Annie's ult on death is a better zombie than Sion ever will be

Nomad Sol·May 25, 2017·125 votes·4,139 views

Why did you implement this needless frustrating change to her ult

128 Comments

Hexs FortuneMay 25, 201736 votes

TIbbers can tend to linger for a bit too long after annie dies.

RalanrMay 25, 201753 votes

That and Tibbers isn't slow.

Weasel KenseiMay 26, 20178 votes

Yeah SIon is a classic Romero zombie, and Tibbers is a fast 28 Days Later ~~zombie~~ bear.

RainbowIceeMay 26, 20175 votes

problem is that Zombie Sion has a spawn delay and he decays insanely quick. I can't even farm a few minions before it dies off. While annie's is instant and get's a buff for annie dying.

Eternal TormentMay 25, 201732 votes

because before she had way too much instant burst and her tibbers was pretty much a minion, you only summoned him for the initial burst upon cast and then he would just stand there as a decoration. the change was necessary to make tibbers anyhow useful.

Packun FlowerMay 25, 20172 votes

Annies kit has a crazy ammount of bugs with it since her rework. Bugs thst were reported and blatently ignored by Riot.

The only thing thats stopping her from being a reletivly good champ is her broken kit, and really almost all her bugs revolve around Tibbers which makes it even worse.

FairyfleurMay 25, 201730 votes

The only thing stopping her from being good is her range, not bugs.

LyingOnLineMay 25, 20179 votes

Nothing is stopping her from being good. Have you seen her stats midlane?

CattleistMay 25, 20172 votes

Her stats can be the highest in the game, but it doesn't do jack if she cant reach you to use those stats. Flash is 5 minute cd

LyingOnLineMay 25, 201711 votes

I'm talking about these stats, derplord.

Zach xDMay 26, 20171 votes

52% win rate on a sub 3% playrate?

LyingOnLineMay 26, 20174 votes

Closer to 53%, but yeah, basically.

Sp33d Zer0May 26, 20173 votes

Summoner spell CDR in the talent tree and on lucidity, and a protobelt.

Zach xDMay 26, 20173 votes

Going down the resolve tree reduces damage dramatically, lucidity vs sorc shoes reduces damage dramatically, and compared to actual full ap items, protobelt reduces damage dramatically. These trade off being able to close the gap, but at the cost of your burst.

There is a build where you can run protobelt/rylais and be a bit more durable and kill people, but it's nowhere near as bursty as a build that runs Ludens/Void/Deathcap; it's more to play as a disruptor/counter-engager while dealing moderate damage, but it's harder to solo carry games with this build.

If your lane opponent has any knowledge of the game, they're going to buy MR. Their tanks will most likely pick up MR as well. You depend on the Magic Penetration from Void Staff and Boots of Sorcery to maintain your relevance throughout the game from a damage perspective.

I personally prefer first item Ludens. Movement speed is such an important stat for her.

KàyleMay 25, 20173 votes

Broken kit, and annie don't deserve to be in the same sentence. She relies on flash. and you can easily cuck her with banshees. She has no range, and you can Qss her stun.

Zach xDMay 26, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Broken kit, and annie don't deserve to be in the same sentence. She relies on flash. and you can easily cuck her with banshees. She has no range, and you can Qss her stun.

Definitely true. She's definitely unfair to people who don't understand the answers, but one of the easiest to answer when they do.

That being said, against banshees, you can often engage with 3 stacks. Flash W R, or R W; you'll still stun the crowd near instantaneously. QSS isn't usually a problem either; the champions that need to buy it usually can't survive the damage from the spell that initially stunned them, and by the time they react to hit QSS, they probably still end up dying. Obviously though, these require the stars to align, and definitely makes her job harder.

KàyleMay 26, 20172 votes

I don't understand why i'm being downvoted. It's exactly true though. She has one answer to one issue, and those issues can be played against.

I main ADC and top, so i'm more into those sorts of things. As marksmen, you have to position back enough so that she's forced to use her engage on the front. You have a certain amount of options even if she does have proto-belt flash zhonyas. As Kayle, the moment i have QSS / Wits end is the moment she can't ever fight me. Kayles not a back line adc, but more of a middle line fighter because of the burst healing and ulti. I've never had any problems with her on ADC, as an ADCI could always build Scimitar, Death's Dance, Hex Drinker, etc.

She certainly has a good amount of strengths, but she's way too easily played around. I don't understand this circlejerk, low elo people pick the weirdest things to be op.

Eternal TormentMay 25, 20177 votes

your Name says Annie main

but your experience says Annie first timer :/

An Undead bratMay 25, 20173 votes

Ok this one was actually good

48983507DEL1May 26, 20172 votes

Useful and thematic and also providing more counterplay.

EedatMay 25, 201718 votes

Clearly you have never built item 3022 item 3142 item 3009 on Sion kappa

SpoofghoulMay 25, 20175 votes

why stop there

item 3009 item 3153 item 3142 item 3071 item 3022 item 3800 + stormraiders surge

Sion full on zombie tilt slow enemies by 75-25% and gain 75% + 40% + 25% + 20% movement

You will easily be anywhere from 2 to 8 times faster then your opponent

Asayake 5150glowMay 25, 20173 votes

{quoted}

why stop there

+ stormraiders surge

full on zombie tilt slow enemies by 75-25% and gain 75% + 40% + 25% + 20% movement

You will easily be anywhere from 2 to 8 times faster then your opponent

Tforce over Cleaver for maximum speed, Tforce gives 5% movespeed as well as phage.

SpoofghoulMay 25, 20174 votes

perhaps but after all the speedboosts happen you will run around with like 700 movement anyway

meanwhile with the slows and movement steals your enemies have like what 100-200 movespeed

at that point that 5% isn't relevant anymore but the armorshred is

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 26, 20173 votes

item 3078 item 3022 item 3812 + stormraider.

Mig89May 25, 201713 votes

Comparing an ultimate minion to a passive the usually lets you grab a kill or two when you die in a teamfight...

Asayake 5150glowMay 25, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Comparing an ultimate minion to a passive the usually lets you grab a kill or two when you die in a teamfight...

It's an ultimate minion, but it's an ult that is mainly used for the burst. Hell Tibbers is stronger than Daisy in most situations since Daisy's CC's is delayed, and Ivern doesn't get huge damage from summoning Daisy.

Also Sion's passive will never get him a kill during a teamfight. The most it'll ever do is slap/kill someone who didn't pay attention, or if you're building Lethality against someone low range, you can sometimes kill them too.

ModAcademy KaynMay 25, 20174 votes

Tibber's used to have a lot more Burst, and Annie used to be a lot less fun to lane against. They decided to shove off power from the Burst to Tibber's himself, something that can actually be stopped.

You don't play Sion if you think his Ult is meant to kill someone during a teamfight. His entire kit is disruption, if the enemy focuses him down early in the fight, enemies now have to deal with a Sion and the rest of the team. If he dies later in the fight, he's been soaking damage and laying down CC.

In laning, the Passive might net you a kill during a gank, or an extremely close trade, but no passive should garentee an enemies death for fighting them.

Asayake 5150glowMay 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8vIWG3r,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2017-05-25T22:01:05.029+0000)

Tibber's used to have a lot more Burst, and Annie used to be a lot less fun to lane against. They decided to shove off power from the Burst to Tibber's himself, something that can actually be stopped.

Weird, she still oneshots the same way...

You don't play Sion if you think his Ult is meant to kill someone during a teamfight. His entire kit is disruption, if the enemy focuses him down early in the fight, enemies now have to deal with a Sion and the rest of the team. If he dies later in the fight, he's been soaking damage and laying down CC.

I meant passive, oops.

In laning, the Passive might net you a kill during a gank, or an extremely close trade, but no passive should garentee an enemies death for fighting them.

Yeah, except usually the most it does is zone them from the minion wave for a few seconds and get you a few extra CS.

ModAcademy KaynMay 25, 20172 votes

She oneshots late game, but early game, she lost a lot of burst. Late game, it's meant to let Annie contribute more than just initial burst, due to her low range.

I think I meant passive too...woops.

So? A passive being strong and weak in certain circumstances isn't a new thing. Sion already has a powerful kit, so him having a situational passive isn't like it's hurting him. It's great in teamfights, where people can't focus on escaping, and less so in lane. Nothing is wrong with that.

Asayake 5150glowMay 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8vIWG3r,comment-id=00060000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-25T23:31:04.455+0000)

She oneshots late game, but early game, she lost a lot of burst. Late game, it's meant to let Annie contribute more than just initial burst, due to her low range.

Eh... she still oneshots earlygame, but it's survivable with barrier+negatron. Also Annie's Q has a plenty low CD for her to contribute DPS to a reasonable level (reasonable as in considering her targeted burst+cc)

I think I meant passive too...woops.

So? A passive being strong and weak in certain circumstances isn't a new thing. Sion already has a powerful kit, so him having a situational passive isn't like it's hurting him. It's great in teamfights, where people can't focus on escaping, and less so in lane. Nothing is wrong with that.

Yeah, but Tibbers is annoying as fuck. And Sion passive actually just sucks, period, even in teamfights.

ModAcademy KaynMay 26, 20172 votes

Then you don't play Sion. His passive is meant for disruptions, not killing. The damage from his passive is meant to discourage just face tanking him.

And no, she can't one shot early game. Q does 150 at level 3, W does 70, and Tibbers summon alone does 150, so you deal 370 damage with Base damages alone at level 6, if we use Annie's Base health (813) as the example, that's not even half someone's health. Even with one item, she can't double her damage to kill them. Early game, Tibbers is actually needed in the killing, or she needs to poke her target. At level 9, she gets 70 damage more, but now base health is 1000.

Do some math.

48983507DEL1May 26, 20172 votes

Wrong, it WAS mainly used for burst damage. That's why they reworked her.

Zach xDMay 26, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8vIWG3r,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-05-25T20:20:15.500+0000)

It's an ultimate minion, but it's an ult that is mainly used for the burst. Hell Tibbers is stronger than Daisy in most situations since Daisy's CC's is delayed, and Ivern doesn't get huge damage from summoning Daisy.

Also Sion's passive will never get him a kill during a teamfight. The most it'll ever do is slap/kill someone who didn't pay attention, or if you're building Lethality against someone low range, you can sometimes kill them too.

Tibbers has no CC; Daisy can disrupt multiple people with the knock-up.

Daisy's health, attack damage, armor, and magic resist all scale off of Ivern's AP.

Tibbers lasts 45 seconds, Daisy lasts for 60.

Daisy also has a base 419 movement speed, which is faster than most squishy champions even with completed boots. It also automatically takes the Rootcaller dash if you order an auto attack while the target is rooted. A large portion of Ivern's fighting potential IS in Daisy. He can solo epic monsters with it, it can disrupt entire teams. You auto-win 2v2's with it. It's hard to peel off because of it's speed and disruption, but Ivern is also going to be slamming Triggerseeds on it like every 3 seconds..

Annie doesn't play like Ivern. He's not a burst mage, she's not a utility jungler. It IS safe to say that stand alone that Daisy brings more to Ivern than Tibbers brings to Annie, but that doesn't make the respective champions as a whole better than one another.

Shuyin178May 25, 201710 votes

Sion + rushed Frozen Mallet Enjoy that annoyance.

Glory ln DeathMay 25, 20176 votes

You have to be able to hit someone for Frozen Mallet to do anything.

Shuyin178May 25, 20173 votes

And the second you do hit them they might as well not even try running because it's to late for them unless they have a good movement spell.

Glory ln DeathMay 25, 20173 votes

Except, again, you have to be able to hit them in the first place. Which is only really going to happen in the middle of a teamfight or if an ally locks them down. In which case, you don't even need the slow.

Shuyin178May 25, 20172 votes

You act like there aren't helmet wearing people that play this game. There are plenty of people to easily kill using this combo.

lolipopevelynnMay 25, 20176 votes

people saying annie is broken while ahri is running around free and immune to any kind of nerfs. F.U.C.K O.F.F.

BarbaJhiniMay 25, 201744 votes

she is actually getting nerfed next patch lol.

Fallen ArtemisMay 25, 201716 votes

What does F.U.C.K O.F.F. stand for exactly? Its an acronym so it must mean something..

EcchiOtakuTMMay 25, 201721 votes

Free Ulcer Can Kill Off F***able Foes?

Holy shxt, that made more sense than I thought it would.

RalanrMay 25, 201712 votes

By the gods, it all makes sense now.

EcchiOtakuTMMay 25, 20173 votes

LMFAO BY THE GODS

omfg I fell out my seat laughing wtf xD

rtbf225618241May 26, 20172 votes

By Ysgramor!

Fallen ArtemisMay 26, 20172 votes

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

58697132DEL1May 25, 20175 votes

thats cause Tibbers is AI and Sion is held back by the heavy weight known as a "player"

ModAcademy KaynMay 25, 20173 votes

Damn, it's almost like Ults are more powerful than Passives or something.

SociopathFriendMay 26, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dora Bora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c8vIWG3r,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-25T13:51:30.718+0000)

Why did you implement this needless frustrating change to her ult

To be fair, it doesn't do nearly the damage Sion will IF he catches you.