I just get accepted today. The servers are overtaxed by people trying to get in to play URF (literally takes over 20 minutes to log in). Any mode that isn't URF has a massive queue time, and people are prone to instantly dodging if they don't get Taric.
So yeah, this shit likely isn't gonna be balanced once it goes live.
Trídent80 votesDoesn't really matter that much, PBE usually is only used for bug testing
rarely has it been used for balancing
But gratz on getting accepted, I've been hoping for so long to get in :(
TotalJerk33 votesThe jugg reworks aside from Mordekaiser had loads of balancing based on PBE feedback. Riot tends to pay more attention to the PBE when it's something major and far reaching. The sad thing now is that no one on the PBE right now gives a shit about anything that isn't URF or Taric.
Trídent4 votesthat was once
and it didn't turn out too well
UnholyMonkey13 votesIts the same people spamming boards about the changes but don't even have a pbe account. The path of least resistance on the boards is complaining, its always easier to critique then it is to create.
Vistha Kai12 votesSometimes only common sense is needed to gauge a change.
In the current state a lot of mages will get nerfed with those item reworks and that's, my dear sir, a fact.
I hate my ADC22 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKxbXpWU,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2016-04-10T08:49:10.748+0000)
In the current state a lot of mages will get nerfed with those item reworks and that's, my dear sir, a fact.
That's an assumption, not a fact.
A fact is objective, proven and can be verified/observed.
Vistha Kai3 votesI'm sorry. You are right.
A fact would be blindly agreeing with those changes.
Elikain7 votesBy your definition, everyone who agrees with you and scrutinizes every change, is in the right. How come?
The point of the boards is to have a discussion but you brought no points to discuss, you've just left an opinion that you feel mages will be nerfed. An elaboration of this would have been helpful to at least have points of references, so that anyone can join in a discussion.
Elikain8 votesI don't think that will be the case. Mage Update + AP Itemization Adjustment are going hand in hand.
Items for mages already had a problem in supporting their state where in order to be useful, you had to spam spells indefinitely, because all you did was damage. So, the usual choices were mages that had high stats or flat out utility mages (like Lulu and Lux).
This Mage Update is addressing this by giving specific mages a reason to be picked, besides their damage - same as the Marksman Update (where 6 marksmen had specific situations where they shine and are different from one another).
If this is changing, then that means that itemization can no longer support spell spamming through artificially created, infinite mana wells. It has to be fair towards spell oriented mages but it also has to be a limited resource, to gate reckless usage of spells. It was never about continually mining the floor around you and being a walking explosion hazard for the enemy team, it's about using your spells at the right place and the right time.
Vistha Kai4 votesThere are only few specific cases where a mage has infinite mana and that equals to having multiple mana regen and flat mana items.
Or are you trying to tell me buying Morellonomicon gives a mage infinite mana?
That's just idiotic.
Elikain5 votesI'm going by this assumption because a lot of people complained that reworking Morello's and Athene's destroyed their "one item to forget my mana sorrows" fantasy and because it is actually cheap enough for supporting mages to consider it.
And if that isn't the case (like you're saying), then mages always had to be careful with the usage of their spells and replacing mp/5 with flat mana doesn't actually have any specific weight to how mages will play their lanes out, outside of taking some getting used to. Which i understand, is the reason for complaining because "Change is not good and we don't like it".
On the contrary. "Change is good" 
TheWeatherWax2 votesUmm one item didn't fix mana problems. It just made it less of an issue, as in it came back just a tad faster than it did before which meant you could afford to run a full volley of spells (once, never more than once not just because of CDR but because you had to conserve mana to make sure that you could get away).. IE you finished Morello's and now you could cast 3 or 4 spells in a row without running out of mana or being critically low (depending on champ). Some champs could cast more than just 3 or 4 all in a row without pause (but those are more the utility style mages or Liss who gets some spells for free thanks to her passive). Before that you cast 1 spell, then waited till cdr and mana came back a tad, then cast again or you'd cast 3 in a row and then wait for the dorans to help rebuild mana and cd's to come up etc.. It was a waiting game always gauging just how much mana had come back and whether or not you had enough mana to run a volley of spells but trying to make sure you didn't run critically low so that when the enemy all-in'd you'd have enough to retaliate.
Generally speaking you needed 2 items but the regen meant that you could go a full volley without being critcally low. All mages are careful about their mana and are always careful about their mana. The entire reason they were "changing this" was to encourage mages to use their spells more often and not just use the lowest costing spell. Flat mana might help the early game with using more than the lowest spell or it might just make it worse. That does remain to be seen but in general mages aren't complaining that "buying one item" was the problem, the problem is an unreliable way of ensuring that your mana comes back. Without the item the mana regen is so very much lower and having an even larger pool makes Mages worry that mana will become a major issue when you need it most (team fights in the mid to late game). Previously, you still didn't spam your spells you used your lowest spell for waveclear and then saved as much as you could for a possible fight. If you didn't see anyone on the map and you wanted to back you'd throw as much at the wave to push it and then back.
Summary: Mages are worried that with larger mana pools it will take much longer to get to a high enough mana level to be able to operate in a team fight. Having lower cd's means more spells cast and higher mana pools means more ability to cast. However, low mana regen means that the high mana pool will take MUCH longer to refill at the base level mana regen for most mages. (For instance: Take any mage mid in a custom, spam spells till you run out of mana, watch how long it takes for the mana to regen on it's own. Many of us do this to see what our limits are for spell usage just to get a basic idea of how often we should cast each spell. Then do it again with Doran's ring.) Now imagine having a bigger mana pool to fill with that low of a regen rate.. This is what has mages worried. So having a higher mana pool and lower cd will not change mage behavior when it comes to spell casting in general because now they have the added worry of extremely low mana regen and higher pools to worry about filling up. Mages are worried that when it's critical without some sort of extra regen mechanic they will have to back before any team fights or objectives, not to buy but because the regen rate will be too low to sustain a higher mana pool and will make it unlikely they will be able to cast a full volley of spells to help in a team fight (as most mages are used for waveclear). Mages already have to back often to refill pools as it is (not all mages but again the ones with really high mana costs). As Mages are already critically aware of how long cd is for their spells and how much mana each spell takes the added problem of regen will make contesting a lot more difficult (more mana pools means longer time on the fountain to refill the mana enough to run the volley of spells). Mages already have to worry about mana pools, mana costs per spell and regen.. However previously there were options to help alleviate some of the worries and Mages are now worried that it will add more problems not less.
Irritations: Mages are fine with trade-offs for power, what they are not fine with is that every other class doesn't seem to have "gates" to their power and that Mage "power" doesn't seem to actually offer much in the way of power anymore. (Other classes "gates" seem to revolve around buying items and that's about it.)
RG Velean3 votesSee the problem is, that these changes will work well with the mage update, but are coming out way before the intended update, so it's currently going to harm the mages, and help them once they all get reworks
Elikain8 votesHow do you know that these changes are going to hit live before the Mage Update? It says that these items will hit PBE on patch cycle 6.9 and that doesn't mean that they will ship to live in 6.9.
NineTailedMystic3 votesThey're on PBE now though.
Xeynid2 votesWhich means riot is broken and nobody knows what's going to happen.
GaleWinUnleashed5 votesTo be fair, new Taric is amazing to play =P
WadeWilson13376 votesWell yes, anything stupidly overpowered and broken will be fun to play
VentusDragoon8 votesPlease don't be that guy that calls every new thing stupidly overpowered. New Taric plays just like old taric, just a bit more skill-shot based now.
Jesus is Savior6 votesPlease don't be that guy that calls every new thing stupidly overpowered. New Taric plays just like old taric, just a bit more skill-shot based now.
-> AoE Kayle ult
-> "Just like old Taric"
lol k
Elikain11 votesThat doesn't appear to be the case. Even if Taric's ult shares the same effect with Kayle, Bard and Kindred, the usage of all 4 is quite different.
Taric's ult has a delay, which means that it isn't good to preventing instant damage or as a response to a fight that you're already losing. It's good for prepared dives and sieges and having someone off an objective.
Kayle's ult is an anti-assassination/burst or a bait tool.
Bard's ult is a long range safe haven ora disable abiility that can buy you time - the same thing Stasis effect does.
Kindred's ult is a death prevention ability, that will leave you at 10% HP if you're having a fight in it and heal you for a flat amount after. It most usually is used as an equalizer and to give you a fighting chance 1v1 or just buying time.
IreliaCarrlesU3 votesdarling, your getting salt on my leg warmers
New Tool Album3 votesthis^
Narasimha8 votesThe jugg reworks aside from Mordekaiser had loads of balancing based on PBE feedback.
So THAT's how Skarner came out in such a balanced state!
TurquoiseYoshi8 votesThe feedback was overwhelmingly negative. People thought he was absurdly underpowered and definitely got the short end of the stick compared to anyone else. Repertoir listened, and Skarner was released in that state.
That's also how Darius got so strong, except he got his buff after the rework went live.
Irelia Bot28 votesThose items are going to be on the PBE for 2 patch cycles and Urf is likely going to not be there in a week so there is time for them to get used, abused, disregarded and changed.
The item are planned for 6.9 and live is on 6.7 meaning that once 6.8 hits there will still be another patch for balancing these items to some degree.
LatetotheRace12 votesStrategic planning on Riot's part. If we can divert their attention from the shiv going into their kidney, they won't resist as much.
Sire Hippington10 votesas if any balance was ever mad on pbe, even if people played normal games, matchmakeing lag and co make it nearly imposible to get relevant balanceing from it, and even if it were, riot probably still wouldn't care about any feedback that doesn't report a bug.
Strawberrycocoa10 votesThere always seems to be a "woops, we released it too OP, sorry folks" no matter how long it's on PBE, anyway. -_-
NightOfLight9 votesIm testing these items on ap lucian sooo thats a start
Slythion7 votesI've been waiting for over a year now, if I was accepted I would test the shjt out of Mages rn. I can wait for URF to come out for the real servers, I'm honestly more interested in testing the items so the game gets better. That's what the PBE is for, not getting early access to a fun gamemode
TotalJerk1 votesProtip: Apply again every few patches. If you actually got accepted, it will instantly tell you.
Slythion4 votesI may be going to the wrong site, but it doesn't give me the chance to reapply. It just says my application has been recieved or that it's pending, I can't remember which
Jbels5 votesI've been waiting for over a year now, if I was accepted I would test the shjt out of Mages rn. I can wait for URF to come out for the real servers, I'm honestly more interested in testing the items so the game gets better. That's what the PBE is for, not getting early access to a fun gamemode
I used to say the same thing before I had an account. But the PBE sucks, super bad. Nobody is there to test, loads of people are just there for the skins, and they're toxic as hell. Then they go and ban all of the new things that get released like the new champion, or a champion that gets an update, for fear it might be op and cost them a meaningless win. The PBE is a cesspool of people who don't care. I never go there anymore, and a while after having your account, neither will you
The Deckowner5 votesPBE had never done it's job really
Namazu Ebisu5 votesI don't think most people realize that Riot doesn't care that much about the feedback sometimes.
Let's be honest here, all bugs are reported on the PBE forum, it's just that Riot fails to see it.
As i navigate through the boards or reddit, i often see a random guy posting "this was reported on the PBE", hits front page and then gets fixed 2 patches later.
People start to lose faith and don't bother commenting anymore. I, myself, did so much work on reporting what i could and it just brings tears to my eye when it doesn't get fixed at all until some guy bragged about it on reddit...
Well, hope it gets better!
ForeverLaxx2 votesThat's because Riot just uses Reddit as their surrogate forum system, even going so far as to make announcements about their game on it INSTEAD of their own personal forums.
Big Lincoln4 votesI have been
Going through a good amount of the new items to see how they'll pan out on a couple of mages
Thing is, most of the mages I actually like are being included in the rework, including Viktor for some obscure reason, so it's hard to write on how helpful the items will actually be when we don't have the Mage update yet to go with it.
current thoughts: Catalyst is probably going to end up becoming a tank item that only a handful of brawler mages will actually want to use 
, even RoA is more or less better on those sorts since they'll have higher resists and the sustain to make better use of the passive. Mages are probably going to be either buying Archangel's or Morello's
I think the mana change was a good idea, but it feels like there's probably not enough mana in non-Tear items, which is a big reason a lot of mage players are irked about it. Doubling down on mana to keep yourself afloat for longer might be too difficult to manage for anyone who isn't Cassiopeia.
we'll have to see how it pans out in the long run. We have 2 patches before it hits live, plenty of time for them to change stuff
TotalJerk3 votesI'm imagining that catalyst will still be good if you expect to trade often, be it because you want to be aggresive or because you're opponent is being aggresive. Catalyst would allow you to outsustain them in that case.
Big Lincoln7 votesthe health gains per cast are really low so you either need to have a toggle/mana drain spell or really low CDs to make use of it
Shadragon5 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKxbXpWU,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-10T03:05:42.130+0000) I think the mana change was a good idea, but it feels like there's probably not enough mana in non-Tear items, which is a big reason a lot of mage players are irked about it. Doubling down on mana to keep yourself afloat for longer might be too difficult to manage for anyone who isn't Cassiopeia.
I cannot agree more. I really wish I had a PBE account still so I could try it out. I like the idea of shifting to max mana over mana regen, but the numbers are what worries me. 400 mana is very very little for most mages.
Jalkan4 votesTry testing for bugs in a custom game.
Messaiga4 votesI've tested things out a bit on PBE (Not in normals bc I haven't the time for that long of a queue), and here are a few observations:
Some of the "mana" items will not function well enough on their own. In extended scenarios where you have not backed for a while, a Morellonomicon or Rod of Ages is not likely to hold you over. These items give only 400 mana. They are very cheap which allows an early power-spike for AP casters, but I feel like the mana they give isn't enough.
Tear is actually quite strong in combination with Morellonomicon. Early tear -> Morellos rush results in 200+ AP with just these two items, and also gives you (practically) unlimited mana and eventually a large shield. On champions who spam a lot right now, I could see this becoming more popular.
The Hextech items are decent. They would be used in an item slot where (at the moment) you'd buy a Rylai's, or Zhonyas, or any current utility item. The dash active on one of them isn't very big, so I cannot imagine it being as game-changing as we'd think (though I could totally be wrong).
For champions who currently have more than 1 core non-mana item that they'll build nearly every game, their build diversity will suffer.
Psi214 votesI've tested things out a bit on PBE (Not in normals bc I haven't the time for that long of a queue), and here are a few observations:
Some of the "mana" items will not function well enough on their own. In extended scenarios where you have not backed for a while, a Morellonomicon or Rod of Ages is not likely to hold you over. These items give only 400 mana. They are very cheap which allows an early power-spike for AP casters, but I feel like the mana they give isn't enough.
Tear is actually quite strong in combination with Morellonomicon. Early tear -> Morellos rush results in 200+ AP with just these two items, and also gives you (practically) unlimited mana and eventually a large shield. On champions who spam a lot right now, I could see this becoming more popular.
The Hextech items are decent. They would be used in an item slot where (at the moment) you'd buy a Rylai's, or Zhonyas, or any current utility item. The dash active on one of them isn't very big, so I cannot imagine it being as game-changing as we'd think (though I could totally be wrong).
For champions who currently have more than 1 core non-mana item that they'll build nearly every game, their build diversity will suffer.
The only thing I agree with you is on number 4 and a little with 1.
There definitely is no AP spike especially with the reduction in AP and the new Items being flatly just too expensive. Fall behind ... don't get the kill you need or get boxed out of farm. Game over.
Riot balancing doesn't know the difference between a manaless champ like Kat doing sharp AP damage vs a mana heavy new champ completely useless in lane.
Circle some built up op bruisers with their new happy visage & warmogs shows how detached Rioters are from the inner workings of their game.
And the Morello + Tear is nothing to hype about especially since you could get 200 AP much fast in the live servers compared to PBE and massive nerf to mages.
The Hextech continue to show me that it was a bone thrown to mages to get them off Riots case. They are terribly situational and weak in their current state.
Bears Dont Care3 votesNver understood why the PBE was so limited...then again...I fail to see the purpose of the PBE.
Sleepcoma4 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uKxbXpWU,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2016-04-10T13:31:58.135+0000)
Nver understood why the PBE was so limited...then again...I fail to see the purpose of the PBE.
you get to play URF on the pbe
Lauchmelder4 votesWhich isn't really the reason people should get accepted to the PBE. Only those testing the new items/champions should be allowed to the PBE to fix bugs or they could simply make the PBE actually a Public Beta Environment without limitations.
KING 5HARK3 votesWhy do game modes that have been live already get on the testserver anyways?
GaleWinUnleashed3 votesThere's new champions to check. In fact, there was a post from Riot specifically asking us to test every new champion that has been released since the last time URF was up.
Solari Fortune3 votesThis is why I don't like URF on the PBE, nothing gets done I can barely even login
