#Its supposed to be an assassin. A risky character to play.
An assassin_** reliably scaling**_ because they can afk clear waves from out of range of reasonable interaction and have a get out of jail free card for when you do end up able to force something is not healthy.
TehNACHO1 votesI always feel like Ekko is misclassed. His kit functions like a Skirmisher, which makes it slightly sad when people try and fail to balance him as an Assassin.
WoonStruck2 votesIf he's a skirmisher, then his ability to 1 shot squishies with an unmissable combo (E->Q->auto) needs to be removed.
He's an assassin with low CDs. Unless you consider Kha a skirmisher too?
TehNACHO2 votesIf he's a skirmisher, then his ability to 1 shot squishies with an unmissable combo (E->Q->auto) needs to be removed.
And in fact, this I agree with. Even as an Assassin he shouldn't be doing this because every time Ekko becomes viable, this combo becomes extra obnoxious.
Honestly there is no way to spin Assassin Ekko's gameplay patterns in any way that is either lackluster (but really good for a Skirmisher role) or broken (one shotting through a mechanically simple unmissable combo).
He's an assassin with low CDs. Unless you consider Kha a skirmisher too?
I always saw Kha'Zix as the middle ground. This is mostly because his Isolation mechanic favors the state the target is in, not who the target is. To rephrase, he's defined by his gameplay as a Slayer overall, rather than how his statlines favor certain enemies over others.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesIf he's a skirmisher, then his ability to 1 shot squishies with an unmissable combo (E->Q->auto) needs to be removed.
No, that combo should just be removed, period.
He's an assassin with low CDs. Unless you consider Kha a skirmisher too?
Kha's an assassin because he can flank and jump at you from insane distances. Kha doesn't have (conditional) AoE CC and very little AoE damage.
Ekko has a two part dash that needs to be within ~700 range of his enemy to use, which is really, really shitty because it means you are NOT surprising anyone, period. He has a medium ranged AoE damage ability with two hits. He also has conditional AoE CC and a conditional shield. His ult is basically the polar opposite of Kha's - while Kha uses his ult for more damage, stick, and a surprise engage, Ekko uses his ult to outplay damage, kill some unlucky enemies, and heal.
Having his escape on his ultimate is a terrible design in and of itself - luckily, his W is also a pretty good tool to use after getting a kill, CC'ing anyone who might try to kill him and also giving him a shield. However... Ekko's ult doesn't really contribute to his gameplay. He'd be a perfectly fine champion without it, minus a couple plays and plus a few deaths.
The problem with Ekko is that he's not surprising. He just doesn't have the ambush ability of an assassin. Zed can W+R, Rengar can ult+invisibility, Fizz can trollpole, Talon can E+R or simply R+Q, Kha can R+E or just E.
On the other hand, by the time Ekko gets into threat range you're either an idiot or you think you can deal with him.
He just plays far more like a Riven, with fairly consistent damage, high mobility, but not that great engage (Riven's assassinations involve flash to engage). They've also got the shields, the CC, the AoE damage.
KoKoboto1 votesAssassin works because Ekko will never be able to just E->Q->Auto someone in normal circumstances. Assassin looks for opportunity through out of position, mobility, whatever. Ekko finds opportunity with his W, dives in for the super combo. Or he finds opportunity with his ultimate. Still his primary is assassin because he doesn't have the same tools as over skirmishers to kill tankier people.
Riot also has said that he is kinda like an assassin skirmisher so that is why he feels a bit skirmisher but it is mostly assassin. Mostly assassinating with bursts of mobility and damage.
TehNACHO1 votesAssassin works because Ekko will never be able to just E->Q->Auto someone in normal circumstances. Assassin looks for opportunity through out of position, mobility, whatever. Ekko finds opportunity with his W, dives in for the super combo.
So he'll just E->Q->Auto someone in that circumstance.
Still his primary is assassin because he doesn't have the same tools as over skirmishers to kill tankier people.
Yeah, but what I'm advocating is to completely treat his primary as Skirmisher. He already has the tools to kill Tankier people through his passive if it was rebalanced, and his gameplay already favors drawn out fights.
KoKoboto1 votesSo he'll just E->Q->Auto someone in that circumstance.
Well yeah that's his combo but he can't just do that. It is like Talon combo is W->Q->Auto but Talon can't just walk up and do that because support, front line, and other damage will stop him. He has to look for a opening and jumping over walls or ult. Ekko has to look for an opening with parallel convergence or flashing back with Chronobreak.
Yeah, but what I'm advocating is to completely treat his primary as Skirmisher. He already has the tools to kill Tankier people through his passive if it was rebalanced, and his gameplay already favors drawn out fights.
Yeah I think Ekko would be a better skirmisher as well but he would need to be changed completely. When watching his tralier thing I thought we would get something like that but we didn't and it is weird.
He doesn't have tools to kill tankier people right now, changing him is changing him, his gameplay does not favor drawn out fights. He dodges in and out and is squishy. He relies on finding opportunities with parallel convergence. The only time he enjoyed drawn out fights was when the cancer tank Ekko build was a thing.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesWell yeah that's his combo but he can't just do that. It is like Talon combo is W->Q->Auto but Talon can't just walk up and do that because support, front line, and other damage will stop him. He has to look for a opening and jumping over walls or ult. Ekko has to look for an opening with parallel convergence or flashing back with Chronobreak.
Except Talon can't actually kill you with W+Q+auto, and his R isn't only there to give him more chances to oneshot, it also plays a pretty big role in it.
Yeah I think Ekko would be a better skirmisher as well but he would need to be changed completely. When watching his tralier thing I thought we would get something like that but we didn't and it is weird.
I don't think so, all he needs is damage nerfs so his combo's don't oneshot, and an E CD refund for proccing his passive. Maybe a speed nerf on his passive so he isn't looking to completely run away, just kinda stay relatively safe until his CD's come back up.
The in and out combo'ing is just much more of a skirmisher playstyle. Assassins look for in, kill, out, and done. They don't go back in after.
He doesn't have tools to kill tankier people right now, changing him is changing him, his gameplay does not favor drawn out fights. He dodges in and out and is squishy. He relies on finding opportunities with parallel convergence. The only time he enjoyed drawn out fights was when the cancer tank Ekko build was a thing.
Um, why do you think he was good as a tank? It's because he was fighting other tanks, and that's not just because of his base damages. Take a close look at his W. The passive.
That being said, perhaps a form of conditional sustain (actually conditional, not 'conditional' like his passive is. In other words, something that is harder than just autoing 3 times, so tank Ekko can't abuse it just by being in extended fights. Like Camille conditional) would be helpful, as skirmishers tend to build lifesteal + shred against tanks, which unless Gunblade Ekko becomes a thing (maybe, if he uses his E a lot or gets a minor AD scaling), Ekko doesn't have.
KoKoboto1 votesExcept Talon can't actually kill you with W+Q+auto, and his R isn't only there to give him more chances to oneshot, it also plays a pretty big role in it.
Yeah Ekko is pretty silly. The thing is although that combo is stupid if you're near a support you won't die from it because you gotta wait for the wind back on his Q. Also for the reasons I said earlier in that he can't just walk up and do that, because the support or anyone else will notice him. However I have done that combo many times and killed unsuspecting enemies with assassin tactics.
I don't think so, all he needs is damage nerfs so his combo's don't oneshot, and an E CD refund for proccing his passive. Maybe a speed nerf on his passive so he isn't looking to completely run away, just kinda stay relatively safe until his CD's come back up.
The in and out combo'ing is just much more of a skirmisher playstyle. Assassins look for in, kill, out, and done. They don't go back in after.
Um, why do you think he was good as a tank? It's because he was fighting other tanks, and that's not just because of his base damages. Take a close look at his W. The passive.
Yes I play Ekko a ton actually. That only kicks in when the enemy is 30% health. Tank Ekko was a result of sunfire and iceborn gauntlet and Ekko just having great base damage and perma slow and mobility and healing and CC and a bunch of stuff. So it wasn't because of 30% missing health but that is something that also helped, the missing health also scaled with AP but tank Ekko didn't even build AP lol.
That being said, perhaps a form of conditional sustain (actually conditional, not 'conditional' like his passive is. In other words, something that is harder than just autoing 3 times, so tank Ekko can't abuse it just by being in extended fights. Like Camille conditional) would be helpful, as skirmishers tend to build lifesteal + shred against tanks, which unless Gunblade Ekko becomes a thing (maybe, if he uses his E a lot or gets a minor AD scaling), Ekko doesn't have.
Yeah maybe.
ZephyrDrake1 votesso you want them to give more damage to ekko then?