But can you guys please stop blatantly flaming Rioters? The hate circlejerk is getting so bad that things that are flat out inaccurate or untrue are starting to get upvoted solely because they are anti-Riot.
Toastey35 votesDo you mean flaming certain Rioters in particular, or do you mean calling out the organisation as a whole? I think the second is perfectly valid if done logically and without too many expletives. For example, Riot seems to be dead set on a top-down game design model, which is terrible for balancing the game. I'm allowed to call that out, no?
TotalJerk12 votes"Calling out" Riot is okay, but I'm talking about the hourly posts loaded to the brink with vitriol, snark, insults, and worn out memes.
just a memory3 votes"Calling out" Riot is okay, but I'm talking about the hourly posts loaded to the brink with vitriol, snark, insults, and worn out memes.
No, no, no, No, NO! People have a right to freedom of speech. People have a right to make criticisms of people and companies without the peril of censorship.
Voltaire, "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Inoffensive speech does not needs defense, but speech that is considered offensive should be vigilantly defended, people should adopt the attitude voiced by the famous philosopher, Voltaire. Whether the opinions of these antagonists of Riot are legitimate and factual criticisms or slanderous, it matters not because it is still speech.
When Riot is wrong, it needs people to call them out on it. @TotalJerk, you misconstrue the critics of Riot and dismiss the opinions of all critics, throwing away the baby in the bathwater. Most critics of Riot use logic and good facts to back up their opinions, but you claim they are all rude and wrong. Sure, there will be people who are rude when addressing concerns about Riot, but even if they are rude, their anger, expressed in curse words, bears the weight of their frustration at Riot, and is still wholly legitimate.
Stop trying to defend Riot from criticism, you White Knight. You think Rioters are gonna cry because we call them out on their bullshit? Tough titties. It is a company and we have a right to criticize their practices. Riot has numerous counts of wrong-doing, including: -Refusal to update/overhaul their game engine -Refusal to add Voice Chat -Refusal to make a Replay system -Refusal to make Sandbox mode -Refusal to keep 3v3 and Dominion updated -Refusal to alleviate the numerous trolls in games -terrible game-balance -destroying the jungle diversity through 'Jungle Diversity' -Overloaded kits (CertainT, Yasuo, Thresh, Kalista, etc...) -playing favorites with Champions(Lee Sin) -nerfing champions into the ground (Evelynn, Olaf, Heimer, etc...) -leaving mega-nerfed champions in the trash for years (Evelynn, Olaf, Heimer, etc...) -destroying Champion identity through reworks (Karma, Mordekaiser, Fiora) -dismissing the righteous criticisms of the player-base -targeting and censoring journalists and critics through Reddit (R.L.) -dubious hiring practices (hiring people through Reddit) -Runes are too expensive -Runes are a mess -Rune pages are too expensive/shouldn't have to be bought -Soon (tm), seriously, everything is Soon (tm) with Riot. It takes years for Riot to fix their champions... -Constantly making up blatantly bad excuses for why they cannot accomplish the aforementioned.
Toastey20 votesmate did you read the constitution
freedom of speech protects you from government censorship, nothing more
Ayame Isaki7 votesThe sense of entitlement this guy espouses is astounding. I loved this part:
Stop trying to defend Riot from criticism, you White Knight. You think Rioters are gonna cry because we call them out on their bullshit? Tough titties. It is a company and we have a right to criticize their practices. Riot has numerous counts of wrong-doing, including:
Because clearly, all these things are against the law.
Onegarion2 votesClearly. I mean people don't just put things out there like that on the internet. People like him are the reason that discussions can't be had about real issues or solutions. It gets turned into "Freedom of speech" bs that for some reason is suppose to mean something when they clearly don't understand. Its sad the world we are coming to. Just makes me think of all the cop videos i saw awhile back where people were basically being rude and disorderly over simple request from cops just trying to do their job.
just a memory1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oq0Gq7RA,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-09T20:10:22.089+0000)
mate did you read the constitution
freedom of speech protects you from government censorship, nothing more Freedom of Speech is covered by the U.N., kinda makes it a global right. Even without the backing of law, people recognize that freedom of speech is paramount in a free society. Censorship should be abhorred.
[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oq0Gq7RA,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-09T20:40:47.333+0000)
The sense of entitlement this guy espouses is astounding. I loved this part:
Because clearly, all these things are against the law. Whether what Riot has done is against the law or not is not the point of my piece. I argue simply that people be allowed to say their piece. That does not mean anyone should be forced to listen to them, simply that their piece be available if people wish to listen.
...Although... some of Riot's hiring practices may in fact be illegal. Riot has been hiring Reddit moderators from the League subReddit. Also, Riot has been requiring Reddit Moderators in the league Sub Reddit to sign NonDisclosure Agreements. That is collusion and smells fishy. That means Riot has not only the ability to shut down dialogues on their own website, but also on Reddit. Riot essentially has a monopoly on the public forums. No company should have a monopoly on places of free speech.
Sightless663 votesThat is not criminal collusion. Collusion and deceitful practices have strict legal definitions. Hiring people who make public forums does not apply, particularly since creating a new forum is not challenging and there is very little potential for that hiring to result in illegal business practices or any financial deception. By any legal standard, this is completely, 100% legal.
You can argue that we should be suspicious of it, and there is at least a small point to that (although I would not consider this any real kind of free speech concern given how easy it is to express any kind of opinion here), but there is a massive gap between a slightly unscrupulous practice and an illegal practice.
DeynaTaggerung2 votesYeah they could...except technically it is their stuff and they can do what they want with it. Just like if you went and held a rally on someone's private property, it would be within their rights to kick you out, is that destroying freedom of speech? not really, you can just kindly take your Riot somewhere else.
Not only that, when did the boards and reddit suddenly become a monopoly? You are free to go bitch and complain(provided they were indeed censoring such things) on any site on the internet that will allow you to which is outside their control.
All that aside Riot hasn't shut down any of the flaming going against them so far so it's not like they're actually trying to create a fake image of their perfect selves. They're just trying to keep an eye on all discussion and ....why am I even responding >.>
The Virgin Perry3 votesI bet you are the kind of person that is voting for trump
O8CwnL6ujq1 votesI bet you are the kind of person that is voting for trump
I bet you are the type still voting, and following the right-left circle jerk paradigm. Your boy Barry is more conservative than Bush was. Not trying to be political but since you brought it up...
T RexHasTinyArms4 votesWhile there is certainly a right to free speech and I would defend the right to say whatever offensive and foolish thing someone wants to say, there is no need to agree with something just because a person says it. I defend your right to say something just as I defend my right to call you a fool, and tell you you have no room to be heard. I am not riot so I do not have ownership of the boards to tell you you cannot post, but I can advocate that an educated community would expect better from each other and would down vote offensive or poorly articulated beliefs.
After all, the right to free speech is certainly a need within society, but there is not, and should not be a right to distribution. If an idea or person is so uneducated that people do not wish to listen to them or provide them space to espouse their stupidity, then they cannot be forced to do so anymore than the idiot can be forced to change their mind or kept from sharing their option in forums that want to hear them.
Yormaughm1 votes^All of this.
And boy do I wish that more people knew this and acted on this.
T RexHasTinyArms2 votes:P I still switch to twitch any time lolesports brings up azubu as a player automatically. I usually use youtube, but try to use twich when it auto sends me to azubu because I just don't like the company's behavior and switching to support the viewer count of the competition rather than just switching to youtube is a better attempt to express my opinion in terms of financial impact to a company.
Shosuko3 votesFreedom of Speech is not extended to the internet. That is a US constitution thing, and as others have stated, is about protecting you from discrimination and other persecutions because of your expressions.
It is not something Riot hosting a forum has to tolerate, nor do we have to tolerate it. Nor should we not also call you out on your attitude.
T RexHasTinyArms2 votesI mean it is extended to the internet, but in the context of "the government can't shut down your website bc you're running campaign adds for someone in a party not in power" rather than the context of "riot owns this server and cannot regulate it." Just because riot could ban any account they wanted for something posted on the forums, doesn't mean that freedom of speech does not apply. In fact it kind of means it does apply more so, because riot owns the servers and forum, so they have the freedom to express themselves by banning people from using their privately owned forums, while at the same time, anyone who wants to express something riot will ban them for (homophobic, racist, sexist remarks etc) is free to buy their own infrastructure to distribute their opinion.
Edit: I get what you're trying to say I think, it's just worded in a way that is (like the post it's responding to) not entirely factual in its representation of the rules/law.
Solaxo5 votes"Calling out" Riot is okay, but I'm talking about the hourly posts loaded to the brink with vitriol, snark, insults, and worn out memes.
Such attitude is a result of Riot making the same mistakes and being arrogant and dishonest for YEARS. Players are tired of it.
Silents4295 votesBy players you mean the 200 people that keep upvoting the garbage posts?
In regards to the games current state I am pretty content, silently waiting on some reworks in no rush.
In regards to the people this post may refer too, the game has been apparently going downhill, this is the worst patch ever, the game was better in Season # blah blah blah, it's been done for years now.
I haven't witnessed them act arrogant or dishonest, but if that's what the "people" want to see then that's what they are going to see.
Anidan1 votesSeasons 1 and 2 were the best for me. Though, I also know that I am blatantly looking through some very rosy glasses because I was very new at the time, so everything kinda filled me with a sense of wonder. The more I played and learned, the less wonder I could be filled with as I had grown accustomed to the game and it became a granted familiarity to me.
Despite Seasons 1 and 2 being my personal favorites, it really feels like the Tank Meta a good while back was the most diverse the game has been in a very long while. Everyone had their role, but no role had importance that out-shone any other role, so no matter which role you decided upon you would be relevant.
As for arrogance and dishonesty.. I haven't really seen anything particularly shady since I stopped seeing things from Moneypenney a really long time back, since before the move to the boards. In fact, maybe several months before then. The only terribly shady part I recall on League's part was the money part, and that was because it was legitimately sketchy. I remember back when Phreak and Morello patrolled the boards talking of balance less as an emissary of Riot, but as themselves.. I miss those days.
Silents4291 votesI remember back when Phreak and Morello patrolled the boards talking of balance less as an emissary of Riot, but as themselves.. I miss those days.
This has more to do with how the boards tend to aggressively ask questions or demand there presence, in lighter posts asking for context you can find them writing out some lengthy thoughts on the context, which is better then them having to correct false quotes and misunderstandings.
I am not shy to say the League boards are a terrible representation of the League community.
Circuit Bear15 votesI will continue being sarcastic with Riot till they start balancing in a consistent way that doesn't show favoritism frankly. Cause right now? I'm expecting another Lee Sin/Elise top priority championships and another Vayne world championship skin and probably a thresh. Cause when do thresh and Lee ever get to be not top tier? I have a giant stack of complaints but that is the best summary I can make.
Silents4292 votesWhy is being top tier a bad thing?
Were always going to have one, and a champion always being top tier doesn't make it bad thing, if anything trying to force different champions in and out of the top tier is vastly worse then anything they are doing now.
Miku Hime sama4 votesThe problem is when the tiers are dictated by Riot's blatantly biased changes, rather than by logic and game-balancing. When we see Lee Song being a top-tier pick every single season since year 1, whereas say Shaco has never had a single pro game, then balance has failed.
CubedJustice1 votesJust pointing out, shaco's had professional play.
Miku Hime sama1 votesWas that recent? Cause at the start of season 5, his pick-rate was still 0 games.
CubedJustice1 votesKikis of UoL played Shaco during the spring split. He did well.
Linthe1 votesJust pointing out, shaco's had professional play.
You mean the 1 Kikis game from spring split 2015 when Kikis was still on UOL?
CubedJustice1 votesYeah. It's not a ton, but it's something.
slippykitten7 votesThis is an anthropological question that deserves insight into the mind of the average person.
If problems are left unattended, is hyperbole going to drive the point home quicker? Is it reasonable to expect people that are being ignored not to increase their level of aggressive over time? is being passionate about the product you are consuming indicative of dissatisfaction on the whole?
My answer to you is that if people are becoming angry at the performance of Riot, they really only have that method of expressing themselves and their dissatisfaction.
Yormaughm2 votesI found this really interesting, but the last question: "Is being passionate about the product you are consuming indicative of dissatisfaction on the whole?" is a strange one.
Like, I don't see people who are like "I hate Coke products!" drink Coke all the time and talk about the good all days when Coke used to not suck. Usually when people are dissatisfied with a product they move on to something else. Unless your question was more like "general dissatisfaction" with like, life or something.
Miku Hime sama1 votesIn the case of Coke, you have to spend to consume. League is a free product, people will continue playing out of habit because it does not require non-renewable resources. Rather, players show their dissatisfaction by ceasing to buy RP for skins and icons, as I have done.
Anidan1 votesIt's more a case of loving something so much that its flaws are magnified to you because you want it to be even greater, and because you know it has the potential to be more than that. Coke really doesn't make a great example of that, but games and television serials, and book series are great examples of that. You can see the changes before your very eyes, and you can see the great heights the work aspires to, and you know it can reach those lofty limits: Then these certain flaws come up, possibly continually over time, that limits its ascent like weights on the ankles of an angel.
Yormaughm1 votesI've always felt that this is the mindset that the "lore" people have. "This could be so much better if I was in charge of it, or if Riot would listen to my ideas." People disagree with changes that happen, but perhaps they're too attached to a product that they didn't make in the first place and don't own, and therefore assign too much "ownership" to themselves. I can see though how this applies to "balance changes" as well. "If Riot had done this" or "why don't you just do this" is kind of a symptom of someone taking ownership of the game when they aren't the one in the position to actually do or affect those changes, then getting fed up or crestfallen that the changes they want aren't made because in their minds the product could be so much better.
BoxOfDOG4 votesWhat's got most people real bothered is CertainlyT.
While some changes he makes aren't that bad, most of what he's contributed to the development of this game has been rather negative. I get that the frequent posts is a bit excessive, but people are people and they REALLY don't like what CerT is doing to LoL and for good a reason.
Miku Hime sama1 votesOn the other hand, you have some employees who have made ONLY bad decisions in their employment at Riot. Look at Fearless for example: he created a failed rework that he forced to Live despite unanimous community outrage and then immediately abandoned it the moment the patch hit Live. He then proceeded to ruin the jungle rework by nerfing every jungle champion whilst simultaneously increasing every last jungle monsters' damage output and durability. Once again he abandoned that project immediately too and Riot had to bring in somebody else to fix the horrendous mess, which took 4 or more patches because of how bad of a mess he'd created.
All the while, Fearless only came onto these boards to blatantly condescend and lie to the players that spoke out against the changes. I even tried discussing them with him personally a few weeks ago on Twitter and he could only bother flinging insults at me.
Garlyle Wilds4 votes"is getting" so bad?
I've been here since season 2, people's being absolutely asinine is nothing new at all.
Retnus4 votesI couldn't agree more. I get where people are frustrated about something being imbalanced, ignored, or pushed aside, if they feel such is happening. In a game with such a large scope, there's going to be oversights. There's no avoiding that, because we don't live in a perfect world. Thing is, yeah, Riot can definitely improve on some things. Nerfs happen, buffs happen, and the game will be in constant flux due to the nature of the game. Heck, that's how DotA worked since it's iteration.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Riot. I even have my own disagreements with some of the changes and things they've done. I've been playing this game since closed beta, so trust me when I say that I've seen a lot. ;P Before that, I played DotA when it was coming out of its beta stages(what a bizarre game it was back then!). Mobas are just constantly changing and evolving games as a whole. Expect good times, expect bad times. Plenty of "League of Black Cleaver" times...release Zhao, release Vayne. Don't get me started on DotA's Gambler, and release Invoker.
There's plenty of other examples, but you get my drift. I disagreed with the ideas, changes, or numbers involved. Some things were fixed quickly, others weren't. Here's the deal though. I didn't pick up my pitchfork and start banging on the doors of the companies that made the games I played. They're games guys. You choose to spend money on them or not. Don't like them? Don't support them, and instead take your business to somewhere else. There's no problem with doing that, because everyone's time is important to them in different ways and relevance. It doesn't mean you should flip tables in unadulterated rage though. State your reasons you disagree, get people to notice. Don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs if it means that much to you, but lay off the foaming-mouth rage please.
For the ones that this comment means anything to, lets stop giving people a reason to scoff at gamers. We aren't a bunch of raging 10-year olds here. We have passion for our games, we want to see them shine, and feel we've invested our time wisely. Be the people that show that passion, WITHOUT the vitriol and hate. It's more than a hobby for most of us nowadays, but rather a lifestyle. We all have our reasons for gaming, and we should be proud of those reasons. We shouldn't be detracting from that with all the hostility that goes on these days. Lets change that, shall we?
just a memory2 votesWell worded my friend. Well thought out.
I have grievances with Riot, some lasting from a few years back. I spoke my mind then, even got to talk to Rioters about the relevant subjects. I am still passionate, but I remain civil and refrain from unwarranted name calling. I try to use logic and to debate the negatives and positives of Riot's actions. But all the civil discussion and logic is damnably useless when trying to discuss subjects with Riot when they refuse to acknowledge their failures and give lame excuses. Ultimately, everyone that tries to legitimately critique Riot is blown off by the likes of Morello and others.
Making mistakes is not the problem. It's Riot's continual and habitual routine of making the same mistakes and never learning from their past ones.
I hope that you enjoy your next League game.
Lugg3 votesI think people get mad because there are so many great and easy fixes that get put on the board, and Riot totally ignores them.
SecretAgentHulk2 votesRiot doesn't ignore so much as not engage with all of them. They say this often. Also, just because they disagree with or don't implement a solution doesn't mean they've ignored it.
And even if Riot did totally ignore them, that's still no excuse for people being a bunch of whiny flaming babies.
Lugg1 votesI agree with you, I'm just saying that's where some of it comes from.
TyroneWatermelon3 votesWe are not flaming rioters,by Riot we mean balance team
fk off my screen3 votesi'm betting OP was paid by rito to post this.
SecretAgentHulk2 votesYep. No way someone would actually just think treating people with respect is a good thing.
Miku Hime sama2 votesIf Rioters choose to disrespect us, why is it necessary that we respect them? I've personally and publicly been flamed by Riot employees multiple occasions including here on the boards, on Twitter and even via email from Player Support.
There are completely justified reasons players hate specific Riot employees, it's not unfounded.
SecretAgentHulk2 votesIf a specific employee has personally disrespected you, whatever. I'd advocate keeping it private, between the two of you, but in any case it's very different from what most of the flamers on Boards are complaining about. What you say or have experienced does not make the idea any less ridiculous that OP was paid by Rito to post.
Miku Hime sama1 votesWhat you say or have experienced does not make the idea any less ridiculous that OP was paid by Rito to post.
Perhaps not payed by them, but it's very likely he himself is a Riot employee posting on his personal account. How do I know you aren't? How do you know I'm not?
Riot is a large company with a lot of employees. Most of whom already played League before being hired.
SecretAgentHulk2 votesHint: Rioters have red names, while the rest of us just have boring yellow names.
Miku Hime sama2 votesNot on their private accounts. Which I was referring to. That should've been obvious...
Knight SoIaire 2 votesi cant agree
the thing is about those "concerns" you mentioned
i personally had a load of concerns ... made load of threads which got either ignored or downvoted for certain reasons (people didnt read what i wrote and jumped to conclusions) and what do i get now ... i dropped lol .. the game changed and it is nothing like the lol i enjoyed and the only thing that i see is riot pushing it even further
my concern was always that riot has no direction in their work ... they push random features into the game or directly into champions kit's just because they consider them "fun" ... no one of them considers that giant chunk of our fun is tied to a competitive gameplay
the effect is that diferent parts of their game just dont fit with eachother
in the end i didnt flame riot ... but i would feel better if i did, now i find more strategy in cs go than in lol ... you get it ... an fps has more strategy than moba (and cs go is not an fps with a load of strategy ... they focus on tactic not the strategy ... meaning there is something wrong with lol which is basicaly a tweaked rts)
now to the main point ... riot kinda deserves the flame ... for many things first one is that they dont put much effort into not failing second one is that they dont correct all their fails ... in fact most of the time they just band aid fix and leave it to rot third thing is that they dont accept any disaproval from our side ... if you disagree ... well fk you ... the only thing that you can tell them is either praise or a proposition that they find funny ... but you cant say that they fked up and demand a fix
which leaves us the players and the payers ... in a realy bad spot where riot is having tonns of fun while tweaking the game ... and we get shit every time their changes arent as fun as they think