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Iceborn Gauntlet

Ravenous Howls··8 votes·2,139 views

So with the new season hitting shortly and the myriad of buffs, nerfs and outright deletions of certain items and masteries, I was hoping we could give IBG it's good old 125 Base AD sheen proc. As it stands it is the weakest base AD proc of the three items that build from Sheen and is probably the weakest of the Juggernaut items atm outside of it's use on Nasus.

I feel like this is especially relevant with the removal of Oppressor as that mastery point made IBG a really good item to constantly apply the extra 2.5% damage on an enemy, minion or monster. Many of the new masteries are values solely on interaction with champions only and this make it harder for those champs who need to be a bit more passive early.

Also if people are worried about this item being abused on ranged harassers like Ezreal then make the item melee only. They already remade Trinity Force to be more of Marksman/Skirmisher item so give IBG back to the bruisers it was intended for.

What does everyone else think about this?

106 Comments

Big Lincoln5 votes

IBG isn't that good on juggernauts, it's more of a tank item

only exception I can think of is trundle

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:07:41.353+0000)

IBG isn't that good on juggernauts, it's more of a tank item

only exception I can think of is trundle

It's still good on Trundle and Nasus. Mostly b/c both of them have kits that get stronger as the game goes on. Although Trundle's strength is heavily reliant on a tank being on the enemy team but I think IBG is better on him and Nasus over TF atm.

Big Lincoln2 votes

I disagree, Nasus is very good with TF and sterak right now, and he's fine with farming the gold for it in most lanes

Trundle doesn't really want it because it's too expensive for him and he wants to bulk up faster. Plus he has no slow besides his E, so IBG makes him very sticky

Tyrone Lannister5 votes

Im tired of seeing it on ez.

Ravenous Howls2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:08:31.199+0000)

Im tired of seeing it on ez.

I agree like I am tired of seeing Black Cleaver on Lucian. Seriously both items should be melee only. They were intended for bruisers and juggernauts not marksmen.

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

Black cleaver i dont have as much of a problem. At least i can have a chance to reach the ad using it

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:11:57.387+0000)

Black cleaver i dont have as much of a problem. At least i can have a chance to reach the ad using it

Agreed but it is still problematic for an ADC to get that much free power from an item and just crush tanks when they are suppose to be at their strongest.

Tyrone Lannister3 votes

Tanks have always been in a weird place of balance. No one wants to get 1v1ed by a tank but you dont want them being worthless. I do think there needs to be items to deal with them, otherwise they become problematic. Perhaps a small nerf to cleaver

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:18:28.739+0000)

Tanks have always been in a weird place of balance. No one wants to get 1v1ed by a tank but you dont want them being worthless. I do think there needs to be items to deal with them, otherwise they become problematic. Perhaps a small nerf to cleaver

I think ADC's already have plenty of ways to deal with tanks. BC was intended for Bruisers/Skirmishers and Juggernauts. ADC's can buy Yommu's, Lord Dominik's or Mortal Reminder for their pen needs there is not reason for them to need access to BC as well.

Honestly a fully armored tank can not 1v1 a fully damage ADC or Juggernaut/Skirmisher realistically. The tank would have to buy at least two damage items to compete hurting their overall tanikness and making them for more useless to their team.

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

I was refering to the dark times of cinderhulk, when a tank could absolutely 1v1 adcs

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:27:21.122+0000)

I was refering to the dark times of cinderhulk, when a tank could absolutely 1v1 adcs

Oh well then yeah I could see that being problematic but we no longer have that issue so I believe these proposed changes can be and would be healthy.

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

I think so too. I just dont want to deal with unkillable tanks

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:31:42.977+0000)

I think so too. I just dont want to deal with unkillable tanks

Agreed. And I am not proposing we make the item so damn strong that tanks can run over everyone. I really think the item was only nerfed b/c of Ekko, Fizz and Ez none of which are tanks and all of which have been nerfed even after the item was nerfed.

Tyrone Lannister2 votes

True true

AirKingNeo1 votes

Black Cleaver to melee only, Duskblade isn't the problem.

Keep in mind also Ghostblade was a problem because 20 armor pen.

Ravenous Howls1 votes

{quoted}

Black Cleaver to melee only, Duskblade isn't the problem.

Keep in mind also Ghostblade was a problem because 20 armor pen.

For any champion who build a lot of AS in their kit BC can basically make armor value in the negatives on squishy champion letting the one using it deal true damage. Lucian and Ms. Fortune are particularly abusive with this build.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

item 3025 is best when paired with item 3053 because item 3053 gives you 25% bonus base ad increasing the damage from the item 3057 proc on item 3025

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-02T14:58:49.416+0000)

item 3025 is best when paired with item 3053 because item 3053 gives you 25% bonus base ad increasing the damage from the item 3057 proc on item 3025

I don't disagree with any of this. If I feel like I may need to carry then I will opt for TF but typically I do just as well if not better with IBG. And I like Sterak's but I still then have to build 2 items to get the same relative damage on IBG when it used to give me that same damage before being nerfed due to problem champs and not the item itself.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

but with the armor of item 3025 and the hp of item 3053 plus the passive of it growing in size and strength and gaining an additional 25 % bonus base ad makes your armor from item 3025 more effective from the hp of item 3053 making you harder to kill and when you trigger the lifeline passive you get more damage making you have more damage in general plus more bonus damage on item 3057 proc with the additional 25% bonus ad for a total of 50% bonus ad. Nasus base ad at lvl 18 is 119 then + 50% is another 60 ad for total of 180

then the sheen proc is 100% bonus ad on the next auto after an ability so 180 + (100%) = 360 ad on hit . and then it works with his Q cuz you activate Q it procs sheen so lets say you have 200 stacks so its scaling at max rank is 110 + (100% ad ) + 200x3 (600) so 110+360+600= 1070 damage (not including any ad from runes or other items) and we all know 200 is a low amount of stats , and its say its late game so 500 stacks 110+360+1500= 1970 damage

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:37:16.927+0000)

but with the armor of item 3025 and the hp of item 3053 plus the passive of it growing in size and strength and gaining an additional 25 % bonus base ad makes your armor from item 3025 more effective from the hp of item 3053 making you harder to kill and when you trigger the lifeline passive you get more damage making you have more damage in general plus more bonus damage on item 3057 proc with the additional 25% bonus ad for a total of 50% bonus ad. Nasus base ad at lvl 18 is 119 then + 50% is another 60 ad for total of 180

then the sheen proc is 100% bonus ad on the next auto after an ability so 180 + (100%) = 360 ad on hit . and then it works with his Q cuz you activate Q it procs sheen so lets say you have 200 stacks so its scaling at max rank is 110 + (100% ad ) + 200x3 (600) so 110+360+600= 1070 damage (not including any ad from runes or other items) and we all know 200 is a low amount of stats , and its say its late game so 500 stacks 110+360+1500= 1970 damage

Holy crap dude! No wonder it took you so long to reply. LOL! But this is nice to see in numbers and gives me something to chew on. As it is right now I've mainly been building Titanic Hydra for it's insane wave clear, damage in team fights and LS procs on the cone. Makes a very dangerous and potent combo with IBG as well.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

item 3053 also increase the damage on item 3078 but no one seems to build them together

it works on anything that proc the item 3057 increasing the damage based on how it increases base ad by 25%

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:43:46.726+0000)

item 3053 also increase the damage on item 3078 but no one seems to build them together

it works on anything that proc the item 3057 increasing the damage based on how it increases base ad by 25%

Probably b/c trying to build them together is way too expensive and hurts Nasus' resistance needs. This is why I think IBG is better as well mainly b/c you can open up his build path a bit more if you don't force TF on yourself.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

lol if you think Ezreal sucks wait til he builds item 3025 item 3053 or item 3078 item 3053 and gets armor pen and crit

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:49:36.032+0000)

lol if you think Ezreal sucks wait til he builds item 3025 item 3053 or item 3078 item 3053 and gets armor pen and crit

I'm sorry did I say Ez sucks? I don't remember typing that but I do think Ez was one of the problem children who abused IBG to get its nerf in the first place. And I am fully aware of how much Ez still hurts with these items. I really feel they need to reevaluate some of the scaling so that champs like Ez don't get terrific damage, poke and takiness all at once.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

'sucks" as in a bitch to play against with item 3025 not as in "sucks" as a champ being bad /no good etc

AirKingNeo1 votes

Ezreal and Crit?

???

Essence Reaver shouldn't be on his item set. Is Riot causing this dillusion?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

you can get item 3031 and do crit damge if you like

AirKingNeo1 votes

Where does Ezreal have room for that? He doesn't auto enough.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

you auto after ever sheen proc to get bonus damage

if you dont then you are wasting the bonus damage from item 3025 item 3078

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Silverjust1 votes

you could also hit your q

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

doesnt q proc the sheen? so then your next auto would apply the bonus ad damage from the sheen proc ?

Silverjust1 votes

no the q procs sheen and when you hit someone the q aplies onhits, like the sheen. Thats what made him so hard to balance in the past

Snowman Arc1 votes

I don't think Nasus' Q bonus damage is applied to the Sheen procs.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

sheen does on hit damage on next auto?

q empowers his next auto ?

q procs sheen ?

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0003000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-03T21:11:07.935+0000)

I don't think Nasus' Q bonus damage is applied to the Sheen procs.

Assuming Q is maxed and level 18. He gets 110 + (119 + 100%= 238) + stacks. applied on hit to the next enemy he hits. The sheen proc doesn't get more damage but b/c Q is considered an empowered AA he gets the sheen bonus + the skills base damage and the bonus stack damage applied all at once. That's why it's so good to have a sheen item on Nasus.

RogueWill1 votes

Honestly i don't like item 3053. I rather go item 3742 item 3025 and burst someone with that powerful aa

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

item 3742 is only inflicting bonus damage if you havent been slowed or cc in any way

ashe slow on her abilities completely negate its passive bonus damage by applying slows

but the bonus base ad from item 3053 is always there

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2016-11-02T20:47:02.389+0000)

item 3742 is only inflicting bonus damage if you havent been slowed or cc in any way

ashe slow on her abilities completely negate its passive bonus damage by applying slows

but the bonus base ad from item 3053 is always there

Yup Deadman's is pretty situational now a days but is still great to zoom towards objectives but generally Randuin's feels better.

RogueWill1 votes

item 3053 requires you to get damage first. On Nasus case it would be alright since he has no real gap closer so he gets damaged on the way but other tanky champions can bypass that. For example Malphite would go for deadman gaunlet, since the next aa after his ult will hit like a truck due to the stacked empowered giving considerable burst. Sejuani is on the same train since her W, the Shen and the Deadman all proc at the same time.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

it gives 25% bonus base ad ... so meaning if you get it early the ad bonus scales through the game as you level and your base ad scales

reaperteaser1 votes

just curious, which champ do you think it the best user with iceborn and steraks?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i like it on these champs

Ekko Malphite Nasus Sion Trundle Yorick Alistar

personal fav is Trundle

but i also like

item 3748 item 3053 stacked on Trundle JarvanIV Sion hell im sure it would or could work for Garen Darius Olaf Shen XinZhao Renekton

Ravenous Howls1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uL4AFsQq,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-11-02T22:45:58.954+0000)

i like it on these champs

Ekko Malphite Nasus Sion Trundle Yorick Alistar

personal fav is Trundle

but i also like

item 3748 item 3053 stacked on Trundle JarvanIV Sion hell im sure it would or could work for Garen Darius Olaf Shen XinZhao Renekton

Can confirm that TH is great on Shen and Trundle.

cheoekar2 votes

If u buff ibg then dive tanks are gunna be more of a problem like poppy i can already burst down an adc and if u give me more burst i might be able to one shot them entirely.............so imo bad ideal

Ravenous Howls1 votes

{quoted}

If u buff ibg then dive tanks are gunna be more of a problem like poppy i can already burst down an adc and if u give me more burst i might be able to one shot them entirely.............so imo bad ideal

Can you do this late game? Or just mid game when Poppy really shines? Also how exactly does giving IBG it's original value back make divers more dangerous then they are right now? Poppy is really just as dangerous if she pins you into your turret when you are half health with or without the extra damage it still means you are probably dead.

nm10101 votes

Lichbane is actually the lowest base ad proc.

Ravenous Howls2 votes

{quoted}

Lichbane is actually the lowest base ad proc.

But it also double dips in AP making it much stronger overall as typically mages or AP scaling damage dealers have really high base damages so they get some really nice burst from this item that quickly overshadows IBG shee proc which is the exact same damage as sheen alone.

nm10102 votes

That may be true, but you still said

As it stands it is the weakest base AD proc of the three items that build from Sheen

And Iceborn gauntlet is more gold efficient then lichbane, it won't get meaningfully buffed without something else on it being nerfed/removed.

item 3025 = 93.83% gold efficient

item 3100 = 82.29% gold efficient

Ravenous Howls1 votes

{quoted}

That may be true, but you still said

And Iceborn gauntlet is more gold efficient then lichbane, it won't get meaningfully buffed without something else on it being nerfed/removed.

item 3025 = 93.83% gold efficient

item 3100 = 82.29% gold efficient

Your right I didn't clarify also thanks for the break down. where did you find this? Can you also find the gold efficiency for TF as well? I admit to being surprised that LB is not more gold efficient with the AP portion as well.

nm10102 votes

Scaling effects (passives in general) are not included so lichbane with somewhere ~4-500 ap would be about the same as iceborn by itself. The gold efficiency is listed on the wiki for each item

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Iceborn_Gauntlet

You can also calculate them for yourself using this page

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Gold_efficiency

Trinity is one of the highest gold efficient items in the game with 97.04% without any passives active.

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