So... 65 AD on big attack damage items (down from 80)

ModKnightsKemplar·Oct 31, 2015·7 votes·768 views

Just wondering, amid the "adc meta" complaints, if anyone wanted to make sure they noticed that? That's a pretty big deal, imo.

29 Comments

DreadlocksOct 31, 20154 votes

Have you played on the pbe yet? I mean... ADCs are really strong right now.. especially Graves lol.

edit: oh and BT lost 5 AD but you can stack the lifesteal now :P

ModKnightsKemplarOct 31, 20152 votes

I have not played it yet, and this is exactly the sort of comment I was fishing for. I hear a lot of people whining, and not a lot of experience.

If you have played, and you think they're strong, I won't argue. I just have a problem with all the whining about how no adc items got nerfed. It's patently untrue. Clearly, they did. And if they are still too strong, It will change more, I'm sure.

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

Everything is up in the air right now, and unless sm1 is actually testing it on the pbe the opinion is weak. Even on the pbe its flawed because the pbe isnt nearly as good as the live servers in terms of team play. Most ppl just play pbe to try something out-skins, buffs, nerfs etc. They dont play for the team they play for their own experiment.

That being said, I have found the most unique part of the pbe right now to be the mastery system. Nothing is standard anymore.. at least not yet.

They've added and changed a lot of items that affect more than just ADCs. I think the biggest change is the amount of CDR in AD items now. Its actually insane if you look at them all. And the cheap armor pen cdr item Brutilizer is gone, and now armor pen is on maw with a passive similar to guinsoo's rageblade. Their is soooo much shit that has changed, ADCs are probably effected the least if you ask me... i mean Tiamat doesnt even cleave anymore..

TL;DR everyone is being fucked with not just ADCs. And no that ad nerf to i.e doesnt seem to be mattering.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 31, 20151 votes

Good perspective. I can't wait to get in there on live and try these changes myself, in whatever state they are in when they get shipped. It sounds like a blast to me, as usual. XD

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

Aside from the masteries, they pretty much separated all the items. You got the Lifesteal items, Your crit items, Your CDR items, and your Armor pen items. Very little mixing.. Unless you're talking about item 3508 which has CDR AD Crit and mana return on hit.. sounds soo good on rengar until you look at the mana part.. but fuck it might be worth it for the other stats who knows lol.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 31, 20151 votes

I've been rushing item 3508 on Varus for a long time. I probably still will. Great item, for the right champs.

DreadlocksOct 31, 20152 votes

That item honestly sounds strong as hell on caster ADCs because you basically get 30% cdr after 1 other crit item, plus the crit chance from this item and the other item you bought. You get the mana return, the only thing you're missing is lifesteal at that point. Which is generally a 4th item pick up anyways (BT) unless you are a botrk builder. (vayne)

Zair UmbrasOct 31, 20151 votes

Or you're Ez. Ez will forever be sad in the corner. Damn you crit META! QQ

Slamurai JackOct 31, 20151 votes

Ez gets 40% CDR with just ER Tri, and he gets 40% crit to boot. Sad Ezreal where?

Zair UmbrasOct 31, 20151 votes

Q don't crit, man. The Q don't crit.... Loss of 5 AD on BT, 5 on Trinity, 15 on Essence, and ER only procs when you crit.

Ez is very, very, very sad. He went from Q for days without a care in the world to having to actually use his AA's on the minions to get mana back from all that Q spam.

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

I disagree, he can do what he did before, he just has crit in his build now for free which can then be used to get mana back. It speeds his build up not needing to go tear.

Zair UmbrasOct 31, 20151 votes

No, he can't do what he did before. He doesn't get get the mana back for free unless he has something to AA. You used to get Essence so you wouldn't NEED tear to begin with, mainly because Muramana was such a subpar item since it drained your mana to begin with.

The loss of mana return when pressing Q is a large hit to his early to mid game when you'd be picking up the Essence while the Trinity Force lost a bit of its power to get the 20% crit. Sure, the combo is now incredible for Corki since they made Corki's passive crit again, but they didn't add any crit interaction to Ez, so now he's building a stat that he used to never touch, like... Ever.

Building Crit on Ez is like.. It's like going a GP build without crit. It doesn't have the same potential and it feels so horribly wrong. x.x

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

If you are talking about the blue build then sure.. maybe its gana feel awk. As for ADC ezreal, trinity force is core and it synergies well with Essence reaver.

Zair UmbrasOct 31, 20151 votes

ADC Ezreal didn't exactly rush an IE after trinity. Essence by itself was good, then a BT and you'd sustain poke since your Q's were already doing most of your damage. Toss in some CDR boots and with an Essence, 5% flat CDR and 5% scaling plus the 5% from Masteries, you had maxed CDR with just your Essence Reave and CDR boots and your Q's returned their mana. Now you can get the CDR with just the Essence and Trinity without CDR anywhere else, but you don't return mana on your Q and your Q does about 30 less base damage and that only gets worse as you go into your build and it's being exchanged for Crit.

It all just feels horribly awkward. Before, you poked targets down and kept your distance with your Q and E plus high CDR, AA'ing CC'd targets and staying as safe as possible. Now you can't really play that sort of safe. Your poke is about the same if you throw it every 2ish seconds with the Deathfire keystone, but in an actual AA fight? You have no crit interaction in your entire kit. Draven scales off of high AD and crit chance. Every other ADC has some kind of large interaction between their kits and crit or being a raw damage AA'er in general. Ez has never been that type of ADC. He used to out duel ADC's when his W slowed AS, then he did it by kiting them and staying out of range with his Q, which he did to really every target to be honest, and now he's having his power shifted out of his Q and into his AA's, meaning he's losing safety and having to do what other ADC's do. Normally, I'd be fine with that. Safety loss for damage, but there is no damage boost. Crit isn't going to make his Q hit any harder and he's got nothing in his kit other than a 50% AS steroid (Which every ADC pretty much has, plus other ADC's get to go with a PHantom Dancer to let them take less damage).

Ez is getting the short end of the stick and he feels so wrong because of it. Having to get crit on a champion who has never rushed crit, ever, is so wrong.

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

We aren't talking about I.E.

LankPantsOct 31, 20151 votes

It's strong on everyone ATM, 30% CDR off a single item is crazy and it gives crit to synergize with standard ADC builds. It seems stronger than BT on everyone right now, even Vayne and Kog since they pick up a Zeal it most of the time.

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

I agree, i was actually considering this item for Rengar for the stats.. The time it would take to get the CDR though is a little discouraging though cause tiamat is 100% mandatory lol.

Meep ManOct 31, 20151 votes

They are really strong because no one knows how to abuse their weaknesses yet. Its like putting a math problem in front of you that you have not been taught how to solve. You can't do it, so instead you have to learn how to do it. Then once you learn, you still might mess up, but if you play your cards right, you can definitely beat it. To put it simple like, if we were to consider champions bosses from other video games, it would be pretty poor design if you could immediately know EXACTLY how to deal with them and not need to worry any bit.

Plus, no offense, but majority of the PBE players aren't incredibly good.

DreadlocksOct 31, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHZEiy8U,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-10-31T14:54:26.951+0000)

Plus, no offense, but majority of the PBE players aren't incredibly good.

aaaaaaaaand you are? =]

FebruAhriOct 31, 20151 votes

Well, they did reduce the big AP items except for rabadon down to 100 AP (from 120)

Vistha KaiOct 31, 20151 votes

You seem to forget that an average ADC build will now have 90% crit chance, don't you?

A Miss FortuneOct 31, 20151 votes

As an ADC main I have absolutely no idea what I'm gonna build on crit ADCs like Caitlyn, Miss Fortune, Ashe, etc anymore I'm just gonna go with everybody else and stack 6 Bloodthirsters.

LankPantsOct 31, 20151 votes

As an ADC main I have absolutely no idea what I'm gonna build on crit ADCs like Caitlyn, Miss Fortune, Ashe, etc

IE+PD+Deaths Dance+LW upgrade (if they have tanks)/BT (if not)+Essence Reaver+Rapid Fire/SS/Hurricane(selling boots)

IMO these are the best items for a crit centric build right now, You get ~~90%+ Crit~~ it's always 100%, not even RNG anymore, 40% CDR, a huge chunk of damage reduction, crazy life steal and all the normal ADC passives.

I'm just gonna go with everybody else and stack 6 Bloodthirsters.

I doubt that will go live, but it's sub optimal anyway.

A Miss FortuneOct 31, 20151 votes

Wait so we still build IE first?

Also what would be a viable way to reach around 80% - 100% crit. For champions like Miss Fortune I feel like having crits (especially for things like her ult) will pay off more than other champions.

LankPantsOct 31, 20151 votes

Wait so we still build IE first?

I think so. It's not been long enough to really tell yet though. It could also be Essence Reaver though.

Also what would be a viable way to reach around 80% - 100% crit. For champions like Miss Fortune I feel like having crits (especially for things like her ult) will pay off more than other champions.

You won't reach until super late game but you can build item 3031 , item 3046 , item 3508 and another item 3086 item and you'll cap out your crit.

LankPantsOct 31, 20151 votes

ADCs lose out a little on AD, but it's not a huge deal.

There's a lot better multiplier items now, crit, CDR and AS are all super easy to itemise. There's also the +15% damage VS tanks and bruisers item, which is a huge gain in damage.

ADCs also gained a lot of value in defensive items, Deaths Dance is amongst the most powerful options for ADCs, it basically removes 20% of burst and allows them to lifesteal drain it off as bleed damage, combine that with PD's -12% damage reduction and you get a very resilient carry. Maw and Scimitar also got huge buffs as anti-mage items, they both gained lifesteal which allows the ADC using them to LS back up after surviving burst.

ADCs are strong because they have a ton of synergistic effects, none of them are that powerful alone, but when you combine them it's insane.

AHeroNamedHawkeOct 31, 20151 votes

And every other item in the game just got nerfed

Lady HammerlockOct 31, 20151 votes

well here are somethings to compensate phantom dancer and deaths dance make adcs tankier and giving them offensive power mid game adcs like corki benefited heavily from the cdr that item 3078 and item 3508 (while also giving mana sustain) last whisper is more effective vs tanks now since the passive basically only affects whatever armor runes the enemy squishy is using a lot of the adc changes where really strong graves is tankier then other adcs while dishing tons of burst dmg quinn well she is like normal quinn they just traded early game power for late game combo burst with a triple passive proc miss fortune benefits from switching targets and her ult+essence reaver basically means tons of mana corki is now actually can't argue best mid game adc ever his double type dmg makes him difficult to build against the shred from his E is still decent and a power spike every 5 min(or another rumble ult every 5 min basically) kog maw is annoying you basically lose a 1 vs 1 against late game kog and his ult is a very powerful execute(but less poke power) caitlyn again with combos and can dish long range dmg and deal good dmg with some of her abilities(however her new mechanics can feel clunky if your not used to it)

Sire HippingtonOct 31, 20151 votes

it's 75 for BT and Mercurial, and far more crit/cdr going around, aswell as far more lifesteal. BC and frozen mallet become actually worth getting on certain adc with the higher ad and for FM also lower costs

Yes, carrys loose ~25-35 ad lategame, maybe a bit more if due masteries, but they gain a tone of lifesteal, more utillity, and about 20%more crit on an average built, which evens out the ad loss alot. And for as, gaining 20% on crit and 5% more from bots easily evens out the lower AS on SS/PD

The really bad thing is that this not only leads to adc become even more dominant, but lower ad means less value off ad-scaleings, lower AS means less value of on-hit, so what remains is rightclicking your opponents and praying to the unholy gods of rng while ignoreing your kit, unless it has some crit involving mechanics or ABSURD scaleings.. All while ad-casters loose out on those high ad items, bruisers loos out on as, non ap scaleing on-hit take a hit aswell, and non of them can make good use off the increased crit that is given as compensation.

So in the end, adc come out with ~even dps and better utillity/sustain, while everyone else gets nerfed -> net gain for adc