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Veigar lost DFG

Thryale··5 votes·501 views

(at riot HQ)

Rioter 1: Okay guys, we've recently removed DFG from the game. This means a lot of old champs immobile champs that needed it's dmg to remain viable amidst all of these mobile assassins are really gonna suffer.

Rioter 2: Not to mention we promised the community that we'd buff veigar and mord specifically... what do we do?

Rioter 1: Well, I've got an idea for veig. Why don't we make all of his spells unreliable.

Rioter 3: uh huh, go on, how would we do that?

Rioter 1: we make his q a skill shot. That way, he can actually miss with his bread and butter dps skill and actually waste more mana when he actually decides to harass.

Rioter 2: oh, nice. What about his stun? that's been a blight in our game ever since it's conception. Are we going to finally remove it?

Rioter 1: No no, nothing that extreme, we'll just make it so that he'll never actually be able to land it on our lord and savior Lee Sin. We'll give it a long delay before the stun actually applies. That way, all of our assassins and gank happy junglers can dash in on veigar even after he places a "perfect" gate.

Rioter 3: oh! I see, that's a great idea. But weren't we supposed to buff veigar? the community will go up in an uproar if we don't give him some kind of buff.

Rioter 1: sigh, I guess yer right. I suppose it's high time we lowered some of his mana costs. that should be a decent compromise, right?

Rioter 2 & 3: true, yeah I guess.

Rioter 1: also, let's let his q hit two targets, like lux's q. that should appease the masses.

Rioter 2: what about his ult? if we make his q hit 2 minions, wouldn't that mean he'd farm twice as much ap?

Rioter 1: Glad you brought that up, I've got the solution for that. We'll just lower his ap ratio to 1.0, that way he won't blow ppl up anymore.

Rioter 2 & 3: Brilliant!

Rioter Intern: Uhm... but how does any of this compensate veigar for the lack of dmg created by the removal of DFG? Veigar has already been performing well by switching to a Morellonomicon/Dcap build recently, but no longer serves as the anti-mage/assassin niche he used to occupy. None of these changes actually address that fact. Why, I'd hazard to say that it shoves him in the complete opposite direction.

Rioter 1, 2, & 3: *glares*

Rioter 1: who let the intern in here?

Rioter 4: Oh, sorry guys, I'll take him. (at intern) C'mere you, you need to finish drinking the kool-aid I made for you.

13 Comments

KPVdqOqmF05 votes

This is how riot balances AP champions unfortunately -.-

They have a real knack for gutting AP champions, but when it comes to toning down melee AD champions hell no that's the devil =.=

Yuumi or Lose3 votes

Well this is a cringe post.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Uhm... but how does any of this compensate veigar for the lack of dmg created by the removal of DFG?

It doesn't. See Ahri changes for reference. You don't have to compensate damage directly to buff a champion. All the whiners about Ahri changes said the same thing, and she was the strongest champ in the game with those changes.

That's not saying anything about the rest of your post. I intend to be quiet about that until we see how it shakes out. The point of this post is to say that he doesn't need the direct damage if he gets other compensation.

Thryale2 votes

but what compensation DID he get? he lost dmg in his ult. He lost reliability on all 3 of his normal spells. (w relied on e) and he no longer has his niche of being an anti-mage/assassin champ.

With the change to his q, he's being shifted heavily to a poke/siege mage ala ziggs/old nid style.

The only "real" buff veig got was the mana changes he's been sorely needing for the past 3 years.

EDIT: also, I never saw the ahri changes as a nerf. I could see that she was going to be strong with the move speed change. She was never meant to be a real assassin, and playing to her original strengths of kiting and dealing dmg over time was the right choice. I don't see the same cohesiveness in these changes for veig tho.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

The buff is to his AP stacking. If you read the full post, they say this.

By amping up the AP farming mini-game on his Q, we're creating a new path for Veigar players to achieve their dream of pressing a single button and watching an enemy disappear. As it turns out though, this worked a bit too well, and pretty early in playtesting, we found that Veigar was reliably deleting people a bit too early in the game, so we had to make some small adjustments to his ult.

They state that he actually still does the massive damage, it just isn't coupled with an instant stun. Now that I read the Rioter comments (after I posted originally), your statement doesn't even make sense. They are letting him keep his damage, and his "anti-assassin" vibe should be intact, since he can trap them. Not sure what the problem is.

EDIT: So he DID keep the damage on his ult. They reduced the scaling since he stacks more AP. Ultimately, the damage overall is the same. If you don't farm Q, you don't deserve to burst people. That's called counter-play.

Thryale1 votes

I'm already able to last most all minions after rank 4 of my q as is. All this change will do is let you get around 10-20 more q stacks before the 20 min mark, after that, there will be very little difference due to how easy it is to last hit with his q atm.

The only real advantage I can see in this change is that it won't cost him quite so much mana to get the same amount of stacks. but his total stacks is not going to instantly balloon up to something crazy like 300-400 stacks.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

The people who have play-tested seem to disagree. Forgive me for putting more weight on their opinion.

Thryale1 votes

unless I missed a pbe update(just checked s@20 and RoG), it's not even out on pbe yet.

Fairly confident yer wrong, but I'll forgive you for that.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Riot tests it before it's on PBE. I'm talking about Riot playtesting it. They said his burst was fine. If it isn't when it releases on PBE, they will fix it, as they often do when INTERNAL playtesting didn't reveal the intricacies. That's how playtesting works. I'll forgive you for not understanding that.

Volt Cruelerz1 votes

Don't forget though, the buff to Q's farming will increase damage from Q (which is now basically AoE) and W, not just R, so this actually will compensate for his loss of DFG. Event Horizon is the only real problem.

Thryale2 votes

you do realize that once veig his lvl 7+ he can last hit most all of the minions already. So I still fail to see how it's going to substantially increase his q stacks. I can consistently get between 120 and 160 stacks each game with veigar. On my worst games, I can still get around 80 and my best games can go well past 200.

Volt Cruelerz1 votes

yes, but now if you want to farm in a timely manner, you're not using Dark Matter, just Q.

Thryale1 votes

I don't use dark matter to farm...

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