Taliyah has a 36.32% winrate right now

TotalJerk·May 21, 2016·134 votes·16,926 views

[S6] Taliyah Middle - Champion Statistics (Item Build, Skill Order, Summoner Spell, Runes, Masteries) - League of Legends

Reminder that new champions should not be allowed in ranked.

179 Comments

Michael SykesMay 21, 201639 votes

I don't understand why people try a new champion in ranked...

I WILL TROLL YOUMay 21, 201633 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZYij9hi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-21T15:32:09.950+0000)

I don't understand why people try a new champion in ranked...

Ranked = training grounds. Get with the program.

YumaS2AstralMay 21, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beer Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lZYij9hi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-21T15:50:07.115+0000)

Ranked = training grounds. Get with the program.

I hope that this is a joke

Dextix LTMay 21, 201629 votes

With dynamic in place? Not really...

Vistha KaiMay 21, 20169 votes

What's the difference between Dynamic Queue and Normals?

Shiny.

TotalJerkMay 21, 201669 votes

Because they're inconsiderate and have no problem wasting 4 other people's time.

Michael SykesMay 21, 201611 votes

it is not that they are only wasting other peoples time, they make them lose lp and the game becomes totally unfun

Photos of GhostsMay 22, 20163 votes

Aka, wasting time.

CarbRundumMay 21, 201620 votes

*9 other people

DarkRitualMay 21, 201613 votes

They hope to throw the enemy offguard by playing something they don't know how to play against.

AlleoMay 21, 20168 votes

Some people play customs/normals as soon as the champion is out so that either later in the day/the next day they can take that champion into ranked against people that won't know how to play against them. I played 1 ranked game with taliyah and won on the day she came out. I also have played many games against a taliyah and won lane easily. It depends on the person and how much time they put into the champion before taking them into ranked.

With people saying new champs shouldn't be in ranked...does that mean every reworked champ we get shouldn't be in ranked? Because with that logic 2/3 of the mage update champs shouldn't have been in ranked post mage update since they were essentially "new champions"

General Esdeath May 21, 201610 votes

They played 1 game in normals and watched Redmercy, Anklespankin, Wingsofdeath, and other YouTubers play her, so now they main her. Right?

AlistarzeoMay 21, 20165 votes

That's why i've 66% winrate on ranked

But i'm a pbe player too, so i'm not kinda new with her...

KR Fried ChickenMay 22, 20162 votes

Some people like me have PBE so they've played 15+ games with taliyah before it went live. But those who have not, I agree with u that its just being incosiderate.

Secret Butt FunMay 21, 201626 votes

Her base kit isn't strong enough to fulfill the damage loss from a full utility ultimate. Unlike a lot of other champions with "utility ults," she cannot use hers in combat with another mid laner unless she leaves lane to "gank" her own lane just to wall them off, which brings me to another point; the wall cast direction SUCKS.

Unlike other champions ( Azir Anivia Trundle ) that can create terrain, it feels as though her wall is a lot less reliable. She telegraphs the wall before it is even made, it has an incredible show cast time, it does no damage, and the very reason that she cass it from a vertical perspective. If you want to block something off, you have to position yourself ALL THE WAY AROUND something just to get at an angle to make your wall do what you want it to do ... Or you can play Anivia and cast an INSTANT wall at any angle you want.

Despite all of her "mobility, " she is probably the single most clunky champion I've seen on release in a long time.

I propose some changes to her that include removing the "pre wall" buffer so as to remove her telegraphing, some minor number tweaks, and increased range of her pathetic "zoning" E field.

Sypher The PoroMay 21, 201618 votes

Don't forget her wall is a glorified Jarven ult, so any champion with any dash/tumble can go through it.

Blue Moon WolfMay 21, 20164 votes

I could see her E being used to her advantage in that case, but that would be really hard, if not near impossible to time her ult so she can cast her E under an enemy before they dash over the wall. The best use I've seen for it so far is to block off the enemy when trying to take their nexus. Not sure how helpful it is, but it's still funny to watch them try to get passed the wall to save their nexus.

AstraliftMay 22, 20166 votes

And yet her wall is actually ridiculously powerful. Let's not kid ourselves. An Anivia wall will block an immediate path, but that's it. She also isn't as mobile. And that's where Taliyah comes in. She can block entire regions of the map, making escape impossible. You can trap people in their base, in their spawning pool, in baron, flank and block entire escape routes AND negate enemy ally help... You just have to be creative and get used to positioning with her. She doesn't play like the other mages. Don't play her like them or you'll lose.

BomjusMay 22, 20163 votes

this^ had a taliyah wall off river so they could take drag for free. It also creates some pretty sticky situations in teamfights if you cut a team in half.

MeDicenWeraMay 22, 20164 votes

Absolutely correct. Stonewall described it wll, same here. Honestly, that kit is just incredibly... telegraphed. If you ge hit from anything anything other than the first hit of Q something's wrong with you.

She's incredibly unreliable, honestly, and what even is that Ult. I don't even think numerical buffs will boost her win rate, the problem is the kit.

ElikainMay 22, 20162 votes

Her ult is a mobility tool first and foremost, with the added bonus of creating a long wall to block paths when you gank or stop the enemy from chasing your team. Taliyah's ult is not meant to be her "get out of jail for free" card. You have the option of riding on top of the wall to reach fights easier and surprise enemies or you can just wall someone off without putting yourself in danger and wait for your team.

Because Talyah's ult is pure utility, her skills have high AP ratios and have more than enough damage to kill you in a 3 hit combo. Her Q and E especially, when her W throws you on her E and in the line of a full 5 hit combo Q. Her build revolves around building tanky + added CRD on items, her skills are just spamable all day.

The only time i've seen Taliyah lose is when she goes glass cannon and doesn't get CDR.

ShadulaMay 21, 201623 votes

I knew she would suck ass

-No reliable damage -No reliable CC -Her E is quite literally non-existant unless you combo with your W, which in that perfect scenario still does the same damage as say an ahri combo which is alot easier to hit -Her Ult is your only escape mechanism, and the perfect scenario is walling off someone during a gank but with all the dashes and blinks around right now you will be lucky if you catch someone with a dash or blink.

For me the worst offender is her Q. I love the mechanic were she can continuously lay down punishment from a distance, however....IT LITERALLY WORKS AGAINST ITSELF

You actually get punished for continuously spamming that, one volley doesn't even do much damage let alone one puny rock. The whole premise (as i see it) of taliyah is to be dishing out damage consistently to the point where she can deal magic damage as fast as an adc can deal physical damage. However her Q has some sort of reverse-synergy that you stop dealing any (if at all) if you are trying to hold an objective. Say your taking position on baron, better wait till a fight starts or else you'll be throwing one pebble every 2 seconds and doing not much of anything else.

Her Q is only good when an enemy is chasing you, cause then your Q actually wont work against itself. I had it happen to me, a Thresh and Rengar chased me from drag to baron and I can tell you it was alot of fun kiting them with my Q. I still died cause im a bad taliyah, but at that moment I felt like i was doing something because their health was being widdled down to the point of them dying. If i was any better they wouldve died lol.

But my point still stands, she has no reliable anything and her main damage source works against itself.

TotalJerkMay 21, 20163 votes

It's not about her power level, it's skewed by assholes who have no idea what they're doing first timing her in ranked. Except for cases when a champion was horribly and indisputably broken on release (Rek'Sai) this ALWAYS happens.

JESUSSAYSNOMay 21, 201616 votes

{quoted}

It's not about her power level, it's skewed by assholes who have no idea what they're doing first timing her in ranked. Except for cases when a champion was horribly and indisputably broken on release (Rek'Sai) this ALWAYS happens.

no, its really not. she has the easiest kit to use since reksai. her skill cap and skill floor are 3 games apart. She is outright weak and offers nothing to a teamcomp. her counterplay outweighs her strength.

LuxannaVeritasMay 21, 20163 votes

I wouldn't say that her kit is EASY, per se... but at least it's approachable.

Seriously, I've talked with a few summoners that have played Taliyah for the first time, and they have trouble landing their W's a lot. It's even harder to throw enemies into Taliyah's E as well.

JESUSSAYSNOMay 21, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't say that her kit is EASY, per se... but at least it's approachable.

Seriously, I've talked with a few summoners that have played Taliyah for the first time, and they have trouble landing their W's a lot. It's even harder to throw enemies into Taliyah's E as well.

having trouble landing a skillshot with that long of a delay isnt based on user error. Its just as long as chogath's Q and against any competent player or even an incompetent player on a champion with mobility, it's generally a pretty useless and situational. most you can consistently do is force a dash over your E, but most of the time, they wont even need to to avoid the skill

ZT XperimentorMay 21, 201618 votes

Not as bad as syndra when she was released, ~27%

Vistha KaiMay 21, 20162 votes

Pretty much the lowest winrate in the history of LoL. Unless Season 1/2 veterans can correct me.

But in her case that was a mix of god-awful number of bugs and low numbers.

ForeverLaxxMay 21, 20163 votes

Not many people were keeping a close watch on winrates way back then because Riot didn't always love to cite that value as a reason for buffs/nerfs. In addition to this, most sites that would have this kind of information don't seem to have a snapshot log, or any sort of history log for that matter. I've been playing since Season 1 and I can't really recall any champion having a winrate this poor on release. The closest are more recent releases, like Bard, which says to me that the designers today are trying to be too gimmicky with kits instead of putting function at the forefront.

Critmaster GarenMay 21, 20167 votes

i like how that one guy gave me shit about banning out completely new released champions when my teammates show pick intent.

this is exactly why you should ban them out and not take any chances.

ive banned out a guy who wanted to pick her, after i looked into his match history. his last 5 games on her, he fed 15 to 20 kills each game.

srry, but i want to climb. if you want to learn a new champion, go into a fucking normal.

JESUSSAYSNOMay 21, 20167 votes

This isn't an issue with people not knowing hot to play her. she has a very basic kit and wouldnt take more than 2 games to learn gameplay patterns on. She isn't riven or zed or somebody who requires endless animation canceling and positioning placement to play optimally. this isn't a hard champ to play, and its an even easier champ to play against. there are no tricks or combos really.

The issue is that she has 0 reliable damage, all of it is based on skillshots or countering dashes, and using her Q in fights for optimal damage is very difficult to pull off due to the worked ground mechanic. her threat potential is overshadowed by the potential to avoid 100% of her damage.

SincarnationMay 22, 20166 votes

I problem isn't just her damage, its the consistency Q - On un-worked earth hurts like a bitch if you hit everything, if you are on worked earth its laughable (pure damage no utility) W - Hard to land, decent damage, good utility E - Initial hit easy to lane low damage, 2nd proc hard to hit does slightly more iirc, however if someone dashes through it HURTS LIKE A BITCH (Decent zoning tool, but despite how much people complain about mobility creep there are a lot of champs especially in mid lane that don't dash because they are just less mobile or they have blinks R - Great Utility 0 damage

Optimal situations Taliyah can put out a lot of burst really quickly, but her power has too many conditions tied to it. Q must be in some place you havent fought in for a few minutes, W is just hard to land, E needs people to dash through or to land the W

TacosrockMay 21, 20165 votes

I think it's just because of the fact that her kit is incredibly underpowered, as Worked ground for Q takes a while to disappear, her W has a long cast time before it actually does something, her E has a small range, but her R is rather fair. Her ratios are pretty bad too. If you say that new champions should not be allowed in ranked, how long, then, should they wait until they can play that champion in ranked? It doesn't take very long to get used to a champion, although that may be just me. FeelsbadTaliyah Taliyah item 3070

Fashion MageMay 21, 20165 votes

Taliyah has made a new tier, a tier below Urgot tier.

SeraphielXMay 21, 20165 votes

She's really interesting. She's difficult to use well. It takes skill to land her abilities and unless your opponent has just finished off half a pound of weed they'll be able to walk away from half of your combo.

Because of that, she's mostly useless. There are so many easy mode champs around that someone this complicated is just a liability.

Q: The worked ground either lasts too long, covers too much area, or both. It's hard enough to line up a skill shot, much less a chain of 5 shots, but with this she ends up zoning herself by her own powers. W: Fine, I guess. The delay on recasting it leaves it with limited usefulness for maneuvering enemies.
E: It's nice to have a slow, but maybe being able to manually trigger the second hit would help? Most of the time all this thing does is screw up some last hits on minions. R: Mostly garbage. It does no damage, it has no usefulness as an escape, and its sole utility only works if she is waaaaaay out of position-- at a strange angle-- from whatever's going on. Combine that with all the dash/hop/bounce/whatever abilities around and it barely even works as a wall. It should at the very least do damage to anyone attempting to traverse it.

She'd be quite entertaining in any other game. Just not this one. She'll soon join the 80% of champs that don't get played anymore.

Sythriel DrakenMay 22, 20165 votes

I mentioned it on the PBE that her numbers needed tweaking, especially her single q, but riot ignores it. Her E does need to pop more quickly tho, as right now it detonates slower than an ekko W cast..

LichKing234May 21, 20164 votes

now when i play ranked i auto ban new champs just so either that one person who thinks ranked is training grounds for new champs and so enemy team dotn get shafted

DarkRitualMay 21, 20164 votes

She has modest utility, and her damage is just not very high. I've been playing her as a support in normals recently. She has good poke/bully potential, but again, the damage and utility are very meh compared to others that share a similar role/buildpath (Zyra).

She is super fun to play though.

kaltenashesMay 21, 20161 votes

i'm trying to play her support, but i'm awful at doing her e w combo

still cant do it

she's fun tough, her ult is awesome to gank, i dont even use her dash that often, i use to block reinforcements and escapes

DarkRitualMay 21, 20162 votes

When you get someone popped up, you have a split moment to drop the e under them and have them pass through it. You can't w from max range, or you wont be close enough to get them into the E field.

WacingTheFindMay 21, 20164 votes

What were you expecting? She left Yasuo without finishing her training.

BeedleMay 22, 20163 votes

I've done very well with her. Win rates really mean nothing when a new champ is released.

People say her abilities are unreliable and avoidable, but I really dont think they are any more avoidable than most abilities, aside from point and click ones. I almost never have trouble landing my full combo, especially after Rylai's. Her worked ground is not hard to work around either.

But I do hope people are stupid and think she sucks, cuz then I won't have any trouble picking her in champ select :)

MuseCubMay 21, 20162 votes

Rank and normals is basically the same game mode to me i see no difference in the two

TotalJerkMay 21, 20166 votes

So then practice your champion in normals first, then? The thing about practicing in normals is that you're not ruining anyone's elo in the process of trying to figure out how a champion works.

Rockm SockmMay 23, 20162 votes

You act like ranked isn't a bigger joke than normals this season.

S6 is literally a shit show.

Who cares about ranked at this point.

Tali is an objective focused mage that requires teamwork. Of course the Winrate is trash.

kaltenashesMay 21, 20161 votes

and so did a sol when he was released, he had a small win rate as far i as remember, and look at his win rate now

look at champs win rate after around 1 month its release to see the actual win rate, people need time to learn how to play champ

Meep ManMay 21, 20168 votes

Sol was pretty fair when he first came out, about 47% I think, which is pretty ok for someone who just came out.

SpongebobIsLifeMay 21, 20165 votes

yeah i think this is right. Her numbers are a lot more comparable to release bard.

Sightless66May 21, 20163 votes

and so did a sol when he was released, he had a small win rate as far i as remember, and look at his win rate now

Not this bad. His first 3 days ended at around 45%. That's pretty standard for most new champions. 36% is closer to release Bard or release Syndra, and it's a pretty clear marker that the champion is underpowered.

Learning the champion isn't going to shoot her winrate up the 13% she'd need to just be average. She's no Azir.

kaltenashesMay 22, 20163 votes

a.sol is at 52.76%, but i also doubt eyebrow's winrate will raise around 10%

yeah there's also the possibility that she's underpowered