Shaclone says "riot killed shaco"

lolipopevelynn·Oct 22, 2016·5 votes·2,479 views

But this one trick idiot is still maxing E on new shaco and still refuses to go crit builds lol. he really has no idea on how to adapt to changes.

FYI, new shaco is actually a buff if you are building him crit.

50 Comments

AhristocatsOct 22, 201611 votes

--->nerfed early game

--->doesn't fixe feast or famine

--->not nerfed

right

YoobaOct 22, 20167 votes

@OP: Shaclone is high diamond, you are Gold V.

GULAG 4 UOct 22, 20162 votes

shaclone is also toxic as fuck and flames all the time

YoobaOct 22, 20169 votes

{quoted}

shaclone is also toxic as fuck and flames all the time

Doesn't change the fact that he knows better than the gold V poster right here.

GULAG 4 UOct 22, 20164 votes

By that logic you would believe a challenger Aatrox telling you to build manamune and essence reaver over a silver one telling you to go ravenous hydra and pahntom dancer?

Best princess EUOct 22, 20166 votes

being retarded isn't the same thing as flaming

GULAG 4 UOct 22, 20161 votes

He is/does both

Best princess EUOct 22, 20165 votes

it seems that i'm arguing with people in the denial anyway

if a diamond 1 aatrox main got diamond by building manamune, and tells you to build manamune, that means he is right in reality, it's impossible to get diamond 1 by building manamune on aatrox, which is why your example is retarded af

shaclone got challenger or master by only playing shaco, if he plays him and tell you that the rework is retarded, that doesn't mean nothing. And he's right cause the rework is fucking garbage and a shitfest of laziness.

shaco has multiple problems, riot selected one which is his early game toxicity, and fixed it without looking at other things.

BardfulOct 28, 20161 votes

so should I take bard top because a person made it to masters doing it. Answer: YES he basically one tricked that. Also shaclone didn't build the meta. Doesn't matter thought the meta build isnt that fun I prefer ap and hybrid which this is also mostly a buff to. If the bard top player said the nerf to trinity ruined bard would you say it is referring to all bard players? Probably not. So they changed where shaco's power is not all the changes are nerfs to all shaco's playstyles.

GaleWinUnleashedOct 22, 20161 votes

That would be relevant if you could find a challenger Aatrox that would actually tell you to build those items.

GULAG 4 UOct 22, 20161 votes

I did

/kappa

franticFurballOct 22, 20165 votes

Rank means absolutely nothing, if the statement is factually wrong.

In 1988, Pasko Rakic was one of the top-Neuroscientists in the world, with many scientific honors and years of experience in the field. (He still is actually). According to his statements, Adult Neuroplasticity (Neurons growing and changing after an animal is grown to an adult) didn't happen.

Well, along comes Elizabeth Gould (who in 1989 just had her PhD for a year), challenging the No-Neuroplasticity-Dogma with new results that suggested that Neurons in fact do grow and develop even in adult brains.

The high-rank scientist Rakic had shut down such claims for years at this point. However, GOulds research turned out to be correct: In 1999, Rakic had to admit that Neurogenesis and Neuroplasticity does happen in adult brains.

Think about this little Story, next time you find yourself using rank, and only rank, as an argument in one of your posts.

Spicy RiceOct 22, 20162 votes

Here's the problem with your arguement. It assumes the arguement is based on testable evidence, and with league, there are so many factors that proving something is nigh impossible.

This means that the discussion comes down to opinion, in which case, someone with more experience and knowledge on the subject should and does have a more valid opinion than someone who does not as much skill and experience.

franticFurballOct 22, 20161 votes

Here's the problem with your arguement. It assumes the arguement is based on testable evidence

Which it is.

New Shaco will either do well, in which case Shaclone is wrong, or he will do badly, in which case Shaclone is right.

I don't see how that constitutes a non-testable hypothesis.

TequilaZombieOct 22, 20161 votes

People talk as if we can't see how a champion is doing after changes.

Wait 2 weeks, see how Shaco fares (specially at 100+ more games) and make a conclusion.

From the looks of it, the New Shaco looks somewhat better.

IMO, Riot underdelivered in his changes. I still haven't tested Shaco, but Riot seemed to fail to touch his core issues. Honestly, I don't mind, as he is viable AP now wihtout relying on gimmicks and has a better scalling into late game, but there was so much potential wasted.

franticFurballOct 22, 20161 votes

People talk as if we can't see how a champion is doing after changes.

I absolutely agree with you.

However, that was not the topic of this conversation I had...if you scroll up a bit, you will see that the original issue was the logical fallacy that rank is supposedly a substitute for arguments.

TequilaZombieOct 22, 20161 votes

I know, I just kinda answered here because it was related to the topic. Looking back, replying to Spicy Rice would have been a better option.

lolipopevelynnOct 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

@OP: Shaclone is high diamond, you are Gold V.

what does that have to do with him being a complete idiot?

{quoted}

He is right though, shacos early game is now destroyed, even if you max q. He struggles to clear the camps and loses too much hp.

ya his early game is weaker, but overall he is the same if not slightly better as the game goes on. also with plants and new masteries, more testing is needed to see just how much weaker his early game really is.

ParessOct 22, 20161 votes

Except if you keep Shaco with a strong early and with his other weaknesses fixed, he'll be worth banning/nerfing.

TheOvermindOct 22, 20166 votes

He is right though, shacos early game is now destroyed, even if you max q. He struggles to clear the camps and loses too much hp.

Big LincolnOct 22, 20165 votes

why would you build him crit now though, beyond IE you don't need anything otherwise you'll lose damage

You only get one guaranteed crit every couple seconds. not worth imo, just go heavy AD + IE

paisyOct 22, 20162 votes

Statikk helps with his burst

TequilaZombieOct 22, 20161 votes

item 3074 item 3087

Instant Wave Clear

TequilaZombieOct 22, 20161 votes

You build him as you always did. IE, maybe Shiv (the godlike wave clear), heavy AD.

Or you go AP without being almost useless.

I'm not seeing this changes as nothing but a tunning on his power curve. Worst early, better late. Overall, Shaco seems more balanced and forgiving. This being a good or bad thing gets down to personal opinion.

Nagoh ShanOct 22, 20165 votes

Just because they nerfed his favorite build on it.

item 3070

Wasn't intended to work on Shaco anyway. I don't know why he keeps using this build.

KeepeOct 22, 20161 votes

What build would that be?

Nagoh ShanOct 22, 20161 votes

The build in the post. 6 tears

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Shaclone

He builds it a lot, doesn't seem to work for him though.

KeepeOct 22, 20161 votes

Oh. I thought that was just a rhetorical "QQ" statement.

Huh.

BardfulOct 28, 20161 votes

I like how custom his builds can get though.

L Psy KongrooOct 22, 20163 votes

It's only natural for someone who has been invested in something for a very long time to be initially adverse to change. Veterans like Shaclone, who have been playing one thing since they started League have a certain connection to their champion that makes them skeptical of anything which would challenge their traditional views on how the champion should be played.

Change is difficult to accept for people like Shaclone, who are so set in their ways (ways, mind you, that have produced incredible results in consecutive seasons) that they have a hard time adapting to new situations. It's not abnormal, and certainly it's not just Shaclone who is affected by the assassin rework.

Think about how Talon/Katarina/Akali/LeBlanc mains feel, having to relearn their champion from ground zero all over again. Even though Shaco didn't get such major changes, for players who have mained Shaco as long as Shaclone has, a similar situation must be faced.

Furthermore, the fact that Shaclone is toxic and a flamer at times does not in and of itself invalidate his years of experience with Shaco. It makes him an asshole, yes, but an asshole who is extremely good at Shaco and knows every aspect of the champion inside and out.

Vanic998Oct 22, 20161 votes

I would disagree. Not everyone is against change to their main or hard to adapt to change. I'm a VELKOZ main before and after his rework and I love his rework.

L Psy KongrooOct 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I would disagree. Not everyone is against change to their main or hard to adapt to change. I'm a VELKOZ main before and after his rework and I love his rework.

I mean, you can hardly call the changes to Vel'koz a rework.........they aren't even close to being on the same level as the assassin reworks.

GULAG 4 UOct 22, 20162 votes

Shaclone should be give the tyler1 treatment for whishing cancer on teammates and running it down mid + flaming and trolling since s4

Ban this guy already

lolipopevelynnOct 22, 20162 votes

I cant believe there are this many sheep in this community. its actually disgusting. even the fucking halo community didnt have this many sheep.

shaclone has no idea how to play the new shaco, this is fucking evident because he is still maxing E first. its like when Swain got changed. people were STILL maxing E on swain not knowing that it was changed and you winrate would rise if you simply maxed Q first.

it took riot 3 patches to remind people of this before it finally stopped, thats how fucking stupid you people are. you dont read and analyze the god damn notes and instead just copy BLINDLY what other players are doing even if its blatantly wrong. you have no mind of your own, thats why you are sheep.

Spicy RiceOct 22, 20162 votes

I'm sorry, but have you tested every possible variation of maxing order and skill build on the new shaco?

If not, show me some proof that maxing e first is terrible

Oh wait, you can't, as he isn't on the live servers yet, meaning you don't have enough data

TequilaZombieOct 22, 20161 votes

You don't really need to test it out. You can see it by looking at how it scales with points, mana costs, uses per gank/clear, etc.

As a more extreme example: Even before Ryze changes came to live, it was obvious that maxing Q first would be much better than E.

Not disagreeing with you, nor agreeing when it comes to his new max order as I have no clue of the values are (or will be once it hits live), but at a quick glance, It's likely that for jungling Shaco will want to max Q, as it will be multiplied by his passive and most likely be a better source of burst. For laning, Shaco will still max E in any lane that it's not a free win, as it provides decent damage with range and safety. As a plus side, it will encourage him to all in oponents more often, even if he takes lots of damage in return, as it will have % missing health damage on it. Not being affected by his passive won't be a problem, as in most lanes his oponent won't turn it's back to the incoming shiv anyway.

Malicious MetalOct 22, 20161 votes

I'm somewhat guilty of this too.

Once I get everything figured out on Morde I don't really like changing stuff. That's why this preseason's kinda interesting for me seeing that my goto keystone got removed and there's going to be some other itemization changes

MordepoolOct 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uZ1k6E22,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-22T14:08:10.536+0000)

I'm somewhat guilty of this too.

Once I get everything figured out on Morde I don't really like changing stuff. That's why this preseason's kinda interesting for me seeing that my goto keystone got removed and there's going to be some other itemization changes

I've been experimenting with builds but it always seems to miss part of the puzzle

WeatheredOct 22, 20161 votes

Try ap

TeemoXNidaleeOct 22, 20161 votes

AD Shaco is destroyed, AP Shaco is the way and the only way now.

lolipopevelynnOct 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

AD Shaco is destroyed, AP Shaco is the way and the only way now.

first of all thats not true

2nd of all shaclone said AP shaco is dead too.

TeemoXNidaleeOct 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

first of all thats not true

2nd of all shaclone said AP shaco is dead too.

AP Shaco lost some damage on the dagger, but all other spells got buffed.

TequilaZombieOct 22, 20161 votes

AD Shaco has been buffed, if nothing else, by the new items and stronger passive (for bursting).

As a 4 season Shaco main, I'm hyped as fuck to test him out.

EDIT: Seem the rework. Riot fucked up.

DoximOct 26, 20161 votes

You are wrong. The damage and scaling of every single AD ability went down.

TequilaZombieOct 26, 20161 votes

I've just seen the new rework and how it will work out. It sucks.

Meep ManOct 22, 20161 votes

Don't worry, this happens with every Main when their champ gets reworked. Sometimes they are right, but majority of the time it's just them not accepting change.