What would win rates be like with no items?

DonnieDarkin·Mar 24, 2017·1 votes·404 views

If you pit people against each other in 5v5 matches where they could not by weapons or armor, but they could buy wards, what would the win rate look like?

I think this would be very telling. Lets say the win rate gap closes between 2 champions, but then with items one champion does much better than the other that he had a similar win rate to without items. This would indicate that items are effecting the balance of the game more than kits.

Or,lets say that the win rate between champions widens without items. This would indicated that kit powers are very far removed from each other and items are what balances it all out.

I know some of you will post and try to lecture me, but this experiment would provide valuable data for balancing the game.

15 Comments

k wìxMar 24, 20174 votes

Some champions scale harder/better with items than others - this invalidates your entire experiment.

Steroids bring much less value, upfront burst and early game dominance become important. Champions with BUILT-IN scaling like Veigar or Nasus become gods. All the points you are trying to make on the balance front are already well established.

Items already effect the balance of league WAY more than champion kits. **This is by design, and it should not change. **

Mizuki ZahraMar 24, 20172 votes

Chogath Kindred Rengar also would become a huge problem lol late game op

k wìxMar 24, 20172 votes

Yep!

DonnieDarkinMar 24, 20171 votes

Yeah but...they have access to the same items!

Mizuki ZahraMar 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you pit people against each other in 5v5 matches where they could not by weapons or armor, but they could buy wards, what would the win rate look like?

they don't need items they just stack and stack a nasus with 600 stacks in a game where I cant buy items means he can one shot me or veigar with 2000 ap from stacks can ult me to death as well

DonnieDarkinMar 24, 20171 votes

"This is by design, and it should not change"

I actually believe items don't do enough to make champions feel different from each other. Too many general items that give too many stats, makes the difference between many champions seem less noticeable.

k wìxMar 26, 20171 votes

You might like DOTA a fair amount more than league, then. Watch out for that learning curve, though!

Ultimately, I agree with your point here - I'd really like to see items not only become more diverse, but allow champions to be played in new and exciting ways.

**The problem is that generally becomes extremely difficult to balance. ** An item that lets Ashe become more mobile and harder to catch might be perfect and offer a 'new and exciting way to play her' ... but it then makes Kalista absolutely broken. I know a lot of people are quick to rail league for balance issues, but in my humble opinion it is one of the most balanced and well-designed mobas you can play.

The reason items are 'simplistic' in nature is because its easy to tell what they do and what you get out of them. Compare the items with DOTA and its insane how much more complex they are - not that its a bad thing per say, just a different approach to it.

I am PacmanMar 24, 20172 votes

I think this would be very telling

I don't. Every champion is designed to function with a steady increase in gold and thus items. Never mind the fact that snowballing would almost not exist without items which means everyone's playstyle would be super aggressive (no one would cs) and always fight because their is no benefit to not fighting.

If everyone was just using base damages then whoever has the highest early game base dmg would be op. Pantheon and Annie would probably do well.

DonnieDarkinMar 24, 20171 votes

Pantheon an Annie already do well. Pantheon has a win rate close to 54% The question is, in this experiment, would it stay that high or go higher?

CochoMar 24, 20172 votes

Heroes of the storm is like this. I hate how you can't make a meaningful build. It feels good to be rewarded for your knowledge of building well.

It would also become alot harder to carry a game. Especially in a moba. There's only so much you could do.

The sides from this, are that cs no longer matters. Gold isn't a thing. Just experience. I don't really like it. I like the small things in league that make it a larger skill gap.

Junglers would be there just for experience. Which would kinda bring up the question if that's even worth it in league vs heroes of the storm. Just a bunch of people running everywhere fighting for objectives lol.

k wìxMar 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Heroes of the storm is like this. I hate how you can't make a meaningful build. It feels good to be rewarded for your knowledge of building well.

YES! I've never seen anyone summarize one of my biggest criticisms of HOTS so well - it becomes especially bad once you figure out the best general build path. It never feels like i can put any personality into what i'm playing.

JbelsMar 24, 20172 votes

The game is balanced around items. Removing them entirely would not only cause every champion to feel sluggish and wrong, but it wouldn't tell you anything. You removed every champion's most important aspect, their item build. Knowing which champions interact too strongly with which items is how the game should be balanced

DonnieDarkinMar 24, 20171 votes

"Sluggish and wrong" is a relative term based on what we are used to.