top is the definition of win lane, lose game right now

Critmaster Garen·Jan 25, 2017·4 votes·2,772 views

fighting a generally even lane? finally getting ahead of your opponent and a headstart?

doesnt matter, your bot lane + jungler is already 0/15 or 15/0 and either pushed back to their inhib turret or pushed up to the enemies.

if youre not 6/0 with a 50 cs lead at 10 minutes on top and start hard carrying, then fuck you. because youre not going to matter this game.

nerfing teleport and then putting a dozen objectives down there so the esports crowd doesnt have to watch lane swaps. thanks riot.

can we finally adress the terrible state this game is in? and im not just talking about nerfing jungle xp, because that wont stop the constant fighting down there, and win or loss on bot lane being the deciding factor to win the game.

18 Comments

Big LincolnJan 25, 20173 votes

tbh we should just inject juggernauts into the top lane meta

if we're gonna be shit worthless we might as well get to have fun

SGT Dingle BerryJan 25, 20172 votes

People that actually go tanky top bring plenty to the table.

Critmaster GarenJan 25, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=SGT Dingle Berry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uU7IXELT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-25T01:45:19.445+0000)

People that actually go tanky top bring plenty to the table.

theyre just "win more" champions. when your bot lane is fed, theyre good at walling them off and helping to close out the game, but theyre not going to stop the snowball against their own team.

Handy Sandy Jan 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uU7IXELT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-25T01:46:24.244+0000)

theyre just "win more" champions. when your bot lane is fed, theyre good at walling them off and helping to close out the game, but theyre not going to stop the snowball against their own team.

How does an adc fight an enemy team without a frontline tank or bruiser that dives the enemy team and kills 3 people/shuts down carries?

Darius Garen Fiora Irelia Illaoi Jayce Kennen Riven

Critmaster GarenJan 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chroma Spell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uU7IXELT,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-25T01:49:12.955+0000)

How does an adc fight an enemy team without a frontline tank or bruiser that dives the enemy team and kills 3 people/shuts down carries?

if hes ahead, he just 2 shots them. because in this meta 3 people on your team are ahead by like 10 kills at 15 minutes.

if hes behind, it doesnt matter, because hes behind by 10 kills at 15 minutes.

the problem is really that top laners right now are only there to join their team to close out the game, when the team is already winning. when behind, the team is usually so far behind that nothing you do can save the game.

and you dont have any impact on if your team gets ahead or falls behind at all. because youre too far away from those 4 man clusterfucks down there.

Handy Sandy Jan 25, 20171 votes

Illaoi doesn't need kills to do damage, just her tenticals. Kennen's ult alone + zhonya's will turn a teamfight around since the cc, even if he isn't fed utility never falls off. As long as riven/irelia/jayce are farmed, they'll do damage.

Critmaster GarenJan 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chroma Spell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uU7IXELT,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-25T02:02:57.194+0000)

Illaoi doesn't need kills to do damage, just her tenticals.

illaoi is trash out of lane. she isnt even good in lane unless against other immobile melees.

Kennen's ult alone + zhonya's will turn a teamfight around since the cc, even if he isn't fed utility never falls off. As long as riven/irelia/jayce are farmed, they'll do damage.

it still doesnt change the situation where the top lane is basically a second support. if your team is behind theyre so far behind, that you still cant win teamfights. no matter how you performed in lane. unless youre snowballing into the absurd within the first couple of minutes. and thats not possible every game. most lanes will end up with one guy slightly ahead, but mostly even. in this scenario you are going to lose no matter what you do.

if your team is ahead. well. like i said. "win more" champions.

Spicy RiceJan 25, 20172 votes

The only time kennel ult turns around teamfights, is when the fight was already close to begin with

woodvsmurphJan 25, 20172 votes

yeah the most you can do to stop the snowball is go in, soak a ton of damage, and let your team escape without dying but pick up no kills and concede an objective. yay tanks

woodvsmurphJan 25, 20171 votes

yeah if your bot fed because they perma shoved without warding, never backed off when they were pinged ganks incoming, etc. being a huge toplane tank just means you take longer to die while having 0 chance to kill anyone. You can't split push either because you will get 3 man ganked while rest of time hides under their inner or inhib tower not pushing in a 4v2 because NOW finally they decide to listen to your 20 earlier requests to play safe... kinda too late. Sorry but adc's have had too much influence (in a bad way) on the game this season -- either they hit 6 items and hard carry one team or they feed so hard early by not respecting the enemy team's damage and cc that you can't survive the enemy team's burst as a 3/0/0 toplane bruiser who was camped by the enemy jungler, got 0 help from team, and STILL are 3/0/0. Team rages when you don't group even if you give them a 4v3 and just ask them to hold tower while you 1v2 win top. You group, team either doesn't follow up on your engage, or you die in 2.0 sec after bursting an enemy carry to half hp and being perma-stunned by enemy chain cc. Good thing your team followed up with all their aoe damage when the enemy had 4 people clustered around you lol. I mean not every game is like this, but way too many games this is what the top laner gets to deal with while boards are full of people complaining tanks/bruisers too strong. And all the while kha, rengar mains rejoice because no one whines about how busted they are -- strongest assassins in the game with the tankiness of a bruiser/tank while building 1 defensive item max.

PermabannedGarenJan 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=SGT Dingle Berry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uU7IXELT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-25T01:45:19.445+0000)

People that actually go tanky top bring plenty to the table.

God forbid someone want to play anything but a fucking tank top lane, right? Fuck them, they deserve to lose.

woodvsmurphJan 25, 20171 votes

you forgot one thing -- you are becoming even less useful top because they nerf everything having to do with tanks and bruisers to please the whiny baby adc's. I honestly wonder how much everything would change if they swapped drag to baron pit and baron/rift herald to drag pit. Bot laners go top? Bot takes tp and top takes ignite/heal/exhaust? Everyone ganks top and doublelift ff til 35 min, then kills enemy nexus while his team loses a 4v5 to win the game? Who knows.

Asayake 5150glowJan 25, 20171 votes

Then start getting 6/0 and 50 cs leads.

Fiora helps. Snowballs super hard.

LauchmelderJan 25, 20171 votes

Tell that to the Garen that obliterated my toplane and got so insanely tanky that I was the only one doing significant damage to him as Cassiopeia while he could just hit me for true damage.

Critmaster GarenJan 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uU7IXELT,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-01-25T02:49:05.388+0000)

Tell that to the Garen that obliterated my toplane and got so insanely tanky that I was the only one doing significant damage to him as Cassiopeia while he could just hit me for true damage.

and how many times does that actually happen above gold?

the problem is, you have to be able to consistently do this every single game right now if you want to get anywhere. just going even or getting slightly ahead is most of the time not enough anymore.