask, if getting shitted on by every Toplaners or Junglers make him balanced ???

Instead of just saying "fuck enchanters", I've realized the only enchanter I have a problem with is Janna. This isnt a thread about Janna though.

Glad its not a topic about enchanters... Cause JAnna isn't the only issue.

sir d wreck3 votes

Why do you post this in gameplay section ?!!!

Because part of the discussion is encouraging people to play other champs, which is gameplay.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

i feel like its a random post like "git gud".

saltran3 votes

Agree, and for the hot topic I would recomend every adc player to play top and every toplane to go adc at least a few games to change points of view.

Sonasaurous3 votes

As a Sona main, I happily mock the other Sona mains who regularly post complaints on here that basically read along the lines of "revert the 2015 rework!" and "Sona should be able to deal 0-100 damage to tanks while simultaneously healing all allies 100% every 2.5 seconds!" Like, their complaints are dumb. The only "valid" complaint is that she isn't viable in high elo...but like, Garen's also not viable in high elo, but you don't see people complaining that he should be.

Not every champion needs to be LCS tier. Would be nice if they were, but its only natural, with 120+ champions in a competitive game, that not every single champion is going to be the absolute best in their role for every team comp.

[sona-playing]

TempName548462 votes

a lot of champions can be balanced at 54% win ratio and a lot of champions can be broken at 50% win ratio, anyways i will go back to complaining about camille and how fucking retardedly broken she is now.

Zizzek3 votes

You need to have the perspective of "What is Camille's win condition?" If you think she is irreparably broken either 50% of camille's are utter trash (and the statistics are going to make you a liar) or you don't understand how the champion works and are playing into her hand. There is a reason she loses 50% of games, you just need to figure out why and make that your win condition.

I say this needing to learn Camille because I haven't figured out how to make her do a lot of dmg without 3 items -- which is a really late scaling from what I'm used to. I've also never had a problem beating Camille in lane.

TempName548461 votes

she does suck massive dick in silver and gold so that's probably what causes your perception, shes the most broken shitter in the game and no this isn't me talking from ignorance this is me talking from experience abusing the shit out of her and her 0 bad matchups.

Kloak3 votes

[{quoted}](name=johnny rebel,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uhXudGzN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-04T23:22:03.840+0000)

a lot of champions can be balanced at 54% win ratio and a lot of champions can be broken at 50% win ratio, anyways i will go back to complaining about camille and how fucking retardedly broken she is now.

Bruh preach, her Q true damage is insane.

RainbowIcee1 votes

can we make the same argument for champion reworks? IF a champion has a decent win rate and a decent playerbase ( 1 - 2% pick rate is pretty good on a game that has 140 champions ) then that champion should probably not hit the gutter and be deleted to be replaced with another champ of the same name. I know it's done just to make the game more "fresh" but still this is just back stabbing people that have only been playing because of said champ.

JavelinJoe1 votes

I've realized the only enchanter I have a problem with is Janna.

Yep, the champion where every single ability they have can be considered a hard counter to divers and she still does fair poke/harass damage.

Pandeonor1 votes

TL:DR Agree.

+1

Shablagoo1 votes

K but we all know janna is op, cuz there is no shield counteer

PermaJinxed1 votes

I've been saying for years I want esports to be forced into broadening their champion pools/breakibg meta. In the end all lcs, lck, lpl, etc are is entertainment.... Entertainment of the viewers.

I hate seeing the same pick/ban phase every single game in a series.... It gets stale really quick. The lcs issue could be solved by modifying esports only pick rules to limit using the same comp time and time again. I'd rather see 5 close games with vastly different picks in the final than to watch my favorite team stomp in the same exact line-up 3 games straight.

Overwatch suffers the same issue (unsure if dota does too). It turns into the same 10-12 champs over and over.....

As for the balance issue, 50% winrate with over 5% pick rate but under 25% should be the end goal for as much as is possible (win rates fluctuate between ranks).

kargish1 votes

I'm just saying that this argument can also be used in a reverse sense. You can be equally biased when you're playing a champion that gets stomped by another champion. I think a ton of people would say that my champion Rengar , which I have mained for 5½ years now, is the most toxic inferno being this game has to offer, when in reality for the last couple of patches Rengar has been on a negative win ratio. With your argument of not wanting to listen to OTP players that much, because you expect them to be biased, I could say that I wouldn't want to listen to ADC+mage mains because I expect bias due to them being my champion's prey.

Larriet1 votes

I disagree with the "only mains play them" thing, because Riot has said that about various champs with weirdly high winrates.

It's annoying when people say "they're just good in this meta", because "being meta" literally means they're stronger than everything else, lol.

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