I'm adapting my play because I have to, not because I want to.

Barkley··95 votes·3,415 views

I've started playing more carry-style champions these days. Not because I want to. I don't want to. I don't like carry style champions.

I like crowd control champs. I like supportive champions. I like initiators and peelers. I like enabling my team to win the fight, and eventually the game.

By design, these champions typically don't have any real threatening combat power or lane-pushing power. You're never going to see a full tank jungle amumu go take down 3-5 people by himself. you're never going to see a full tank jarvan go solo-split a side lane and take 2 turrets off of one push.

But man... when you land those game-changing team fight abilities, or when you keep your carries alive against all odds... THAT'S the good stuff. That's what makes me love this game. Knowing that, without me, we wouldn't have won that fight. Without me, we wouldn't have won that game. Knowing that my carries are fed as SHIT because I kept them alive, and I presented them with targets to kill.

That's what makes this game great, for me.

But I can't do any of that anymore, at least not reliably. I play champs like Amumu, Sejuani, Tank Jarvan, Ivern, Rammus. Champions that take a decent bit of time to scale up and really come on line. Sure, you can do some fancy stuff with them early. Sure you can get the lucky game where you just so happen to be carrying the game as a tank. It happens.

But most games i feel like the game just moves too goddamn fast for me to ever really matter on these champions. One way or the other.

Either my team is 15-0 and would be winning whether I was in this game or not or my team is 0-15 and I have no real means to carry the game myself, so I'm left wandering around wondering when we can forfeit.

Its not up to me anymore. There's no big team fight moments. There's no big nail-biter fights at baron. There's no come-from-behind victories where I landed that huge 5-man amumu ultimate in front of our nexus turrets and my Vayne got a pentakill. There's none of that.

Either my team gets fed, or we lose. Sometimes I'm the cause of that, sometimes I'm not. But more often than not, by the time I'm ready to start doing amumu things, or start doing sejuani things, or really start shielding the ever-loving SHIT out of my team as Ivern.... The game's already over. My team is either already pushing inhibitors, or our inhibitors are dying.

So now I'm relegated to trying to learn carry-style champions like Xin Zhao, Warwick, Master Yi, Damage J4, etc.

And I do alright. I make some pretty sweet plays. I've carried my fair share of games.

But that's not how I want to play this game. That's how I'm being forced to play this game. It doesn't feel good. Its not as fun.

69 Comments

Ralanr27 votes

Imo adaptation is not because you want to adapt but because you need to. I doubt the fish that crawled out from the ocean wanted lungs and legs.

But beyond that, I understand your frustration. It’s kinda how I started playing tanks more and more. I slowly learned to love it though, so...idk.

Jmman6 votes

{quoted}

Imo adaptation is not because you want to adapt but because you need to. I doubt the fish that crawled out from the ocean wanted lungs and legs.

SO was going to make a GC comment here but I'll restrain. Don't want to hurt anything feelings.

LOSINGISMYPRIDE2 votes

but when you need to adapt its because you need to survive some calamity . So if this calamity fun block your purpose , is it the player problem or the game problem ?

NekoniClaws19 votes

I completely understand where you're coming from. You need to make early impact on the game right now, otherwise your opponent is- and you aren't. If you're playing, idk, Warwick jungle, and you get 2 eyeballs on you and 2 eyeballs on your midlaner off of one gank, seems it's more effective. Meanwhile on a tank jungler your stats are gated behind time / minions.

I have a similar issue but it's not caused by the meta, more how elo clashes with certain champions. You end up asking yourself whether you want to play the champions that will win- or the ones that you want to play but circumstances don't allow for you to win with as often.

Hibeki6 votes

Not using zombie wards

Ben Sharpio16 votes

you're not forced to do anything lol. All of the champions you mentioned are doing well in solo queue. People who main champions generally do well on them REGARDLESS of the meta. Maybe you should stop trying to be the jack of all trades and take the time to main a champion or two, instead of playing 20 different champions lol .

Abibyama2 votes

Agreed, unless you really want to reach the top of the ladder you should play like 1-3 champs.

Leetri2 votes

True, if you're good with a couple of champions you can climb really far (even with champions deemed bad). Meta and FotM picks really only matter at the highest levels of play.

General Esdeath 4 votes

Maining one or two champs doesn't work as well anymore because some champs just get knocked into the gutter for a while unless they're a marksman.

Tibold2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Corsair Sion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uM0fTuwx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-04T12:00:51.975+0000)

you're not forced to do anything lol. All of the champions you mentioned are doing well in solo queue. People who main champions generally do well on them REGARDLESS of the meta. Maybe you should stop trying to be the jack of all trades and take the time to main a champion or two, instead of playing 20 different champions lol .

Sure, they're still viable, but be honest here. It's not what HE wants. He wants the late game scaling. He wants comebacks. He likes teamfighting-heavy champions. Now look at the games we're having. Unless you're in the LCS, every teamfight (if there even will be one) is extremely one-sided from the start. Right now, early game matters so much. Because of this, more often than not, one hyperfed carry will completely demolish your team.

Sure, they're viable, but everything he really enjoyed about League of Legends is just gone. Right from the 15 minute mark, most of your games will already be decided. It's something the boards has complained about for a while. The snowball factor.

RenownedWheat4213 votes

I play full-tank playmaker/initiator supports and always will, and this meta is PERFECT for that. Alistar, Maokai, Shen, Nautilus, all champs I spam in support and carry with. In a meta where people get one-shot, people are also building no defenses. So being that unkillable 4k+ hp cow keeping the enemy carries stunlocked IS CARRYING, because it enables your team to go in and now one-shot them where they would have otherwise just been melted.

You're adapting because you FEEL like you need to, not because you actually do. There is more carry potential now as a tank than I feel like there has been in the past.

3133 votes

He's "adapting" because he's not playing well and instead of getting better he blames the game.

He has 800 games in G5, which is fine, but it shows you're not improving. It's not the champ you're playing bud.

Barkley1 votes

started bronze 5 back in s2. Silver season 3, 4, 5, 6. Gold season 7. Almost plat in season 8 preseason.

I'm not sure what your definition of improvement is, but to me - I'd say I'm improving.

3131 votes

S6 - S5 S7 - G5

800 games.

Very fantastic improvements. I can see why you're mad at riot.

Barkley1 votes

Who hurt you?

Z3Sleeper5 votes

Every season forces you to adapt to a completely new meta.

Nothing new here.

I personally hated the S5 meta since I was a jungle main. Basically at some point jg xp was complete dog poo and your main source of xp was ganking. This lead to the meta for jungling to be to gank nonstop and pretty much only farm raptors and buffs. Also this meant Pantheon was a viable jungler since clearing the jungle was no longer a requirement. And Pantheon was the most low skill pos jungler ever but he was basically top tier.

JoeMG2 votes

{quoted}

Every season forces you to adapt to a completely new meta.

Nothing new here.

I personally hated the S5 meta since I was a jungle main. Basically at some point jg xp was complete dog poo and your main source of xp was ganking. This lead to the meta for jungling to be to gank nonstop and pretty much only farm raptors and buffs. Also this meant Pantheon was a viable jungler since clearing the jungle was no longer a requirement. And Pantheon was the most low skill pos jungler ever but he was basically top tier.

I mean, I'm having some fun with Pantheon jungle right now. :)

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

I was doing lethality jungle panth, and the first 25 minutes would be hilarious

JoeMG4 votes

I actually have a hard time playing champs like Rammus and Sejuani in low elo because they are super dependant on your team following up.

Too many times I've pinged, came in for the gank and hit my cc only to see my laner use that as the chance to get a few more cs.

Karunamon2 votes

I'm finding that low ELO support is no picnic either. Even if you play perfectly and never get caught out, if your team has no map awareness and doesn't follow up on your attempts to CC, you'll just lose every teamfight.

I'm very seriously considering maining another class until I get out of bronze.

Lakega1 votes

{quoted}

I actually have a hard time playing champs like Rammus and Sejuani in low elo because they are super dependant on your team following up.

Too many times I've pinged, came in for the gank and hit my cc only to see my laner use that as the chance to get a few more cs.

^ So much this.. but that's just low elo for you... My problem with this season is the same problem I have with all seasons.. I play champs that rely on 2 things. Me landing good CC, and good ganks, and my team following up on that for an easy kill...

usually my teammates don't do jack, I fall way behind due to losing out on tons of cs/gold I could of just gotten in the jungle farming away, and my score ends up being 4/10/* and I get blamed for it.

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

lol trueeeeee Ive lunged in as galio, landed my knock up, and taunt on the mid and adc...only to die before my team responded, <And it wasn't caw caw bang s@#$ I'm dead, it was at least 10 seconds of me fighting) too many times you see a tank dive in to initiate land that perfect grab of the ideal targets, but have 0 follow through from your team, that is why I moved to enchanter or mage supports instead of tank supports

DNFVixen3 votes

Riot has been ruining this game steadily since season 6.

The new runesystem made everyone have the ability to oneshot. I remember in seasons 3-5 you had to be VERY skilled and be VERY far ahead to oneshot someone unless you had DFG and you STILL had to be skilled.

The game has had too much dmg in it since season 6, they only made the situation a whole lot worse, I remember when the game actually took time, skill, and thought. Before leathality we actually had to think about what champions are early game and fall off later and what champions are lategame carries but are much weaker in the early game. Now we don't even have a lategame anymore everyone just scales. I really miss seasons 3-5 sure they had their problems but we didn't have this snowballing out of control bullshit, games easily lasted 30-45 mins and they didn't even feel long because the game was more balanced now games barely last 15-20 mins, hell sometimes the game is OVER before 15 mins even rolls in.

Riot knows what the problems are but they think they don't have to account for their fuck ups or fix them.

The things I listed are why I quit and I am not returning till they are fixed.

SpongebobIsLife3 votes

Ornn would like to have a word with you.

General Esdeath 7 votes

Ornn was trash until they overbuffed him. Not to mention the removal of fervor means he's a nightmare for bruisers.

SpongebobIsLife3 votes

im just saying, the op said he likes crowd control champs but he needs more damage.

Insert Taco Commerical with the Little Girl Why not both???

LordGeovanni1 votes

Orrn still has everything that made him feel bad and weak his Q although better placing and come up time still doesnt come up immediately so comboing it with e feels bad and requires you to sit doing nothing for .75 seconds or you miss the pillar. his e still has a super long delay when using it has little damage and gets knocked out by most things. his r takes long to come and go which i dont think is a problem as long as the make the second part of his r global. Lastly he doesnt scale with anything damage wise so getting ahead you cant ever dominate (with his current hp W his max hp w does that regardless because riot sucks at balancing % damage in this game) Riot needs to revert his W from doing Max Hp damage to current hp damage not many people complained about his w because it was the best part of his underwhelming kit. The very little that did complain that his w current health damage i didnt really matter because it had a very high base number that it couldnt go below.

General Esdeath 1 votes

CC champs are fine but not when their numbers on damage are buffed like that. Ornn has good CC but he needs a wall for his E.

His Q is way too slow to combo them unless the enemy is brain dead.

WhoTiny133463 votes

Everyone knows this is the ADC meta. Play mf, trist, twitch, or vayne.

Also Rammus is the best jg in the game right now. Run aftershock, build thornmail. He has insane wave clear and can hit all lanes at least once every 5 minutes. If you're playing rammus and losing, you need to go back into normals and practice some more.

TheDevice3 votes

I actually honestly feel the most relation to this guy than any bs "git gud" thread I've ever heard.

I main Sion and I love him. He's the funnest champion I've played in league and yet as good as I can be, I can't consistently win games for my team. I was going to pick Aatrox as my carry but although he's got some fun stuff in his kit, he's not that fun to play. I just can't bring myself to play him like I have wanted to. Also, his skins kida suck lol (I still can't enjoy mecha aatrox even with his chromas; he looks so... boxy and outdated. Like a really low-budget skin). I've almost gone toward playing yas or even zed but I was like... then i'll just be another yas or zed main and It may as well not be me playing this game anymore because I'm taking my own personal tastes out of the equation just to win.

It's been horrifying to just watch game after game my team hard failing and feeding the opposing sides hyper carry. And I can do nothing about it. Thats including trying to help other lanes. At a certain point of my team feeding, I can't possibly win unless I myself was some hyper carry. I know it.

People have literally told me not to play champions that I like if I want to climb despite how well I do on them. It's just unreal that this is the state of the game where to climb you have to actually not play what you love. 130+ champions my ass. You only have a handful to choose from if you want to climb.

WardBaronFFS1 votes

I main sion as well and I agree with you totally.Its like you can stomp lane and make constant roams bot lane but at the end of the day if your bot lane isnt good getting them fed doesnt make it any better or even if they do win lane nothing is better then a vayne hitting 2 items and out damaging your 4 item ashe amiright.... Its just about damage damage damage and mobility not to forget mobility so you can dodge other peoples damage

Salson2 votes

Funny, you want to scale up for team fights, I want to not get ganked 4 times in 10 minutes.

A question though: Would you as a jungler like the old jungle exp back? Remember when it took 4 camps for level 3, and the exp gain increased when upgrading the jungle item.

I liked it because I was ganked less, but I also hear Junglers complaining how they could focus more on themselves than on snowballing their lanes.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Because every season Riot shifts the game more and more towards team and organized play rather than soloQ/solo carry playstyles. This was especially apparent with FlexQ.

So yeah, expect to have little impact as an individual

Karunamon4 votes

And yet, the entire ELO system is centered on your performance as an individual.

It doesn't make sense.

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

I kinda liked the old elo system, where you didnt have to leap over walls to hit new tiers, so losing your promos didnt bounce you waaay back, to start all over again, it feels so so much more grindy now

MetalGearTeemo1 votes

Odd, one feeding individual seems to have an enormous impact on the game.

Troll for Trump1 votes

That's always been the case...

GGLineaR2 votes

I play a lot of Yorick.

I played him even more before the preseason started.

Speaking as a brainless splitpushing juggernaut main, bruisers and juggernauts have always been unbalanced, but this time it's in their favour.

This is not a good thing.

Any meta where a Juggernaut or a Bruiser is strong is not a good one. Why play a tank if the juggernaut will 1v4 the rest of your team? Why play a tank when a bruiser will beat you 1v1 every time, and then hypercarry the game after they are fed?

As boring and as shitty as it is, Tanks need to always be the "best" or "safest" picks in top lane. Because when they aren't, you get metas like this, where people would rather throw themselves off a highway overpass then queue again.

Nerfs have gotta come to the worst offenders, or the runes need changing.

Because if nothing changes, this will only get worse. And I quite liked the uphill battle of trying to play Yorick before the preseason kicked in.

Kilanost2 votes

This is because damage creep has gone out of control and games are ending at 20-25 minutes extremely often which means they don't have time to itemize resistances/armor to be helpful before the game is basically over unless they want to get steamrolled in lane or not be able to clear their jungle with any real speed. Oh lets not forget what happens if you just build health since everything has %health or true damage now. There are no good options to actually be tanky early. And late dies the seconda void staff or LW item gets built anyway.

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

Yeah I got called a troll for rushing some defensive items as Garen into Illaoi top lane, instead of going for cleaver first, despite her and the enemy jungle being AD and my primary threat <since i saw the jungle 3 times before 10 minutes>

Lowvyr2 votes

Honestly I think this is somewhat elo dependent. In high elos those tanky initiators are good because you have a team that will follow up. On the other hand, in low elo, you have to carry. You acn't rely on your teammates, you have to do the work because your team is more than likely completely incompetent and can't do it themselves.

Or you can just main Aatrox like me and be completely useless in any elo. and feel good about it.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

If u are useless at low elo with Aatrox, its not the pick ur issue.

Anachronous2 votes

{quoted}

And I do alright. I make some pretty sweet plays. I&#039;ve carried my fair share of games.

But that&#039;s not how I want to play this game. That&#039;s how I&#039;m being forced to play this game. It doesn&#039;t feel good. Its not as fun.

I used to play nothing but support early on (season 1-3) but I stopped. I took every main champion of the time and turned them into a support. It was fun. Everyone was always saying 'lane healing is toxic pls nerf' but I wrecked sorakas in competitive play as a fiddle or heimer support. However as the game has progressed it really took away a lot of the items that made those plays viable. I dont play summoners rift anymore because its 'herr derr get farm build formula'

I get why it happened and what not to an extent but riot has this awful m.o. of when something doesn't work quite right 'NERF IT' Rather than introducing restrictions or counter gameplay.

Which is triply hilarious because 'lol stealth- just buy oracles...sort of...which we continuously nerf....enjoy those shrooms' yet oracles themselves show how an item can help alleviate a frustrating problem. Is it perfect? no. Yet its as good of a step in a direction as just 'lol nerf irelia' Why dont we get some new and interesting items to help restructure the game rather than constantly 'reworking' champs. I miss a lot of the old cool items. I want to be able to take my ww top, support, mid, jungle and just itemize, rune up, and change up my playstyle to make it work. Yeah mid I might lose tower, but because of the farm and side jungle camps I will be nice and itemized when team fights come around to lifesteal my way into a quasi mage-tank.

yeah I might have to start with four gold items as fiddle support and coordinate with my adc to get a good fear kill, but that late game crowstorm bludgeoning down their tiny supports healing output will be worth it.

Riot is taking the strategy out of the game constantly carving it down into simpler and simpler more digestible parts when it could be expanding. like 'oh hey you LIKE itemizaton...well instead of just nerfing or reworking items/removing them we will give you more items for different playstyles you want to see revived'. Its the same concept with the same problems just gives players more options rather than constantly taking away. champions are more than just their stats. They are their items, and different champions throughout the game.

Cowseed2 votes

Title redundant. Nothing adapts because they want to.

Teriyaki Bukkake1 votes

Sorry but you've come to the wrong game, or you've come to the right game at the wrong time :/

You're probably going to be made to wait seasons until you don't have to be a carry :'(

Seilleas1 votes

Also even if you play a tank, well tbh you don't die that much slower than other characters, AD assassin with full lethality will kill you in 2 seconds instead of 0 for non-tanks....woooow such difference. Also if you want to argue that they are not that fed most of the time.....that's a lie, nowdays theres always someone who is hella fed and its not even close. Either it´s assassin, bruiser that builds assassin items or ADC that...well, either builds assassin items or just LW and ADC build(its actually cheaper than assassin build wtf?)

THE D1C1 votes

{quoted}

So now I&#039;m relegated to trying to learn carry-style champions like Xin Zhao, Warwick, Master Yi, Damage J4, etc.

I feel you, I have always been a balls to deep kinda guy, I would rather play Defensive J4 so I can get in get out safely but you can’t because the way the new runes are there is only 1 optimal path... and that’s damage.

DJ 019751 votes

I know that feel man. Nothing used to get my blood going like hitting that sweet, sweet flash-Unstoppable Force as Malphite top/jungle into a 5-man Orianna ultimate that lined everyone up for my lethality Varus to Q through them all and get a free penta. Now everyone has these kits that have so much self-peel or giant shields/heals that all of that could happen and then enemy team, left with 4 hp apiece, would be back to full health with shields worth more than their base HP within 3 seconds as well as 80 feet away because Janna pressed R, or they have a Tristana who did the good ol' W R Flash that might as well had put two turret's distance between you and her.

No one gets punished for being out of position any more.

Played against a Lulu adc Janna support the other day. 4 people on our team dove them. 4 people on my team died. Malphite ultimate. Katarina damage. Ezreal ultimate. Alistar support tanking the turret with all of his crazy CC. Didn't matter. Lulu ulted herself, shielded herself, Janna shielded her, Janna pressed R, Lulu used summoner heal, Lulu polymorphed. It was so much cancer it made me actually want to just turn my PC off and lie down for a few hours.

Thankfully we out-scaled them because they had 4 ad since Lulu built AD and not AP on-hit. They were even super cocky in the all-chat, followed by a LOT of excuses. That part felt good.

Bhagswag1 votes

You sound like you would enjoy Shen right now. He can duel because of percent HP, and his taunt is downright nasty in late game. Plus his W and passive make him tanky.

Try it out?

P4ppino1 votes

Well, that's kinda how you get better at the game. You adapt to the game as it changes continuesly.

Excluding Ivern (he is just trash), the champions you listed are pretty strong. Jarvan and seju are top tier junglers, amumu and rammus are close to it as well. They all rely on macro play though, so if your awareness is not so good, then you won't be able to setup huge teamfights.

But they are good, and definitely can turn the tides of a game. So if you want to play them, play them.

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