Jarvan has been nerfed and Vi has nerfs on PBE

Akali is SO HOT·Feb 28, 2015·217 votes·11,172 views

http://i.imgur.com/y1u3OZ1.gif

119 Comments

junglerboy16Feb 28, 2015107 votes

Nidalee also has nerf up, so Lee has more of the spotlight.

And then you notice that they have Nautilus buffs, and Skarner buffs, and Xin Zhao buffs, and Volibear buffs, and Gragas buffs, and Zac buffs, and buffs to the tank jungle item, and... hey, wait a minute, DID RIOT ACTUALLY JUST BUFF THE WEAK JUNGLERS THIS TIME?!?!?

TL;DR: Lee Sin felt Philanthropic and donated some of his strength to weak junglers by robbing it from the strong, he is a true robin hood and should be venerated forever onwar— oh wait, he already is LOL.

MrBuffingtonFeb 28, 201519 votes

Okay, I feel kind of stupid; I don't actually play Nautilus, and from what I understand, you max your W first (which seems to have gotten nerfed). I realize his E is now spammable, but I'm not really seeing how this is much of a buff overall; again, maybe I'm just being stupid, but would you mind explaining to me?

EDIT: So been reading around, apparently being reliant on your W is a bad thing for Nautilus but something he was sort of forced into because his E was inefficient, which it now is spammable? So overall buff, I suppose

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20158 votes

Basically, the way that they changed his shield's scalings a few patches back, it is generally really weak to max it first (better as second right now) because it scales with max health and ramps up fine by buying items, but a lot weaker than it used to be when maxed early. E is about twice as spammable now and has more consistent damage output than his W (which doesn't give any damage once the shield breaks). So basically, yes, they made it so Nautilus has damage even once his shield breaks, just not as directly as everyone thought they would, and ultimately this will help out his early-mid game immensely by boosting his clear speed and DPS early while his shield is weak, where late game his shield scales hard enough to make him look to be a real powerhouse in team fights. He almost looks more like an AP bruiser in terms of damage than a pure tank except for his ridiculous CC output.

MrBuffingtonFeb 28, 20156 votes

Aha, tank you for the explanation. Phreak senpai notice me :3

(that pun was legitimately initially an unintentional typo)

In all seriousness though, that's pretty cool, maybe I should start playing Naut, lol

Sire HippingtonFeb 28, 20153 votes

well, i played him on pbe, and while his clear and damage(which were quite underestimated already) is damn good, he just needs tons of mana now. Even with item 3110 + item 3025 i went oom nearly every bigger fight unless i had blue.

MrBuffingtonFeb 28, 20151 votes

item 3070 Naut inc? lol

Sire HippingtonFeb 28, 20153 votes

would probably leave you to vulnerable early/mid. Rather get a item 3174 later on, but not a great option either. We simply have to face the truth: most taks would be alot more viable if it wasn't for their manaproblems, and the itemization for mana-sustain on tanks simply does not exist...

WolfBVMar 1, 20151 votes

Would it be good of the tank upgrade to the machetes gave something like 0.5% missing mana region per 5 and got reduced by 50 hp or something like that?

Sire HippingtonMar 1, 20152 votes

nope, as sololane Tanks also have huge manaproblems(or aololane tanks would have manaproblems if saif problems wouldn't kinda preven them from sololaneing) I'd prefer mana-sustain on a general tankitem. I think item 3025 item 3024 item 3110 all could use a small buff anyway, so why not add a mana-sustain effeckt on them? Something like aborb 5 physical damage dealt to you and gain as much mana, so you not only recive less damage but also gain mana for tanking.

KevinDelMarrFeb 28, 20151 votes

You also need to recognize the importance of the new tank jungle item. While the nerf does impact his early game (you might just use E at level 1 and get a good leash), the jungle item per second is doing AoE damage around you all the time. This damage will match and eventually succeed what your shield would have been doing, it's always up where your shield isn't. So early game aside, it's a good buff. It more or less weakens his laning, but you weren't doing lane Naut that much (sorry lane Nauts), but hey, you can use your E a ton (mana costs could get crazy though).

They will probably buff the level 1 damage but keep the level 5 down.

WheatloafFeb 28, 20152 votes

Level 1 that E costs a measly 50 mana. Lane Naut may yet live.

End CreditsFeb 28, 20154 votes

I play a lot of Naut, even when he was weak. He still has a fairly healthy clear, but he's weak to invades from stronger Junglers. His W was always the priority, and them adding scaling helps a lot late. I haven't seen the new buffs, but his E was still incredibly important. It generally lands multiple hits as someone tries to escape. Any Naut buff has me excited, personally.

I'm a little sad that Lee is left alone constantly. I don't want to see him made useless, because he's a lot of fun, but his power level is certainly a bit out of hand and the public outcry is, what you'd think to be, hard to ignore, but somehow he's left alone.

Thresh Outta FuxFeb 28, 20157 votes

{quoted} Nautilus buffs

Naut's W is his bread and butter. The rest of his kit is fine, all that needs updating is his W.

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20155 votes

They tuned back the damage on his W (down to 15/30/45/60/75 from 40/55/70/85/100) and made E's (Riptide) cooldown only 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 seconds from 10, meaning that he doesn't need his shield to deal consistent damage anymore, which is in fact a MASSIVE buff. They also reduced the E's mana cost to 40/50/60/70/80 from 60/70/80/90/100, which is also a massive early game buff, all for trading away some of the AP ratio (like nautilus ever builds AP anyway).

KaisadiIIaFeb 28, 20153 votes

all for trading away some of the AP ratio (like nautilus ever builds AP anyway).

AP ratio down from 0.5 to 0.3. As you will be able to spam E every 4 seconds instead of 10, you will be doing 0.75 AP ratio over 10 seconds (mathematically speaking), so it's a flat buff to his AP ratio.

BTW, Nautilus often builds Abyssal and sometimes Rod of Ages, so yep, he gets ~150 AP from items.

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20151 votes

Wow, I forgot that, and in that case, this is EVEN MORE OF A BUFF THAN I THOUGHT!

Sire HippingtonFeb 28, 20152 votes

it's a rather huge nerf to his man though, the manacosts over 10 sec went from 100 to 200, and you really notice. And it isn't even a buff to his early mana, as you now NEED to use you E for camps(or trades in lane) and can't rely on only your W.

RikariFeb 28, 20153 votes

and Zac buffs

WHAT?!?!

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20151 votes

It's a pretty small one, but it's there. They increased the knock back duration on his E to 1 second from half a second. That and he will really love the new jungle enchantment that is replacing juggernaut,which boosts tank clear as well as bringing back % health multipliers.

Auz the RipperFeb 28, 20157 votes

that's not small it's over 100% increase in CC

huehue

LeeDarkFeb 28, 20152 votes

Doesn't matter. The biggest thing holding Tank junglers back is their complete inability to duel Lee Sin or succeed when he counterganks. When they meet in the jungle, they'll die, even with buffs. When Lee counterganks, it might as well be 2v1 in Lee's favor.

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20153 votes

Do you realize how much Lee sin absolutely sucks right now? I have not seen a Lee do anything useful in a match in MONTHS. They always try to invade and start feeding me kills. As full tank Sion jungle.

LeeDarkMar 1, 20151 votes

Do you realize how retarded that argument is? Or, to put it another way, are you dumb enough to commit logical fallacies without recognizing them?

Let's ignore the fact that nobody who is WAY BETTER THAN YOU, SCRUB, is picking Sion jungle over Lee Sin jungle. Let's even ignore the statistics. You would still be arguing based on your level 21 experience that Sion is stronger than Lee Sin. That's completely idiotic. GTFO.

junglerboy16Mar 1, 20151 votes

I'm sorry, you are absolutely correct that I made a faulty argument, however your Ad Hominem counter logic is far more flawed in that you assume several very important things about me. You assume I have little experience, when I have been playing this game for well over a year and a half. You take the fact that I made a hyperbole about Lee's current balance as grounds to assault me personally. You also default to insulting me instead of backing up your argument in any sound way. You have to realize that Lee sin is in fact much weaker than you claim he is, from a statistical and experiential perspective. You also assume that because Sion jungle is not a popular pick, that I am a n00b because of my personal preference.

Don't try to use the words logic and fallacy when you cannot support your claims either, you have only succeeded in making us both look foolish.

LeeDarkMar 1, 20151 votes

It isn't an ad hominem. For it to be an ad hominem, I'd have to substitute you being a moron in place of your argument, but a logical fallacy is not an argument at all. I have no need to offer a rebuttal; my original argument still stands, and is supported by players far more skilled and knowledgeable than you or I. Tanky junglers cannot duel Lee Sin in the jungle. Lee Sin, played intelligently, should be able to consistently three buff any of them without reprisal. If he can counterjungle them, he can ward their jungle, and if he can ward their jungle, he can countergank, where he will offer far more impact than the tank jungler. Yes, those junglers bring CC to the table, but that, on ganks, largely helps keep the enemy from running away. If the enemy has no desire to run away, what do you do when the CC ends and they have more damage than you?

I like tanky junglers, and would even argue they bring more to the table late game than Lee Sin does. Lee can only ult, as good as that is. Nautilus can grab, slow, ult, and generally be annoying throughout the whole fight. Amumu played properly is game-changing late. The problem is that they cannot make it to late game while still having any semblance of parity with the opposing jungler.

CrettMar 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It isn't an ad hominem. For it to be an ad hominem, I'd have to substitute you being a moron in place of your argument

It's not ad hominem, maybe. It's still extremely rude and unnecessary to tell someone they're idiotic, and a scrub, and then with the GTFO. That's not very nice. I know it's the internet but we're all still people here and this is a community.

LeeDarkMar 1, 20151 votes

Go have your pillow fight somewhere else. I didn't say I was a nice person, and this community isn't any better as a whole.

CrettMar 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Go have your pillow fight somewhere else. I didn't say I was a nice person, and this community isn't any better as a whole.

you're talking to people with no intention of being nice or at the very least, civil?

https://33.media.tumblr.com/0e46af70acad8b4010e7a90397f61198/tumblr_n6d22gY9Uv1r2fbkmo2_500.gif

i won't tell you what to do, but i feel that defeats the purpose of discussion

GloriousKaiserFeb 28, 201520 votes

LeeSin : Git gud filthy mana plebs.

PikmintsFeb 28, 20156 votes

360 no nerf

mack9112Feb 28, 201511 votes

I can count on one hand the number of good lee sin players i have encountered. Those tank buffs though make me a happy zac main and his knockup is 1 sec !

DaetnasFeb 28, 201510 votes

Nidalee and Lee Sin the only two viable junglers? Gee that sounds like a lot of fun!

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20155 votes

Nidalee got hit really hard today by some big damage nerf, and a TON of other junglers got some really substantial buffs.

PartholonianFeb 28, 20154 votes

So I guess you weren't paying attention to the buffs to Gragas Nautilus Skarner Volibear XinZhao Zac ?

Zenthon PrimeFeb 28, 20158 votes

Naut also got the living crap buffed out of him today, plus we have a new jungle tank item in place of Juggernaut. Would not be surprised to see Naut's winrate skyrocket next patch.

Silents429Feb 28, 20155 votes

His W was a nerf what the hell are talking about?

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20154 votes

Reading comprehension OP!

The made his E have a 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 second cooldown, down from 10 seconds at all ranks!!! that almost doubles his DPS and early clear speed and means he doesn't need to max his shield first for clear anymore, which is better anyway since it only really scales into the lategame because it is actually quite weak maxed first and means his DPS doesn't go to s~*# once the shield breaks anymore.

aaronconlinFeb 28, 201513 votes

Titan's Wrath didn't really need to be tuned down, but making Riptide spammable is an okay trade off I guess

tainteddazeFeb 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Naut also got the living crap buffed out of him today, plus we have a new jungle tank item in place of Juggernaut. Would not be surprised to see Naut's winrate skyrocket next patch.

Riptide [E] - AP Ratio now .3 (down from .5) and now slows for 1.3 seconds (down from 2). Mana cost reduced to 40/50/60/70/80 (down from 60/70/80/90/100). Cooldown reduced to 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 (down from 10 seconds across all ranks)
Titan's Wrath [W] - Now deals 15/30/45/60/75 (down from 40/55/70/85/100)

this is not a buff the only buff here is that he gets a little better mana costs and slight lower c/d on his e but its lower damage the slow is weaker and his w is now weaker also. Not a buff nerfs to him with some sugar coated buffs to act like they aren't nerfing him.

junglerboy16Feb 28, 20155 votes

The AP ratio nerf on it actually is still more AP damage over the course of 10 seconds than before, at an average of .75 AP if spammed off CD as opposed to .5 currently, he just has better DPS in exchange for weaker burst. You also forget that the base damage didn't get reduced on the E, meaning it will deal 2.5xs more damage over 10 seconds than live.

Those are freaking HUGE buffs. Learn to do the math before saying -AP ratio=nerf.

IceKingChernobogFeb 28, 20155 votes

call me back when lee gets the nerfs he deserve

IcyPepperFeb 28, 20154 votes

I'm kinda sad about Vi getting nerfed, but I suppose it had to be done. If it means other junglers getting the spotlight on a more even playing field, I don't mind having a harder time jungling as my favorite cop.

But since two of the holy trinity has been nerfed (or will be), it's only a matter of time... LeeSin

Donkay20Feb 28, 20153 votes

Urgot got buffed though

It begins Urgot

Malix FarwinFeb 28, 20153 votes

if they nerf every jungler except lee at least we can just ban him. Hopefully the LCS will do the same and then riot would have to look at him

iMaB3ASTFeb 28, 20152 votes

thinking positive :D

Major SparklesFeb 28, 20152 votes

Lee has been nerfed 12 times over his lifetime. Just saying.

Akali is SO HOTFeb 28, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Lee has been nerfed 12 times over his lifetime. Just saying.

Yeah his wrists must be really red by now from all those slaps on the wrists he's gotten.

Edit: If you wanna see some REAL nerfs this is what they look like: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shaco/Background

AakeshFeb 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah his wrists must be really red by now from all those slaps on the wrists he's gotten.

Edit: If you wanna see some REAL nerfs this is what they look like: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shaco/Background

Real nerfs would be all the shit that happen to Vlad

KaisadiIIaFeb 28, 201534 votes

Yeah, he's unplayable since they removed his ability to put a shield on a ward.