"We're increasing the burst windows for Assassins for counterplay"

He wouldn't one shot you with his 4th auto, at least not any more than one of his normal autos critting. The only thing his 4th shot does is guarantee a crit and do bonus damage based on the target's missing hp. So the 4th shot will never one shot you from full hp, unless you would also be one shot by one of his basic autos on a crit.

yeah late game in team fights good luck killing jhin. snares the assassin and one shots them,

A good Jhin's burst doesn't typically come from the fourth shot anyway. Jhin can use animation cancelling to cram a fuckton of spells and an auto attack into a small window.

Yeah let's give Caitlyn that Annie bar so we can look at her headshot counter.. would be nice.

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It made a little more sense thematically, Considering that Cait is suppose to be a Sniper, and Jhin really is a sniper.

I really think Riot is trying to say that Sustain DPS is only a General guideline, and not a hard rule. If it was a hard rule, we would probably end up with fewer ADC, and they would be less unique.

Yes, and although there may be a little variation, it should never be to the point where something literally becomes a ranged assassin

Otherwise they would be assassins and not classified as ADCs, and should be dealt with accordingly.

Juggernauts aren't supposed to have mobility, garen has a speed boost, but that's moderate. The guidelines are still there for a reason.

hi

I have my ways "ways"

Nice eyeballs you've got there, Vayne. It'd be a shame if anything happened to them.

You can't hit what you can't see

Incorrect on Draven. The additional damage he gets from his spinning axes cannot crit. Not sure about jinx.

The idea behind her max health true damage is that you're supposed to play, not build against it. That much is fine, but the larger issue is that she doesn't really have the counterplay to justify that advantage right now. Part of the intent behind her W is that she's meant to kill enemies through sustained DPS, but as you and OP mentioned, she's capable of killing squishier enemies in a single three-hit sequence. The other intent is that she's supposed to be putting herself at constant risk in combat, since she has no long-ranged abilities, but she has enough mobility, plus stealth during her ult, to dodge a lot of stuff and kite melee opponents, and chase them to the point where it's often too difficult to escape her.

In the end, she can be shut down, since she's pretty weak in lane (versus other marksmen, anyway), and she doesn't actually do that well in teamfights unless she has a ton of protection and/or the enemy team is too disorganized to focus her, but power curves aren't really moment-to-moment counterplay, and "team focus" can be cited as counterplay for literally any champion. It's okay for her to be a good duelist, but she of all marksmen should not be allowed to deal an assassin rotation's worth of damage in three hits or less.

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The way you counter it is NOT LET THE GAME GO TO FULL BUILD TIME. You should be finishing the game before it gets to 35 min mark, or focus the ADC in teamfights.

I mention both of these arguments. As said before, power curves do not represent moment-to-moment counterplay, and "focusing X in teamfights" is counterplay that can be applied to literally anyone, no matter what counterplay they actually have. It's alright for champions to be particularly strong at a certain stage of the game, but not to the point where they offer no outplay options.

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So all you need to do is focus that ADC in a fight or have ONE assassin focus it in a fight and you win.

You are defining the win condition of a fight as killing the enemy marksman. That in itself is an indicator that the game might revolve a little too much around marksmen.

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Sure they are somewhat undodge-able but they have to be in the right position. No other class has so much positioning they need to do constantly to maintain DPS or survive-ability.

Every class needs to be "in the right position". In fact, arguably the majority of champions have to worry more about positioning than marksmen, because whereas marksmen have the safety of range, most melee champions have to deal with incoming attacks and abilities the moment they are being launched at point-blank range. Assassins are even getting a new item specifically designed to let them avoid getting chunked from random incoming fire once they position themselves in the middle of the enemy team. The only factor that would make marksmen more reliant on positioning is that everyone on the enemy team tries to focus them... which then again begs the question as to why they would go out of their way just to kill a member of one particular class as fast as possible.

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The only thing not healthy about the ADC class is its NEED for peel, its NEED for hard CC, its NEED for total protection.

So... you want marksmen to have more self-sufficiency on top of the top-tier damage they have now? Don't you think that would be a little overkill?

I mean, in other circumstances, it would probably be a very good idea to give some marksmen more tools to survive attacks, but not when they can output the damage they possess right now. It's also worth noting that several marksmen absolutely do not need any more self-peel. Kindred and Kalista are both excellent examples of marksmen who had all of the self-peel they could ask for, and the end result is that they had (and still have, in Kalista's case), very little counterplay in matchups versus melee champions, and in some cases gave those champions literally no opportunity to fight back. Again, many other champions have damage that is a) weaker, b) less reliable and c) not accompanied by any major form of safety, as is the case for most mages or assassins, classes also meant to specialize in damage, yet the only time they're criticized for their lack of self-sufficiency is when compared with marksmen, who typically already fare much better.