But then refuse to help balance the game by creating class specific items, actually making these classes mean something because lets face it, calling champs like Zyra a catcher or Leblanc a kite mage or whatever the fuck isn't going to solve any of their problems, it's just useless fluff but the thing is it doesn't need to be. Tanks building support items, ADCs building bruiser items, these don't have to be problems.
KirotheImmortal15 votesThe objective is to have more clarification on how to play when someone gets a new champ. Just support implies that all they do is help. But not how. This also makes it impossible for champs to find alt builds. Ie Lulu. Lulu is a support. However if unable to build ad items you couldnt injoy the destructive attack speed Lulu.
HaIlMonitor4 votesI may be wrong, but I dont think the point of the op is to make it were lux cant build 
, but rather if an item is meant for a specific class have them be more like 
or even 
. Those items are split based on melee or ranged, so why couldnt an item like 
be "Enchanter only" for example. And 
be "Wardens only". I dont think the current items would be perfect for it, but it would fix the "Lets buff Bork for melee... oh crap all adc's are building it now"
Tobias Brackner8 votesBecause that would be really lame and constraining.
Also it'd be too much like HotS for my taste. One thing I like about League is the pool of items that allows for a larger breadth of options than something like HotS provides.
HaIlMonitor2 votesIs that a hyperbolic thought process though? How often does anyone except supports want to build , so why when making the item for a specific group is it actually a hinderince?
I never que for a game thinking, I am going to Be the redemption Twitch
It Hertz When IP1 votes
HaIlMonitor1 votesHe is op.
Glory ln Death3 votesRestricting items by class would mean that no champion could do anything outside of its class. There would be no diversity for champions, and Riot would be enforcing a specific meta and playstyle on the game.
What about champions who don't really fit in any category, or champions who have qualities of 2 or 3? What about champions who have lots of build options and playstyles right now, like Sion? Vanguard Sion would be the only option for him. No more Juggernaut Sion, or AD Sion, or AP Sion, or Enchanter Sion, or Warden Support Sion, etc.
Riot does not, and will not, make items role-specific or even champion-specific because it ruins diversity and restricts innovation and experimentation by players.
HaIlMonitor1 votesRiot does not, and will not, make items role-specific or even champion-specific because it ruins diversity and restricts innovation and experimentation by players.
Then they nerf/change everyone that isnt played how they want see: 
Voluug131 votesI could prefer something slightly ''late and constraining'' that items being useless for intended champions because adcs are abusing them again or their intended itemization sucks.
Tobias Brackner1 votesUh, you know that in the grand scheme of things, such items are really rare. You also know that Riot is going through and balancing the items in ways for them to work for their intended users.
Also I'm pretty sure that Black Cleaver is a garbage item for Marksmen. I think this is another case of people investing in short-term gains because no one knows how to stop early aggression.
Xion The XIV1 votesBut then we have the problem of Machine Gun Lulu never being a thing anymore. Or Attack Speed Braum never happening again. Some of the best builds are on champions that it should not be on.
HaIlMonitor1 votesThat isnt what would happen unless they made all items for specific things. By no means should they make items totally restrictive, but in some ways having things like 
melee only it wouldnt have gotten nerfed, because it was used by range champs that made it too broken. The point is to allow every class to have items that make them unique and strong, with out being hindered by others.
Xion The XIV1 votesThat isnt what would happen unless they made all items for specific things. By no means should they make items totally restrictive, but in some ways having things like
I think that is the main problem with this game. For some reason they do what is traditional in like 90% of other games. Where Ranged players are Naturally Weaker then Melee, because they have ranged. Ranged champions should be weaker because they can still farm/poke from a safer distance, while Range champions should be stronger, because they have the risk of getting in close. Even Call of Duty and other FPS have this type of logic with Guns taking multiple bullets to full clips while a Knife is a OHKO.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesTaking your example of Black Cleaver being melee only.... It would hinder champion developement as well. Think about Gnar.... ranged champion, yet Black Cleaver is actually totally intended to be bought by him.
Having all items available for every champion means that they can experiment. We already know that Urgot is getting reworked with the idea of him being the "ranged Juggernaut". He will probably be intended to buy Steraks, which is unlogical if they made it melee only like many people demanded in the past.
Voluug131 votesIt can be made an expection for Gnar. Its literally only 1-2 champion cases, and Gnar still isnt a marksmen when he goes melee.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesMaking exceptions would be counter intuitive.
You shouldn't slap a "melee only" tag on items and then have a handful exceptions of ranged characters who are able to use melee weapons.... it would just confuse people and would be illogical...
Voluug131 votesAbout 2 champions that can be either melee or ranged buy BC.
That isnt that big of an exception, people already have to search for a shitload of things like ability ratios. There are already tooltips of 2 paragraphs for one skill. Adding a ''Melee or melee convertible'' isnt illogical. Whats IS illogical? Continue letting adcs abuse items into nerfing because Blizz refuses to do small changes.
HaIlMonitor1 votesSee how 
works with items....
Chembaron Yamada1 votesRight now he works with them. If Black Cleaver, Ghostblade and many other items are becoming melee only like many people are suggesting in these boards, that will change alot.
And I am not a fan of slapping a melee only tag on something and then tell people that there is a list of ranged champions who are an exception of this rule.....
Terchio1 votesThing is, if is not at least relatively "enchanter only" without saying it, then either the item needs to fit the class better, or the class needs some viable stats to actually have something to build towards. The idea behind it is to give a support a huge zone to simply flip the teamfight in your favor, a major support boon. However, with all the intricacies of that active, it works much better on an initiator who doesn't have to predict where the fight will be, he just goes there, and on someone who can hold a fight to a particular spot.
Overall, needs to be redesigned to be more immediately effective so as to make it easier to land without initiating, and maybe some more. It's good on Enchanters, but feels so much better on Wardens and Vanguards. No need to make ADC only, just make the effect for the desired class, and if it's practical for them, they will buy it. If someone else is, chop where necessary. Specifically, attack speed tends to be more wasted on melee champs; the ones viable with usually hit a set amount of times before they're CC'd out of contention, or their AS is offset by the amount they're forced to run to catch up.
Also, how is ranged/melee only? I'm confused on that part...
HaIlMonitor1 votesAlso, how is
My bad, I thought they did the change were it did 8% for melee, 4% for range autos. But they just did an overall nerf on it.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku12 votesTanks building support items
Tank is a class, support is a role.
Have a good day
Stephen The G2 votesaccording to riot support is a class, check the client. wait don't i got you. http://prntscr.com/fo5m5c
SSJTribe1 votesThat literally says role select.
Stephen The G1 votesYes but you know thats not what they mean its grouped with Assassin,fighter,marksmen and those are not roles they are classes.
Karn Bishop7 votesThey don't need to make class specific items restricted, they just need to stop fucking biasing other classes gear to be super beneficial to ADC, i.e no reason for 
to not have small penaltys for ranged users like 
does.
They also need to stop gimping class items to benefit adc, 
should be god like in this meta yet nobody builds it due to how shitty the stats are compared to support hp items or even straight up flat hp items.
ModKnightsKemplar4 votesI'm wondering what exactly you are proposing, because if you are proposing locking items for classes, it would ruin a lot of what's fun about this game to people.
Jungle Karthus is fun. Taric top lane is fun. Anivia support is fun. I saw Ahri adc work on ARAM the other day.
If Riot starts locking items, I'm afraid this game would lose a lot of charm for me. There's something interesting about the theorycrafting of the game; there's something engaging about watching the patch notes and seeing what solutions they come up with for these problems.
If Riot takes that away, this game loses what makes it interesting. I know, and agree, that the balance is often frustrating, but it's also what keeps me coming back. This game is built on that idea, and I think it's working more often than not. Is it perfect? No. No it isn't.
However, that doesn't mean that we have to swing to the other extreme. Locking items into certain classes is a pretty extreme solution to what is ultimately a somewhat fun problem, imo.
They aren't really obsessed with classifications. They are trying to categorize the champions in a way that allows them to think about these problems differently, and there isn't a reason to hate on that, imo. It's a step forward; I love what they've done with mana scaling on enchanters, and I think they are starting to figure out a way to make tank supports more engaging, too. It's not an immediate process, and that's probably a good thing for the longevity of the game. The constant meta shifts keep things fresh, and I'd rather have that than a stale game with a set meta that never changed.
Succubús GF3 votesBut locking items like to melee only, kinda like they made ranged only, would just make sense and stop prblems like lethality. Lethality got nerfed bc adcs were abusing the HELL out of it bc riot didn't make it melee only.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesI don't agree with Black Cleaver being melee only, mainly because it's been available to champs who use it well (not abuse it) like Miss Fortune for a long time.
Lethality being melee only, on the other hand, would certainly be interesting... I could get behind that. They'd certainly have to take a look at Jhin and Miss Fortune (and Quinn), but I think that could work.
Bârd2 votesThat's because we aren't fucking Smite.
Catastrop3 votesSmite still manages to be diverse and balanced in itemization despite literally damage locking items based on Gods. That alone cuts down on abuse cases because there are none to begin with.
Bârd1 votesNo item abuse cases, but also no innovation.
More innovation is worth the risk of item abuse.
Just look at the rest of the genre.
Dota has very high variety in its itemization; the phrase "Anything can work" is a HUGE meme in that community, but its fucking TRUE. Hell, you can pick Sniper (Caitlyn equivalent) and build him such that he fills the role of a single target burst mage. Such huge amounts of room for innovation are what make that game great.
League has less room for innovation, largely because the champions are more locked into specific roles and the items are simpler. RIot has been lowering the number of off builds, but there's still plenty of room for fresh ideas. Proxy Tryndamere with Dark Seal going 2/12 and still being a threat. Support Kayle top with Yi jungle running it down top nonstop from 10 minutes in. Mid Bard going a heal amp build and surprising the enemy team by healing his Fiora for 2k health with three shrines in a bush. Support MF. Mordekaiser deathball-hyperpush strats. Taric and Heimerdinger bot. Finding new shit to do makes this game fun.
The restrictions on Smite's itemization are a huge problem with the game. The way the game actively discourages innovation just takes a huge amount of depth out of the game.
50000000000000001 votesThey do class updates and make items designed for specific classes
Warlord Scrap6 votesThey do class updates and make items designed for specific classes
Designed. I believe the op is implying actual class specific items. Similiar to how hydra is melee only and hurricane is ranged only.
Big Lincoln8 voteswhich would be awful
HaIlMonitor6 votesHow so? Doesn't it bother you that they nerf an item like meant for Juggernauts being nerfed because of adc's a few patches ago?
Big Lincoln8 votesbecause most classes aren't -- or shouldn't be -- cut and paste with the exact same itemization, and dipping into another set of items is what allows for off-builds in the first place
Doesn't it bother you that they nerf an item like
cleaver is heinously overpowered and I think it holds back the juggernauts who rely on it, if anything. no, i'm not upset about it being nerfed
HaIlMonitor7 votesThey dont need to be cut and paste, the point is that if an item is only broken because of ADC's ... then why punish the melee champs that all play it.
They already do it so making more items that way wouldnt ruin anything, and everything is already cut and paste because some items are stronger then others, that is a dumb argument when each class could have cool items. It also helps balance the game, why do you think they changed GA to have AD? So mages/tanks dont want to build it.
Also for the record, I dont think that all items should be, or honestly can be changed that way, but I also dont agree with nerfing everything because they want to change something to help a group, but another one adopts it and become op.
NineTailedMystic1 votesThey would be copy and paste without making a plethora of items for every class.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesThey dont need to be cut and paste, the point is that if an item is only broken because of ADC's ... then why punish the melee champs that all play it.
I totaly agree
It also helps balance the game, why do you think they changed GA to have AD? So mages/tanks dont want to build it.
I don't agree. They changed GA because AD champs had nothing against AD damage unless using Tank items. And killing a carry was harder with old GA for no reason.... its still hard but its not due to GA.
Tank were already a pain in *$$ to kill... I don't understand why they would need a second life ( yeah atm all class feel squishy against adc, but this isn't subject).
Mage already have plenty item to save their *$$ when they misplace themself 
. And this, without losing AP.
has only 40 AD, if AD (not only adc) go for this option they delay their spike or sacrifice it for higher damage item.
Also for the record, I dont think that all items should be, or honestly can be changed that way, but I also dont agree with nerfing everything because they want to change something to help a group, but another one adopts it and become op.
The best option (no need to say IMO) is to halved bonus for ranged ( ...)
HaIlMonitor1 votesI don't agree. They changed GA because AD champs had nothing against AD damage unless using Tank items. And killing a carry was harder with old GA for no reason.... its still hard but its not due to GA.
GA used to have armor and MR??? Not sure what you mean.
V7.9 NEW RECIPE: B. F. Sword item.png B. F. Sword + Cloth Armor item.png Cloth Armor + Gold 800 = Gold 2400 OLD RECIPE: Negatron Cloak item.png Negatron Cloak + Chain Vest item.png Chain Vest + Gold 880 = Gold 2400 Attack damage increased to 40 from 0. Armor reduced to 30 from 60. Magic resistance reduced to 0 from 45. Revive healing changed to 50% of base health from 700 health or 30% maximum health.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesyeah i know. But AD champ were the only class to not have an item purely against AD damage. It was harder to kill carry with old GA, because they were tankier.
Smitty Manjensen2 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVrFc3AJ,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-25T20:15:22.819+0000)
because most classes aren't -- or shouldn't be -- cut and paste with the exact same itemization, and dipping into another set of items is what allows for off-builds in the first place
cleaver is heinously overpowered and I think it holds back the juggernauts who rely on it, if anything. no, i'm not upset about it being nerfed
Heinously overpowered on juggernauts? You have no idea what you're talking about.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votescleaver is heinously overpowered and** I think it holds back the juggernauts** who rely on it, if anything
What do u mean ?
Automated Riven1 votesBecause black cleaver is so stupidly strong. It forces all juggernauts to buy it. And in addition to that multiple other items have been nerfed and/or cant be strong on juggernauts because it would make the class too strong. Also based on the stats that cleaver gives it makes it so that some nice buffs would end up being too strong even tho the champion itself would benefit from the buff in a world where cleaver didnt exist.
Skias1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVrFc3AJ,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-25T20:15:22.819+0000)
because most classes aren't -- or shouldn't be -- cut and paste with the exact same itemization, and dipping into another set of items is what allows for off-builds in the first place
cleaver is heinously overpowered and I think it holds back the juggernauts who rely on it, if anything. no, i'm not upset about it being nerfed
Funny part is, its still OP even after nerfs. Giving CDR, awesome movement speed, hp, damage and pen is a great stat spread and far too efficient.
Big Lincoln2 votesnerfing it would completely dumpster a giant chunk of bruisers which is the problem
because riot in their infinite wisdom made it so that a lot of them can only go 1 dmg item into full tank, because anything else is too squishy, so cleaver HAS to be a strong item to pick up the slack
Automated Riven1 votesI feel like lowering damage and buffing tank stats would go a long way to making that better.
Voluug131 votesWho is saying that? All you have to do is make the problematic items like BC an BotRK melee/melee convertible only.
No one is saying ''make ALL items class specific'', since the few abuse cases are clearly defined.
Also lets be honest this game isnt know for their realistic item build diversity either.
Automated Riven1 votesAgreed. I am sick and tired of being forced to build black cleaver if I want to play the game seriously. I am all for it being an option but I think its needs some work.
